Is anyone still upset about the Perk trade?

[indeedproceed]

.It really is mind boggling how people on this site think that Perkins guaranteed the c's a championship last year or even just getting by the Heat. The guy is a very limited role player . It's like saying if the Heat in the mid 90's traded Kurt Thomas they would have been giving up a huge piece of a championship team( I realize they didn't win a ring, but that is a close comparison )  

It's mind boggling people are still saying this kind of stuff, when nobody...absolutely nobody is saying perkns would've guaranteed a championship. Heck, nobody is even saying Perkins would've guaranteed a second round win.

[rondohondo]

.It really is mind boggling how people on this site think that Perkins guaranteed the c's a championship last year or even just getting by the Heat. The guy is a very limited role player . It's like saying if the Heat in the mid 90's traded Kurt Thomas they would have been giving up a huge piece of a championship team( I realize they didn't win a ring, but that is a close comparison )  

It's mind boggling people are still saying this kind of stuff, when nobody...absolutely nobody is saying perkns would've guaranteed a championship. Heck, nobody is even saying Perkins would've guaranteed a second round win.

ok so if Perk wouldn't have guaranteed any of these things why are we still talking about him ? The C's got a 1st round draft pick out of the deal at worst.  Thank god they didn't s+ t him for David West because that wouldn't have helped us win a title this year either and would have just eaten up precious cap space for the rebuilding that will have to take place next year .

And actually yea there are quite a few people on here who are saying Danny gave up the 2011 season by trading Perk....

[LooseCannon]

I think it is a shame that Perk was damaged goods so that Ainge couldn't trade him in the summer of 2011.

[GreenFaith1819]

.It really is mind boggling how people on this site think that Perkins guaranteed the c's a championship last year or even just getting by the Heat. The guy is a very limited role player . It's like saying if the Heat in the mid 90's traded Kurt Thomas they would have been giving up a huge piece of a championship team( I realize they didn't win a ring, but that is a close comparison )  

It's mind boggling people are still saying this kind of stuff, when nobody...absolutely nobody is saying perkns would've guaranteed a championship. Heck, nobody is even saying Perkins would've guaranteed a second round win.

ok so if Perk wouldn't have guaranteed any of these things why are we still talking about him ? The C's got a 1st round draft pick out of the deal at worst.  Thank god they didn't s+ t him for David West because that wouldn't have helped us win a title this year either and would have just eaten up precious cap space for the rebuilding that will have to take place next year .

And actually yea there are quite a few people on here who are saying Danny gave up the 2011 season by trading Perk....

Rondo - I just think that a lot of us here still have a soft spot for him even now, that's all.

I think, looking back, that BOTH teams make out here.

IMO, we weren't winning much with Perk being hobbled like he was late last yr. Danny traded him, and we got back good value.

The BIGGEST plus out of all this is Jeff Green. Our team caught his medical condition.

IF we would've received Harden, would OKC have examined Jeff like we did? Probably not...what reason would they have had to?

I shudder to think about what would've happened to Jeff if he had played this year without it being caught.

So all works out in the end. As heartbroken as I was to see that trade, Perk is in a good place, and Danny got back good value for him.

[Celtics Fan]

Yep we can't beat the sorry Cavs. We suck

[Moranis]

Knicks?

EDIT: Also, the 7 million the OKC thunder had in free space seems a lot like the 7.8 contract Perkins signed.

Perkins signed a 7.1 million dollar contract (at least that is what ESPN and Hoopshype have) and OKC is over the cap by about a million.  So, essentially if OKC waived Green and Krstic it would have had about 6.1 million in cap space to offer to Perkins in his first year.  And I don't see OKC giving up its rights to Green (probably Krstic, but you never know there either).  Again, no where near an 8 million dollar trade exception coming from OKC.   

  So we saw OKC trade Green, Krstic and a first rounder for Perk but you don't think that they'd renounce those same players to sign Perk? They'd still be a first round draft pick better if they did.

based on the Perk that played down the stretch, I don't think they would've renounced Green just to sign him. 

There is also a chance they trade Green somewhere else. 

[BballTim]

Knicks?

EDIT: Also, the 7 million the OKC thunder had in free space seems a lot like the 7.8 contract Perkins signed.

Perkins signed a 7.1 million dollar contract (at least that is what ESPN and Hoopshype have) and OKC is over the cap by about a million.  So, essentially if OKC waived Green and Krstic it would have had about 6.1 million in cap space to offer to Perkins in his first year.  And I don't see OKC giving up its rights to Green (probably Krstic, but you never know there either).  Again, no where near an 8 million dollar trade exception coming from OKC.   

  So we saw OKC trade Green, Krstic and a first rounder for Perk but you don't think that they'd renounce those same players to sign Perk? They'd still be a first round draft pick better if they did.

based on the Perk that played down the stretch, I don't think they would've renounced Green just to sign him. 

There is also a chance they trade Green somewhere else. 

  So they'll trade for someone who's unable to play because of a knee injury that he sustained while attempting a comeback from a  major knee injury, but they'd refuse to pick him up at a lower price because he was playing like someone coming back from a knee injury? I doubt it. They knew he wasn't going to be playing that well last year when they traded for him and they knew he wouldn't be playing that well last year when they signed him to his extension.

[indeedproceed]

. And actually yea there are quite a few people on here who are saying Danny gave up the 2011 season by trading Perk....  

But were not talking about 'the 2011 season', we were talking about a championship, and nobody is saying that, and I don't even know of anyone saying 'giving up the 2011 season'.

I believe Perkins would've helped the celtics down the stretch and would've given them better odds of beating the heat. I don't think that's really refutable. It means rondo never gets in a funk because of Perkins, the starters play with more chemistry, and maybe, the celtics don't drop the first two games against the heat.

I'm not saying he's the difference in the series, but he gives them a better shot than kristic and green did.

On top of all that however, I think the reason people are still willing to talk about this is the pushback from both sides. I'd say Perkins is a fairly limited role player who brought more to the Cs with his toughness, attitude, and lockerroom presence than he did with his fairly modest god-given talent. I accept and endorse the fact that the Cs werent going to pay him long term. And, I understand and accept that Danny Ainge felt he had to make a move when he did.

The thing I don't accept however was that this was somehow a 'good move' in retrospect. It wasn't. In retrospect, we got zero probable long-term keepers and an 'okay' asset in a mid20s draft pick.

[LarBrd33]

In retrospect it completely killed us as a contender.

I was initially in support of the trade based on the assumption that Ainge had some kind of strong confirmation that Shaq was going to return from his injury.  We had been excellent with Shaq in the lineup and i could see the logic of moving Perk before he left for a stud like Jeff Green.

Unfortunately Jeff Green never got his footing here.  Shaq never came back.  Green got injured... and we're prolonging mediocrity right now by stalling on blowing it up.   Aint no fun.

[anotherbanner]

 I was at the time the trade was made, when we were head and shoulders above the rest of the league. I understand that we needed a guy to give PP minutes on the bench when 'Quis went down for the rest of the season. We thought we had that guy plus someone young to maybe build our future around, but it didn't work out that way. So yeah, at the time, I was upset.

[soap07]

  The team's 0.3 ppp worse with Perk playing than on the bench this year. With the sample size, one good or bad 5 minute stretch will push that number positive or negative. I don't think I'd call that hurting the team.

Fine. I hate +/- anyways - can I use his awful PER, rebounding and FG%?

I believe Perkins would've helped the celtics down the stretch and would've given them better odds of beating the heat. I don't think that's really refutable. It means rondo never gets in a funk because of Perkins, the starters play with more chemistry, and maybe, the celtics don't drop the first two games against the heat.

I'm sorry - I'm a little flabbergasted. This isn't refutable? Perkins missed a significant amount of time after the injury and then played like garbage when he came back. It is irrefutable to you that Perkins gave the C's a better chance? Really?

The thing I don't accept however was that this was somehow a 'good move' in retrospect. It wasn't. In retrospect, we got zero probable long-term keepers and an 'okay' asset in a mid20s draft pick.

If your point is that the Celtics should have received more for Perkins, I understand. I am not under the impression that the rest of the league really would've valued Perkins, with that injury, that much more. The other options were resigning him (disastrous) or letting him walk away for nothing. We got something. He's pretty much offering less than nothing on the court right now. At worst, the trade was a wash.

[BballTim]

  The team's 0.3 ppp worse with Perk playing than on the bench this year. With the sample size, one good or bad 5 minute stretch will push that number positive or negative. I don't think I'd call that hurting the team.

Fine. I hate +/- anyways - can I use his awful PER, rebounding and FG%?

  Sure. I guess I was giving you more credit than I should have. If you completely ignore what happens on the defensive end of the court then, yes, he hurts the team.

[indeedproceed]

  I'm sorry - I'm a little flabbergasted. This isn't refutable? Perkins missed a significant amount of time after the injury and then played like garbage when he came back. It is irrefutable to you that Perkins gave the C's a better chance? Really?   

Yes. The starting center whose departure severely rattled the teams' best player by his own admission not leaving gives the Cs a better chance.

Yes, the longtime starter and critical defensive cog who had a deep rapport on and off the court with the other 4 best players through 4 seasons, two finals, and a championship still being on the team gives them a better chance.

Yes, the longtime starter who would have also been the most healthy viable option at center still being on the team would've given the Cs a better chance.

As I said...irrefutable.

[PosImpos]

 I'm sorry - I'm a little flabbergasted. This isn't refutable? Perkins missed a significant amount of time after the injury and then played like garbage when he came back. It is irrefutable to you that Perkins gave the C's a better chance? Really?  

Yes. The starting center whose departure severely rattled the teams' best player by his own admission not leaving gives the Cs a better chance.

Yes, the longtime starter and critical defensive cog who had a deep rapport on and off the court with the other 4 best players through 4 seasons, two finals, and a championship still being on the team gives them a better chance.

Yes, the longtime starter who would have also been the most healthy viable option at center still being on the team would've given the Cs a better chance.

As I said...irrefutable.

Perhaps it's irrefutable that the team would be better, simply because our depth at center is so pathetic.

However, there could definitely be disagreement over whether adding Perk to this team (or last year's playoff team, for that matter) would really put them that much closer to contention.

[indeedproceed]

It's irrefutable that he helps out the Cs how much help is surely in contention, and unknowable.