Is anyone still upset about the Perk trade?

[Roy H.]

I'm not super impressed with some of the tone in this thread.  Cool it with the sarcasm and condescension, please.

[indeedproceed]

The second one is clearly not true.

nope.jpg

Your second statement is in no way, shape, or form a settled point. Anyone who argues that our championship run was derailed by the loss of Perkins/Nate, instead of, you know, injuries, has a steep hill to climb. Because I'm goign to see your "Perkins", and raise you a "no Shaq" and a "one-armed Rondo", and I like my chances.

And if we're not talking about a championship, there's precious little else to judge to move by, because Ainge is not paying Perk what OKC did, and there's no telling that he'd be able to get an equivalent to better offer in a S&T.

I think you're shifting the field goals there to make your point. I am not arguing that 'a championship run was derailed by losing Perkins/Nate'. I'm arguing that the team played worse without Perkins than they would have, got very little in retrospect for a piece that clearly has and had value, and likely would have been better served by simply letting him expire.

We could've landed David West if Perkins had been let to expire, then S&T'd to another team with our only asset gained being a trade exception. How is that not better?

Turns out, it would've been a lot better to let Perkins expire and keep the band together.

I'll take the 1st round pick in a stacked 2012 draft, and a fair chance that we get Green back regardless of his problems, over some warm fuzzies.

Well, now I also you're the one who is making a bit of a leap of faith.

A) A 20th overall pick in an allegedly 'stacked' draft means absolutely squat unless the pick/trade pans out. Its a wait and see situation, but it is without question that the value of the asset has dropped significantly since the Clippers acquired Chris Paul.

B) 'regardless of his problems'? Regardless of his problems (and by that, I mean before his heart condition was revealed), Jeff Green was a very unknown quantity going forward, at least for the Celtics. If they weren't going to pay Perkins long-term, why in the world were they going to pay Green beyond the qualifying offer, at least with what he has shown in the NBA up until this point?

Then, factor in the heart condition, and factor in the Celtics' priorities (cap room, cap room, cap room), and factor in Green's demands (long-term money, for sure. this was supposed to be his payday). Whether or not the Celtics are ever going to see Green play another game in green is far from a settled issue.

[Moranis]

I think its important to note that these are two very different statements:

1) It seemed like a good move at the time.

2) It was the right move.

The second one is clearly not true. We now know how the move played out. It played out worse than an Ashlee Simpson live performance when the juke box is on the fritz.

The first one is much more ambiguous. All things being equal, we should've gotten a 1-yr rental at the backup 5 (whether Krstic was bolting is irrelevant. We knew we weren't resigning him. He was a band-aid), a replacement at the backup 3 for Daniels, and a possible Pierce replacement long-term, and a draft pick in the next couple of years that was lottery protected. On top of that, the Celtics got a guy in Green, who, as long as he accepted the QO (which he did), wasn't going to tie them up long-term if they didn't want him to, but they could still evaluate him this season.

For a guy like Perkins who wasn't healthy last year and wasn't going to get truly healthy even if the Celtics made the Finals that they were going to lose at the end of the year anyways, it wasn't a terrible deal. I trusted Danny that it was the best one out there.

Turns out, it would've been a lot better to let Perkins expire and keep the band together.

I don't think you can say that at all.  We still could have easily lost in the second round to the Heat and would be in a worse position now.  

Also, people don't seem to recall the Celtics were 5-0 in the five games after the trade.  The day before the trade Boston was the #1 seed by a game on the Heat.  It lost the game the day of the trade with essentially a 9 man team to be at a half game up for the 1 seed.  After the 5 game winning streak Boston was the #1 seed by 3 games with the Bulls now at #2.  After the 5 game win streak old age started to catch up and the team was hit with even more injuries.

The reality is the Celtics were just an old team whose only shot at beating the Heat was a healthy team.  Perfect health didn't happen and the better younger team won.  Had Boston beaten Miami, even without Perk, it probably would have beaten Chicago and Dallas, but it just couldn't beat Miami and a healthy Perk doesn't change that (a healthy Shaq might have).  

[indeedproceed]

I don't think you can say that at all.  We still could have easily lost in the second round to the Heat and would be in a worse position now. 

We could've landed David West if Perkins had been let to expire, then S&T'd to another team with our only asset gained being a trade exception. How is that not better?

[soap07]

The second one is clearly not true. We now know how the move played out. It played out worse than an Ashlee Simpson live performance when the juke box is on the fritz.

Nope - still disagree with this premise. Kendrick Perkins is hurting the Thunder on the court. The number bear this out. He hurt the team last year when he was on the court - which was only a little due to an injury. And on top of that, he's signed for, what, 3 more years at big money? I still say that getting a draft pick for that is worth it.

[indeedproceed]

The second one is clearly not true. We now know how the move played out. It played out worse than an Ashlee Simpson live performance when the juke box is on the fritz.

Nope - still disagree with this premise. Kendrick Perkins is hurting the Thunder on the court. The number bear this out. He hurt the team last year when he was on the court - which was only a little due to an injury. And on top of that, he's signed for, what, 3 more years at big money? I still say that getting a draft pick for that is worth it.

You're disagreeing with something I'm not saying and have never said. I'm not saying the Celtics should've re-signed Perkins. I'm saying the Celtics made the wrong trade, or should've let him expire and then S&T'd him for the trade exception at minimum.

[Moranis]

I don't think you can say that at all.  We still could have easily lost in the second round to the Heat and would be in a worse position now.  

We could've landed David West if Perkins had been let to expire, then S&T'd to another team with our only asset gained being a trade exception. How is that not better?

First, I don't think Perkins gets an 8 million + contract (he is just over 7.1 as is) this past off season after the poor showing he had down the stretch.  He was too much of an injury and failed to show he had anything.

Second, even if he did that contract, which team with cap room was going to sign him and agree to trade for him (OKC would have been slightly under the cap, but only if it let Green, Kristic, etc. go).  I mean the only way you get a trade exception is if you don't take back salary and the only way that happens is if the team is under the cap.  Thus, the odds of a trade exception of any reasonable size coming back to Boston was very slim (even if you could get a sign and trade of a big enough dollar figure).  

What was likely the only way to land West for Perkins would have been a three team trade where Perk goes to team 1, West goes to Boston, and whatever team 1 gives up goes to New Orleans, and that is so complicated I don't think it is realistic.  

[GreenFaith1819]

Admittedly? Yes I still miss the Big Fella. Hated seeing him flushed on like that by Griff, even if it was spectacular.

I understand the whys/hows about the trade, though. I think Jeff will be a good fit for us, as well as Perk a good fit for OKC.

Danny did what he had to do. He has (IMO) the hardest job in the NBA.

[SHAQATTACK]

Well my thought is this , bad as his stat sheet shows for his efforts at OKC..... I tell you this ....the CELTICS could sure use his body in the paint right now. and I'd be glade to have him right at this point in the season.

As Roy said , I would have played out the season with him on the team , then dumped him if he didn't come back to earth about his contract.

This said , I'm 100% sure I would not have wanted him locked in a contract with Boston for the money he wanted for 3 more years.

I still want him and his scowl on the team ... but ONLY as a back up and LOW RENT to boot....

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Perkins was one of my all time favorite Celtics, but I still like the trade.

Green and the Clipper pick could represent two solid pieces of a future contending team for the next 10 years.

Perkins is nearly a 9 year veteran with a history of knee issues. He is a role playing center to me. I would have loved to re-sign him in the $7-8 million range but not much more than that unless he produced more boards or points, or both.

I think you could get more impact out of that $10 million spending it on a player in a different position who is a borderline all star or off and on all star, as with Rondo's contract...

To me, Rondo is worth 11 million at his position, Perkins isn't.

Plus, making that move also at least puts us in the game for Dwight if he reaches free agency. If not Dwight, then others...

I think that when you're spending $10 mil+ a year on a guy, it has to be an impact guy. Teams that don't do this often get saddled with overpaid players.  

[indeedproceed]

I don't think you can say that at all.  We still could have easily lost in the second round to the Heat and would be in a worse position now.  

We could've landed David West if Perkins had been let to expire, then S&T'd to another team with our only asset gained being a trade exception. How is that not better?

First, I don't think Perkins gets an 8 million + contract this past off season after the poor showing he had down the stretch.  He was too much of an injury and failed to show he had anything.

Second, even if he did that contract, which team with cap room was going to sign him and agree to trade for him.  I mean the only way you get a trade exception is if you don't take back salary and the only way that happens is if the team is under the cap.  Thus, the odds of a trade exception of any reasonable size coming back to Boston was very slim (even if you could get a sign and trade of a big enough dollar figure).  

What was likely the only way to land West for Perkins would have been a three team trade where Perk goes to team 1, West goes to Boston, and whatever team 1 gives up goes to New Orleans, and that is so complicated I don't think it is realistic.  

The way it works is that a team with cap room agrees to sign Perkins to an amicable deal. Perkins agrees to a sign and trade, because he gets better terms if he signs like that. The team with cap room gets Kendrick perkins. The Celtics get a trade exception. Later, they'd use that trade exception on David West.

The Thunder, if they thought they could get Perkins for less, would've let him expire and become a free agent. They would've retained his bird rights.

I absolutely think Perkins could've found 8 million dollars a year on the open market.

[soap07]

I don't think you can say that at all.  We still could have easily lost in the second round to the Heat and would be in a worse position now.  

We could've landed David West if Perkins had been let to expire, then S&T'd to another team with our only asset gained being a trade exception. How is that not better?

First, I don't think Perkins gets an 8 million + contract this past off season after the poor showing he had down the stretch.  He was too much of an injury and failed to show he had anything.

Second, even if he did that contract, which team with cap room was going to sign him and agree to trade for him.  I mean the only way you get a trade exception is if you don't take back salary and the only way that happens is if the team is under the cap.  Thus, the odds of a trade exception of any reasonable size coming back to Boston was very slim (even if you could get a sign and trade of a big enough dollar figure).  

What was likely the only way to land West for Perkins would have been a three team trade where Perk goes to team 1, West goes to Boston, and whatever team 1 gives up goes to New Orleans, and that is so complicated I don't think it is realistic.  

The way it works is that a team with cap room agrees to sign Perkins to an amicable deal. Perkins agrees to a sign and trade, because he gets better terms if he signs like that. The team with cap room gets Kendrick perkins. The Celtics get a trade exception. Later, they'd use that trade exception on David West.

The Thunder, if they thought they could get Perkins for less, would've let him expire and become a free agent. They would've retained his bird rights.

I absolutely think Perkins could've found 8 million dollars a year on the open market.

I suppose this is where we'll agree to disagree. A. What team with cap space would waste it on Perk after the way he played in the second half last year? B. I just don't see him getting 8 mill. OKC overpaid and they're suffering for it now.

[Moranis]

I don't think you can say that at all.  We still could have easily lost in the second round to the Heat and would be in a worse position now.  

We could've landed David West if Perkins had been let to expire, then S&T'd to another team with our only asset gained being a trade exception. How is that not better?

First, I don't think Perkins gets an 8 million + contract this past off season after the poor showing he had down the stretch.  He was too much of an injury and failed to show he had anything.

Second, even if he did that contract, which team with cap room was going to sign him and agree to trade for him.  I mean the only way you get a trade exception is if you don't take back salary and the only way that happens is if the team is under the cap.  Thus, the odds of a trade exception of any reasonable size coming back to Boston was very slim (even if you could get a sign and trade of a big enough dollar figure).  

What was likely the only way to land West for Perkins would have been a three team trade where Perk goes to team 1, West goes to Boston, and whatever team 1 gives up goes to New Orleans, and that is so complicated I don't think it is realistic.  

The way it works is that a team with cap room agrees to sign Perkins to an amicable deal. Perkins agrees to a sign and trade, because he gets better terms if he signs like that. The team with cap room gets Kendrick perkins. The Celtics get a trade exception. Later, they'd use that trade exception on David West.

The Thunder, if they thought they could get Perkins for less, would've let him expire and become a free agent. They would've retained his bird rights.

I absolutely think Perkins could've found 8 million dollars a year on the open market.

I know how it works, but please tell me which team with 8+ million in cap room this past off season was going to sign Kendrick Perkins to that sort of contract.  None of the teams below the cap made any sort of sense as a destination for Perkins except Oklahoma City and they would have only had 7 million (or so) in cap room and only if they let Green and Kristic walk for nothing (and I don't see them not offering Green at a minimum the QO).  

The Celtics weren't going to get a trade exception much greater than the MLE (if they got one at all), which would have been an alright chip, but certainly not enough to land David West (who signed at about 10 million a year) and that certainly has less value than a first round pick (and possibly Jeff Green).  

[indeedproceed]

Knicks?

EDIT: Also, the 7 million the OKC thunder had in free space seems a lot like the 7.8 contract Perkins signed.

[2short]

I'm upset a good backup center in krstic left, upset Green had his "injury".
I still think it was a lopsided trade if the above 2 things didn't happen (draft pick bonus) .  I like Perk as a hard working player, not worth big money though.  Plays good post defense, if his rebounding numbers were close to 10 a game I could live with his other weak spots.  For the mpg and rpg he is getting for OKC they overpaid.