The clippers pick from the perk trade was smart

[indeedproceed]

What happens when Ainge finds a Rondo type impact player and a player better than Perkins with the two picks in this upcoming draft ?

If that happens we'll all be pretty happy campers.

[Inside-Out]

At the risk of hijacking the thread for a moot point, I don't buy any of the above reasons why Perk never averaged 30 minutes.

He didn't play end of games due to FT shooting, fine.  No reason not to play 36 some other time.

Who were those backups?  Posey wasn't a C, and Powe wasn't a C either, and KG played limited minutes at the 5 (BBD guarded bigs in the post).

And I don't really think it was fouls most of the time, either.  His highest PF avg is 3.3, suggesting that wasn't the reason for limited PT.


Glad to have the pick for sure, though.  One thing Danny has been smart about is being protective of picks and not trading them away easily.

Perkins played a large majority of the minutes with the starters and Doc used to use a lot of different lineups for small minutes.  Posey was typically first off the bench for Perk, and finished a lot of games for him especially come playoff time.  In 07 it was him, Brown, Davis, and Powe did play some time at C next to Posey.  The next year it was a lot more Baby, and KG still played C next to Powe and a significant amount next to Scals.  Then it was all Sheed and last year it was a lot of Baby again.

So this year is the first time KG has really played C in two years, but he did play it a decent amount back in the day.  As for the other guys that backed up Perk, I can't really complain about any of them being less than "competent" unless you count the limited Semih and Mikki Moore minutes (I did complain about Baby but only after the trade when he was JO and Krstic's backup).

As for your other comments, I guess Doc didn't think it was reasonable to play Perk for a straight 36 out of the first 40 minutes.  Also, the league leaders in PFs are usually around 3.5 (remember they usually only get 1 or 2 and that averages out the 4s and 5s), and it only takes 2 in the first Q to sit down.  Then if he gets that 3rd when he comes back in he goes right back out and ends that game with around 20min.  Unfortunately, foul trouble wasn't always a rare occurrence for Perk and other defensive players like Noah, Dwight, Chandler.

Good point on the early fouls.  If he could set picks without getting called for an offensive fouls so often, he might not have had to sit as often or early.  

2+ turnovers on average for a player that didn't handle the ball on offense?  Turrible.

To me, there seem to be several reasons to not be too eager to sign Perk on as a building block without having a superstar locked up.

Ainge >>>>>>> CelticsBloggers.

EDIT:  He's only averaging 26 mpg in OKC this year, too...

[Roy H.]

Ainge >>>>>>> CelticsBloggers.

Overall, yes, absolutely.

That said, there are plenty of individual decisions that Danny gets wrong that bloggers would have gotten right.  Case in point:  passing on DeAndre Jordan in favor of J.R. Giddens. 

You can't just point to a decision and say "Ainge made it, so it must be right".  It doesn't work that way; he's as fallible as anyone else.

[Marcus13]

What happens when Ainge finds a Rondo type impact player and a player better than Perkins with the two picks in this upcoming draft ?

What in our draft history would lead you to believe that this is going to happen?

[Neurotic Guy]

Deep draft or not, it's more likely than not that the 24th pick fails to contribute much of value.  I hate to be a Debbie Downer, but you'll never convince me that it was worth trading Perk for a late 1st rounder.  Heck, Semih + Harangody landed almost as much (a future Minnesota #2).  

Worst case scenario, we would have landed a large cap exception for Perk.  I'd say an $8 million exception is worth as much as that #24 pick.  

Can you explain the trade exception rule (or point me to a link)?

It used to be my understanding that these could emerge with trades to teams who are under the cap and therefore don't have salary to match in trades.  But I think LA's current big exception is from the Odom deal in Dallas -- a team well over the cap.  It seems that with trade exceptions the need to match salaries in a trade is moot. But I am guessing I am missing something...

[bbd24]

What happens when Ainge finds a Rondo type impact player and a player better than Perkins with the two picks in this upcoming draft ?

What in our draft history would lead you to believe that this is going to happen?

Didn't Ainge draft both Rondo & Perkins ? Tough to go by history as every draft is different regardless.

In a deep draft, I'm not counting Ainge out of anything. 

[vinnie]

At the risk of hijacking the thread for a moot point, I don't buy any of the above reasons why Perk never averaged 30 minutes.

He didn't play end of games due to FT shooting, fine.  No reason not to play 36 some other time.

Who were those backups?  Posey wasn't a C, and Powe wasn't a C either, and KG played limited minutes at the 5 (BBD guarded bigs in the post).

And I don't really think it was fouls most of the time, either.  His highest PF avg is 3.3, suggesting that wasn't the reason for limited PT.


Glad to have the pick for sure, though.  One thing Danny has been smart about is being protective of picks and not trading them away easily.

Perkins played a large majority of the minutes with the starters and Doc used to use a lot of different lineups for small minutes.  Posey was typically first off the bench for Perk, and finished a lot of games for him especially come playoff time.  In 07 it was him, Brown, Davis, and Powe did play some time at C next to Posey.  The next year it was a lot more Baby, and KG still played C next to Powe and a significant amount next to Scals.  Then it was all Sheed and last year it was a lot of Baby again.

So this year is the first time KG has really played C in two years, but he did play it a decent amount back in the day.  As for the other guys that backed up Perk, I can't really complain about any of them being less than "competent" unless you count the limited Semih and Mikki Moore minutes (I did complain about Baby but only after the trade when he was JO and Krstic's backup).

As for your other comments, I guess Doc didn't think it was reasonable to play Perk for a straight 36 out of the first 40 minutes.  Also, the league leaders in PFs are usually around 3.5 (remember they usually only get 1 or 2 and that averages out the 4s and 5s), and it only takes 2 in the first Q to sit down.  Then if he gets that 3rd when he comes back in he goes right back out and ends that game with around 20min.  Unfortunately, foul trouble wasn't always a rare occurrence for Perk and other defensive players like Noah, Dwight, Chandler.

Good point on the early fouls.  If he could set picks without getting called for an offensive fouls so often, he might not have had to sit as often or early.  

2+ turnovers on average for a player that didn't handle the ball on offense?  Turrible.

To me, there seem to be several reasons to not be too eager to sign Perk on as a building block without having a superstar locked up.

Ainge >>>>>>> CelticsBloggers.

EDIT:  He's only averaging 26 mpg in OKC this year, too...

Correct -- 26 minutes per game for the 11-2 Thunder.

[indeedproceed]

Deep draft or not, it's more likely than not that the 24th pick fails to contribute much of value.  I hate to be a Debbie Downer, but you'll never convince me that it was worth trading Perk for a late 1st rounder.  Heck, Semih + Harangody landed almost as much (a future Minnesota #2). 

Worst case scenario, we would have landed a large cap exception for Perk.  I'd say an $8 million exception is worth as much as that #24 pick. 

Can you explain the trade exception rule (or point me to a link)?

It used to be my understanding that these could emerge with trades to teams who are under the cap and therefore don't have salary to match in trades.  But I think LA's current big exception is from the Odom deal in Dallas -- a team well over the cap.  It seems that with trade exceptions the need to match salaries in a trade is moot. But I am guessing I am missing something...

Didn't LA get the deal done with Dallas using their own trade exception from...Dampier maybe? I forget...

[Moranis]

At the risk of hijacking the thread for a moot point, I don't buy any of the above reasons why Perk never averaged 30 minutes.

He didn't play end of games due to FT shooting, fine.  No reason not to play 36 some other time.

Who were those backups?  Posey wasn't a C, and Powe wasn't a C either, and KG played limited minutes at the 5 (BBD guarded bigs in the post).

And I don't really think it was fouls most of the time, either.  His highest PF avg is 3.3, suggesting that wasn't the reason for limited PT.


Glad to have the pick for sure, though.  One thing Danny has been smart about is being protective of picks and not trading them away easily.

Perkins played a large majority of the minutes with the starters and Doc used to use a lot of different lineups for small minutes.  Posey was typically first off the bench for Perk, and finished a lot of games for him especially come playoff time.  In 07 it was him, Brown, Davis, and Powe did play some time at C next to Posey.  The next year it was a lot more Baby, and KG still played C next to Powe and a significant amount next to Scals.  Then it was all Sheed and last year it was a lot of Baby again.

So this year is the first time KG has really played C in two years, but he did play it a decent amount back in the day.  As for the other guys that backed up Perk, I can't really complain about any of them being less than "competent" unless you count the limited Semih and Mikki Moore minutes (I did complain about Baby but only after the trade when he was JO and Krstic's backup).

As for your other comments, I guess Doc didn't think it was reasonable to play Perk for a straight 36 out of the first 40 minutes.  Also, the league leaders in PFs are usually around 3.5 (remember they usually only get 1 or 2 and that averages out the 4s and 5s), and it only takes 2 in the first Q to sit down.  Then if he gets that 3rd when he comes back in he goes right back out and ends that game with around 20min.  Unfortunately, foul trouble wasn't always a rare occurrence for Perk and other defensive players like Noah, Dwight, Chandler.

Good point on the early fouls.  If he could set picks without getting called for an offensive fouls so often, he might not have had to sit as often or early.  

2+ turnovers on average for a player that didn't handle the ball on offense?  Turrible.

To me, there seem to be several reasons to not be too eager to sign Perk on as a building block without having a superstar locked up.

Ainge >>>>>>> CelticsBloggers.

EDIT:  He's only averaging 26 mpg in OKC this year, too...

Correct -- 26 minutes per game for the 11-2 Thunder.

Yep and is at just 5.7 ppg and a really bad 6.0 rpg.  His REB% is by far the lowest of his career, while his TOV% is by far the highest (worst) of his career.  Even his blocks and assists are very low. 

Perkins just isn't very good.  The love affair of him now that he is gone is crazy. 

[ianboyextreme]

The trade was for the hope of the following assets

Green

A first rounder eventually in the top 11-15 range,



Ended up as a single draft pick in the 20s. 


For a starting C in the NBA today.


Not a good deal. 

The Celtics could have gotten a better package over the summer in a sign and trade.  A low 1st and a trade exception. 

I really dont think the Clippers are gonna end up with the 25th pick in the draft. Try 19 or so.

[ianboyextreme]

thanks to cp3, the clippers are performing fairly well, and this allows us to execute the pick this upcoming loaded 2012 draft.

look at a mock draft: http://www.nbadraft.net/2012mock_draft


we're one of 2 teams with multiple  (2) first round picks. it just looks incredibly smart now. we got 2 picks in a loaded draft. if the clippers are ranked 8th then that is our best draft position, but either way as long as they make the playoffs we'll be fine.


the 2 first rounds gives us options.i think we can trade up and try to get someone (austin rivers)... we can use them as assets to get players.  multiple options with this now valuable pick

I agree with the original sentiment. We have a lot more leverage and options with the 2nd pick.

[indeedproceed]

The trade was for the hope of the following assets

Green

A first rounder eventually in the top 11-15 range,



Ended up as a single draft pick in the 20s. 


For a starting C in the NBA today.


Not a good deal. 

The Celtics could have gotten a better package over the summer in a sign and trade.  A low 1st and a trade exception. 

I really dont think the Clippers are gonna end up with the 25th pick in the draft. Try 19 or so.

They're at 20 right now. You think they're going to get worse, not better, as chemistry improves?

[bbd24]

The trade was for the hope of the following assets

Green

A first rounder eventually in the top 11-15 range,



Ended up as a single draft pick in the 20s. 


For a starting C in the NBA today.


Not a good deal. 

The Celtics could have gotten a better package over the summer in a sign and trade.  A low 1st and a trade exception. 

I really dont think the Clippers are gonna end up with the 25th pick in the draft. Try 19 or so.

They're at 20 right now. You think they're going to get worse, not better, as chemistry improves?

Too early to tell.  Injuries, etc. could play a big role in all of this when its all said and done.  Just depends on how they get by the downfalls of a season.  Anything is possible in the West.

[indeedproceed]

The trade was for the hope of the following assets

Green

A first rounder eventually in the top 11-15 range,



Ended up as a single draft pick in the 20s. 


For a starting C in the NBA today.


Not a good deal. 

The Celtics could have gotten a better package over the summer in a sign and trade.  A low 1st and a trade exception. 

I really dont think the Clippers are gonna end up with the 25th pick in the draft. Try 19 or so.

They're at 20 right now. You think they're going to get worse, not better, as chemistry improves?

Too early to tell.  Injuries, etc. could play a big role in all of this when its all said and done.  Just depends on how they get by the downfalls of a season.  Anything is possible in the West.

Sure, absolutely. I just think its more probable that they get higher than 20 than that they get lower. Already beat some pretty good teams, its not like they're a flash in teh pan kinda thing, and they should get better.

[Moranis]

The trade was for the hope of the following assets

Green

A first rounder eventually in the top 11-15 range,



Ended up as a single draft pick in the 20s. 


For a starting C in the NBA today.


Not a good deal. 

The Celtics could have gotten a better package over the summer in a sign and trade.  A low 1st and a trade exception. 

I really dont think the Clippers are gonna end up with the 25th pick in the draft. Try 19 or so.

They're at 20 right now. You think they're going to get worse, not better, as chemistry improves?

Too early to tell.  Injuries, etc. could play a big role in all of this when its all said and done.  Just depends on how they get by the downfalls of a season.  Anything is possible in the West.

Sure, absolutely. I just think its more probable that they get higher than 20 than that they get lower. Already beat some pretty good teams, its not like they're a flash in teh pan kinda thing, and they should get better.

But if you look at the teams ahead of them Utah is really the only one I think tails off, but they also have Dallas right behind them.  20 seems about right to me.