Is anyone still upset about the Perk trade?

[Interceptor]

I think you're shifting the field goals there to make your point. I am not arguing that 'a championship run was derailed by losing Perkins/Nate'. I'm arguing that the team played worse without Perkins than they would have, got very little in retrospect for a piece that clearly has and had value, and likely would have been better served by simply letting him expire.

We could've landed David West if Perkins had been let to expire, then S&T'd to another team with our only asset gained being a trade exception. How is that not better?

As I said: "And if we're not talking about a championship, there's precious little else to judge to move by, because Ainge is not paying Perk what OKC did, and there's no telling that he'd be able to get an equivalent to better offer in a S&T."

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, as they say. Expiring contracts are worth something, but we couldn't get anything out of Sheed's, and trade exceptions are worth something, but we didn't get anything out of MD's. Ainge had a deal on the table, it was a good one, and he rightly took it.

You say it's likely that they get better value, but I don't see how you've made that point even in retrospect. Who takes Perk except OKC?

Well, now I also you're the one who is making a bit of a leap of faith.

A) A 20th overall pick in an allegedly 'stacked' draft means absolutely squat unless the pick/trade pans out. Its a wait and see situation, but it is without question that the value of the asset has dropped significantly since the Clippers acquired Chris Paul.

B) 'regardless of his problems'? Regardless of his problems (and by that, I mean before his heart condition was revealed), Jeff Green was a very unknown quantity going forward, at least for the Celtics. If they weren't going to pay Perkins long-term, why in the world were they going to pay Green beyond the qualifying offer, at least with what he has shown in the NBA up until this point?

Then, factor in the heart condition, and factor in the Celtics' priorities (cap room, cap room, cap room), and factor in Green's demands (long-term money, for sure. this was supposed to be his payday). Whether or not the Celtics are ever going to see Green play another game in green is far from a settled issue.

This is no leap of faith. It doesn't matter that the value of the pick has dropped, since it's not hard for a 1st round pick to be better than a handful of thin air, which is what you risk by letting Perk walk.

Green is no lock, for sure, but we do have a shot at him. This association has its claws in him now, he's free of OKC (and not going back), and other teams are just as aware of his production and heart condition as we are. Maybe someone will give him a huge payday, maybe he's considered damaged goods and we can overpay him on a short contract to give him a chance to prove himself. The point here is that without The Trade, we don't even have this chance.

And these two things, as I said, are better than "keeping the band together", something that holds very little value in my opinion.

[indeedproceed]

So basically it comes down to: "We got something, and that's better than nothing, and we risked getting nothing if we let Perkins walk."

Or, in terms my mother would use, "I know you wanted pizza for dinner, but this is what you got. You should be happy, some kids don't have anything!"

[BballTim]

The second one is clearly not true. We now know how the move played out. It played out worse than an Ashlee Simpson live performance when the juke box is on the fritz.

Nope - still disagree with this premise. Kendrick Perkins is hurting the Thunder on the court. The number bear this out. He hurt the team last year when he was on the court - which was only a little due to an injury. And on top of that, he's signed for, what, 3 more years at big money? I still say that getting a draft pick for that is worth it.

  The team's 0.3 ppp worse with Perk playing than on the bench this year. With the sample size, one good or bad 5 minute stretch will push that number positive or negative. I don't think I'd call that hurting the team.

[Moranis]

Knicks?

EDIT: Also, the 7 million the OKC thunder had in free space seems a lot like the 7.8 contract Perkins signed.

Perkins signed a 7.1 million dollar contract (at least that is what ESPN and Hoopshype have) and OKC is over the cap by about a million.  So, essentially if OKC waived Green and Krstic it would have had about 6.1 million in cap space to offer to Perkins in his first year.  And I don't see OKC giving up its rights to Green (probably Krstic, but you never know there either).  Again, no where near an 8 million dollar trade exception coming from OKC.  

The Knicks had no cap space until they amnestied Billups and they only did that once they had agreed to terms with Chandler.  I don't think the Knicks waive Billups for Perkins, especially with the much better player in Chandler available.  

[Interceptor]

So basically it comes down to: "We got something, and that's better than nothing, and we risked getting nothing if we let Perkins walk."

That's what it basically boils down to. If you're Danny Ainge, The Trade gives you healthy players for the current season, a shot at Krstic, a shot at Jeff Green, and a pick that might be anywhere from amazing in a handful of years to mediocre right away if the Clippers suddenly get good. Numerous chances of upside, here.

Perk turned down the offer of an extension. Maybe nobody expected him to take it, but the C's also didn't have to offer it to him, either. There is every expectation that Perkins would be cooperative with a S&T at season's end, surely this was in everyone's possibly gameplan. But the issue isn't setting up the sale, it's finding a buyer, and then doing something with the "asset". Even in retrospect you are having trouble coming up with a viable path to offseason success, so how does this look to Danny in February 2011 when there isn't even, say, the hint of the Hornets trading their franchise player and giving West all the reason he needs to skip town?  Etc.

Or, in terms my mother would use, "I know you wanted pizza for dinner, but this is what you got. You should be happy, some kids don't have anything!"

I guess that the only works as analogy if your choice was between something that might be tasty but is guaranteed to exist, or something that might be pizza or might be "you go to bed hungry". Because that's the situation that the C's were in. It's not like Ainge is asking us to swallow the bitter Perkins Pill because the Nets are a disaster, the reasoning is entirely contained in our own organization.

[Celtics4ever]

Does he have a heart condition?  Is Perkins playing on a club right now and contributing?

He is not the same player he was in 08.  The knee injury stole a lot of his lift.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9q8jsVQnNk

[Roy H.]

Knicks?

EDIT: Also, the 7 million the OKC thunder had in free space seems a lot like the 7.8 contract Perkins signed.

Perkins signed a 7.1 million dollar contract (at least that is what ESPN and Hoopshype have) and OKC is over the cap by about a million.  So, essentially if OKC waived Green and Krstic it would have had about 6.1 million in cap space to offer to Perkins in his first year.  And I don't see OKC giving up its rights to Green (probably Krstic, but you never know there either).  Again, no where near an 8 million dollar trade exception coming from OKC.  

OKC also wouldn't have Nate Robinson's $4 million contract on the books.  They would have had just over $10 million in cap space, and around $12 million more if they declined the non-guaranteed contracts of Royal Ivey and Ryan Reid.

[BballTim]

Knicks?

EDIT: Also, the 7 million the OKC thunder had in free space seems a lot like the 7.8 contract Perkins signed.

Perkins signed a 7.1 million dollar contract (at least that is what ESPN and Hoopshype have) and OKC is over the cap by about a million.  So, essentially if OKC waived Green and Krstic it would have had about 6.1 million in cap space to offer to Perkins in his first year.  And I don't see OKC giving up its rights to Green (probably Krstic, but you never know there either).  Again, no where near an 8 million dollar trade exception coming from OKC.   

  So we saw OKC trade Green, Krstic and a first rounder for Perk but you don't think that they'd renounce those same players to sign Perk? They'd still be a first round draft pick better if they did.

[PosImpos]

The second one is clearly not true. We now know how the move played out. It played out worse than an Ashlee Simpson live performance when the juke box is on the fritz.

Nope - still disagree with this premise. Kendrick Perkins is hurting the Thunder on the court. The number bear this out. He hurt the team last year when he was on the court - which was only a little due to an injury. And on top of that, he's signed for, what, 3 more years at big money? I still say that getting a draft pick for that is worth it.

  The team's 0.3 ppp worse with Perk playing than on the bench this year. With the sample size, one good or bad 5 minute stretch will push that number positive or negative. I don't think I'd call that hurting the team.

It's worth noting, however, that he doesn't seem to make them noticeably better, at least based on that metric.  But I'm not a huge fan of +/-.

[Interceptor]

So we saw OKC trade Green, Krstic and a first rounder for Perk but you don't think that they'd renounce those same players to sign Perk? They'd still be a first round draft pick better if they did.

I'll go you one better: if Presti doesn't deal for Perk, why does he sit on his assets until the offseason when Perk hits the market? That's a risk for him, too. Green and Krstic are expiring, that lottery-protected Clippers 1st-rounder is still looking pretty good in February 2011, and he wants a defensive-minded Center for his team. He's not getting D-Howard, but the bar is set pretty low when we're talking about Stonehands, here.

[TheTruthFot18]

The second one is clearly not true.

nope.jpg

Your second statement is in no way, shape, or form a settled point. Anyone who argues that our championship run was derailed by the loss of Perkins/Nate, instead of, you know, injuries, has a steep hill to climb. Because I'm goign to see your "Perkins", and raise you a "no Shaq" and a "one-armed Rondo", and I like my chances.

And if we're not talking about a championship, there's precious little else to judge to move by, because Ainge is not paying Perk what OKC did, and there's no telling that he'd be able to get an equivalent to better offer in a S&T.

Turns out, it would've been a lot better to let Perkins expire and keep the band together.

I'll take the 1st round pick in a stacked 2012 draft, and a fair chance that we get Green back regardless of his problems, over some warm fuzzies.

TP and very valid point to the trade hating here. We lost our starting center BUT we had 2 already, 1 in return, and this starter was just coming off a major injury which was by no means cured.

In a miracle world where perk and green were both healthy a whole season, we would be better off without a doubt. Not to mention a 1st rounder (but who knew the clips of all teams would be the next super team).

Perk was walking so at best we get a another big man in FA who most likely wouldnt have the talent of a perk or green to make it worth it.

[rondohondo]

It really is mind boggling how people on this site think that Perkins guaranteed the c's a championship last year or even just getting by the Heat. The guy is a very limited role player . It's like saying if the Heat in the mid 90's traded Kurt Thomas they would have been giving up a huge piece of a championship team( I realize they didn't win a ring, but that is a close comparison )

Plus Perk was coming off a major injury, he has even less mobility and athleticism than he has in 2008 (even then he was very limited ). He got destroyed by Gasol/ Randolph and Dirk/Chandler in the playoffs .

He can guard guys one on one in the low post, but that's about all he offers at this point. He doesn't rebound, score, is very slow on rotations these days and is making 8 mil a year


wow Celticsblog needs to come to reality a little bit

The dude is an overpaid stiff with bad knees

Thank you Danny ! you got what you could and it is the best package he could get .

I mean people on here were saying they wouldn't trade Rondo for CP3 for the past couple years 

Take off those green goggles people , it really is pathetic how fans on here think anyone who wears the c's jersey is and all-star or a key piece to a championship

Posey was finishing games in 2008 with KG at C, not Perk ...

[GreenFaith1819]

I think with that Grif dunk, Perk didn't get the opportunity to really jump/react to it.

We're talking about a pin-point pass from CP3, here...I see him right up there with Nash, Magic, Stockton, Kidd, Rondo (Yes, Rondo) - as far as passers.

I think that if Perk would've had another second or two to react, he would've stopped that dunk from going through by either fouling Grif and grabbing him or blocking it.

He is still a very good defensive center, and he's considerably lighter than before (he's down to what? 260 now?)

Knowing Perk, he's already getting ready for the next Clips game.

[ScoobyDoo]

Perkins had lift?

[GreenFaith1819]

Perkins had lift?

Sure did -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSSoeo7_ojA

Great timing, too.

And this was when he carried 280 pounds on his frame.