Author Topic: JaJuan or BBD?  (Read 19469 times)

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Re: JaJuan or BBD?
« Reply #45 on: November 17, 2011, 11:01:45 PM »

Offline Yogi

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Really?

People want to just give a four year senior college player chosen 27th in the 1st round, who hasn't played a single minute in the NBA the backup PF spot over a player that has proven himself as a valuable NBA role player?

Really?

How many four year college PFs chosen after the 15th pick in the 1st round have even made it in the NBA over the last ten years, never mind be so productive as to land the back up PF spot on a contending team?

Before you go researching the number is extremely extremely small.

I think you’ll find most people on that side of the argument aren’t really so infatuated with JaJuan, rather not in agreement with you as to BBD’s value. I’d sign almost anyone out there over BBD right now because I feel he is a selfish player more interested in his “role” on the team than winning a championship. He is an out of shape cry baby who can’t seem to realize what his strengths and weaknesses are. For some reason he thinks he is a shooter, and no matter who he is out there with thinks he should be launching up shots. He longer works hard at the thing that used to make many of us love his contribution to the team, hustle and taking charges, and therefore his skill set is very small at this weight/point.

Someone once again tell me the value of an under sized PF/C that can’t rebound, score under the basket, shoot from the outside, defend on the perimeter, score under the rim, or block shots… I think many of us don’t see it and that’s why we’d rather have a guy with upside than BBD.

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Re: JaJuan or BBD?
« Reply #46 on: November 17, 2011, 11:12:41 PM »

Offline BASS_THUMPER

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seems every trade we made in the last 2 years have not helped at all...

i like what we got but i dont like what they been giving...

Re: JaJuan or BBD?
« Reply #47 on: November 18, 2011, 01:01:38 AM »

Offline chambers

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Does everyone remember game 4 of the last time we made the finals?
Davis had plenty of games like this where he single single-handedly saved our ass.

Why do people forget so quickly?
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: JaJuan or BBD?
« Reply #48 on: November 18, 2011, 03:45:02 AM »

Offline KP43

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Does everyone remember game 4 of the last time we made the finals?
Davis had plenty of games like this where he single single-handedly saved our ass.

Why do people forget so quickly?

thats the old baby.. he's changed now, he hates to pass the ball, and he wants to be a freakin starter.
Doc's gonna tell you what you need to hear, not what you want to hear.

Yeah iknow, my username is Kendrick Perkins and my ranking is Jeff Green. Ironic huh?

Re: JaJuan or BBD?
« Reply #49 on: November 18, 2011, 03:55:38 AM »

Offline KP43

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Really?

People want to just give a four year senior college player chosen 27th in the 1st round, who hasn't played a single minute in the NBA the backup PF spot over a player that has proven himself as a valuable NBA role player?

Really?

How many four year college PFs chosen after the 15th pick in the 1st round have even made it in the NBA over the last ten years, never mind be so productive as to land the back up PF spot on a contending team?

Before you go researching the number is extremely extremely small.

Kendrick Perkins, Pick 27
Saša Vujačić, Pick 27
Linas Kleiza, Pick 27
Taj Gibson, 26 (which is close to the 27th...

What im trying to say, is that this pick doesn't bring any superstars. But Perk was never a superstar, was he? look at the list above, all of them plays / played a big role either off the bench or in one of recent historys best starting 5.

Also, with KG mentoring, JJJ could become a great 4-5 player. Maybe not at first, but after a while. He could become a present down low... lets hope, at least, because we need everything thats taller than 6-9 and weights under 289.. (BBD)
Doc's gonna tell you what you need to hear, not what you want to hear.

Yeah iknow, my username is Kendrick Perkins and my ranking is Jeff Green. Ironic huh?

Re: JaJuan or BBD?
« Reply #50 on: November 18, 2011, 09:30:04 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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Really?

People want to just give a four year senior college player chosen 27th in the 1st round, who hasn't played a single minute in the NBA the backup PF spot over a player that has proven himself as a valuable NBA role player?

Really?

How many four year college PFs chosen after the 15th pick in the 1st round have even made it in the NBA over the last ten years, never mind be so productive as to land the back up PF spot on a contending team?

Before you go researching the number is extremely extremely small.

I think you’ll find most people on that side of the argument aren’t really so infatuated with JaJuan, rather not in agreement with you as to BBD’s value. I’d sign almost anyone out there over BBD right now because I feel he is a selfish player more interested in his “role” on the team than winning a championship. He is an out of shape cry baby who can’t seem to realize what his strengths and weaknesses are. For some reason he thinks he is a shooter, and no matter who he is out there with thinks he should be launching up shots. He longer works hard at the thing that used to make many of us love his contribution to the team, hustle and taking charges, and therefore his skill set is very small at this weight/point.

Someone once again tell me the value of an under sized PF/C that can’t rebound, score under the basket, shoot from the outside, defend on the perimeter, score under the rim, or block shots… I think many of us don’t see it and that’s why we’d rather have a guy with upside than BBD.

I realize that Glen Davis has flaws, but I think he gets a little unfairly vilified around here for his proclivity for "launching up shots." 

Last season, outside of KG, we didn't have any other bigs who played significant minutes who had the ability to take outside shots.  For that reason, when Baby was on the floor with any big other than KG, he became the jump shooting big by default. 

As I think he should, Doc likes to have a big on the floor who can pop out and hit the J at all times.  Baby, way too often last year, ended up being the guy who fit that category. 

This was due to our roster make up.  Personally, I like Glen Davis much better when he can be paired with a big, like 'Sheed, for example, who likes to pop out and hit jumpers.  Baby is much more comfortable and effective as a roller, going to the hoop and getting layups, drawing fouls, and getting in position for offensive rebounds. 

That's why I say, let's see if we can resuscitate Troy Murphy.  If Troy can regain enough of his form to be a second line big man, I think he and Baby could form a better offensive tandem than anything we saw up front last year with the second unit.  Baby rolls and Murphy pops.

I do like Johnson, as well.  I think he's a guy who can knock down the open jumper, too.  Pairing Baby and Johnson together, if nothing else, would be amusing to watch.  It would be like watching a figure from a Botero painting running up and down the court with a Giacometti sculpture. 

 
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PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: JaJuan or BBD?
« Reply #51 on: November 18, 2011, 09:35:31 AM »

Offline Eja117

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JaJuan....I don't even like thinking about Davis these days

Re: JaJuan or BBD?
« Reply #52 on: November 18, 2011, 09:36:49 AM »

Online Roy H.

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Does everyone remember game 4 of the last time we made the finals?
Davis had plenty of games like this where he single single-handedly saved our ass.

Why do people forget so quickly?

Without even getting into whether BBD has changed his mentality since then, that was one game.  Do you know what BBD did in Games 5 and 6?  A combined 0 points in 40 minutes. 

That's the thing with Baby.  At times, he plays brilliantly, and seems to willingly accept his role.  At others, though, he's playing downright poorly, is shooting the Celtics out of games, and is looking at himself as "the man".

BBD is probably underrated on here due to last year's late fall off, but I don't think I'll miss him when he's gone.  We'll probably take a hit on the floor in the short term, but hopefully we'll be able to develop somebody more willing to buy into our system.


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Re: JaJuan or BBD?
« Reply #53 on: November 18, 2011, 12:13:13 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Really?

People want to just give a four year senior college player chosen 27th in the 1st round, who hasn't played a single minute in the NBA the backup PF spot over a player that has proven himself as a valuable NBA role player?

Really?

How many four year college PFs chosen after the 15th pick in the 1st round have even made it in the NBA over the last ten years, never mind be so productive as to land the back up PF spot on a contending team?

Before you go researching the number is extremely extremely small.

Kendrick Perkins, Pick 27
Saša Vujačić, Pick 27
Linas Kleiza, Pick 27
Taj Gibson, 26 (which is close to the 27th...

What im trying to say, is that this pick doesn't bring any superstars. But Perk was never a superstar, was he? look at the list above, all of them plays / played a big role either

off the bench or in one of recent historys best starting 5.

Also, with KG mentoring, JJJ could become a great 4-5 player. Maybe not at first, but after a while. He could become a present down low... lets hope, at least, because we need everything thats taller than 6-9 and weights under 289.. (BBD)
Kendrick Perkins was a disaster his first 2-3 years in the league. His first year he couldn't even play.

Vujacic was slightly better. I guess. His first year he shot 28% from the floor in 35 games averaging 2.9 PPG and guess what? His defense was even worse than it is now.

Kleiza was a clean up sub his first year in Denver averaging 8 MPG and 3 PPG. He played a lesser role than Vujacic and was not a very good player.

Taj Gibson was without a doubt the only good example you gave and the only other one I found over the last 10 years was David West chosen 15th and David Lee chosen 30th. And that's it. 3 guys over the last 10 years out of 150 that were productive PFs chosen after 15 right from the get go.

Chances of JaJuan being able to hang with the big boys straight from the start is very very small. Now, that doesn't mean I think Baby should stay. On the contrary, I think he has worn out his welcome here. But if a suitable backup PF can't be found, then the C's might have to think of bringing him back on another 2 year/$3 million per year deal.

If JaJuan can develop and be productive straight from the start, fine, trade baby mid season or if there is another PF here, let Johnson take his minutes. But if the C's return this season its for one last shot at a title with this team and I believe you severely weaken the chances of this team by assigning Johnson as the backup to KG. The chances are, he's just not going to be very good this year and during the Big Three's last go around, we just can't have that.

Players chosen


Re: JaJuan or BBD?
« Reply #54 on: November 18, 2011, 12:41:57 PM »

Offline Interceptor

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Chances of JaJuan being able to hang with the big boys straight from the start is very very small.
I think that the lesson here is that playing in college first is helpful. Since JJJ played four years at Perdue, let's add that against his chances.

Quote
Now, that doesn't mean I think Baby should stay. On the contrary, I think he has worn out his welcome here. But if a suitable backup PF can't be found, then the C's might have to think of bringing him back on another 2 year/$3 million per year deal.
The trick here is getting BBD to accept it. He thinks he's an MLE player, for some reason. He would have still been on the books for 2011-12 if he accepted what the C's offered him in the first place back in '09, but he went for a two-year deal instead.

Well, I guess he might have shot himself out of a big contract... that may be the only good thing that comes out of his post-All Star break stink-fest of a performance.

Re: JaJuan or BBD?
« Reply #55 on: November 18, 2011, 01:01:33 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I think JJ will beat the odds.   You can learn being 6'10" or being able to jump out of the gymn.  He has pretty nice skill set.  Rondo was shocked by his skill and he doesn't exactly dole out the compliments.

http://www.celticsblog.com/2011/11/8/2546501/rondos-quick-scouting-report-on-jajuan-johnson

Now I am not saying he will dominate but he is long and athletic two things we sorely need.  The NBA defense will be the hardest thing to pick up.  But with our team he doesn't have to come in and drop 30 every night.  He just has to hold his own and not mess up the flow.

As for BBD, I like him when he is hustling and doing the little things we need to win.  I don't care for him as a scoring option.   He is easily blocked and shoots too many jumpers that put him out of rebounding range.   

As for all these examples, Perk is a one trick pony he defends,  is a average rebounder and is a dismal scoring option.   He did not play in college and last time I checked he is a C not a PF.  As for the other guys I trust Doc and Danny on draft picks.  They have done well late in the rounds.  Big Baby was a second rounder and so was Powe both have etched out nice pros careers.   I much rather have a four year college guy than a Euro Gamble pick.

If BBD will stay or leave will depend on BBD.  I am sure he will be offered a deal based on what Danny thinks is fair.   I do not think he is worth MLE monies.  I would rather see us spend that on say a Dalambert.

Re: JaJuan or BBD?
« Reply #56 on: November 18, 2011, 01:27:21 PM »

Offline Yogi

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   People just need a scapegoat.  They're still upset we lost in the second round to Miami, and there are only two people to blame, Ainge and Davis.  Baby is an easy target because people love making fat jokes, forget the fact that he's a tremendous athlete who constantly has to fight bigger guys.  Because he's undersized and doesn't fit most people's prototypical NBA player,  it's easy to say that he's done as a Celtic and we're moving on. 
   The truth is he's a great guy to have on your team.  Anybody who's opinion matters likes him.  Ainge (only guy other than Big 4 not traded from 2008,) Doc (gives him starter minutes,) the Big 4 (they keep giving him the ball.)  There are players who fans should vilify.  Those that are cancerous to a team, those who have no heart, those who give up trying etc. 
  Then there are players like Baby who were second round picks, Who are NOT all stars.  Who make LESS than the average NBA salary.  Who produce on both ends of the floor.  Who sacrifice their bodies for their team.  Who improved every year they've been in the league.  Who earns the respect of Hall of Famers.  Who, before a knee injury, was considered a SMOY behind only Jamal Crawford, Jason Terry and Lamar Odom (You want to check how much they are getting paid?)  Who played a very significant part of our recent championship.  Who took us to the brink of a finals series replacing KEVIN FREAKING GARNETT. 
   I root for Celtics.  Glen Davis is a Celtic in every sense of the word.  Is he perfect? no.  No one is perfect especially when they are young.  He's pretty darn good though.  And I am very happy he's playing for the Celtics. 
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Re: JaJuan or BBD?
« Reply #57 on: November 18, 2011, 01:32:05 PM »

Offline Interceptor

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People just need a scapegoat.  They're still upset we lost in the second round to Miami, and there are only two people to blame, Ainge and Davis.
Who blames BBD for the second round exit? It was very obviously mostly the result of injuries (Shaq, Krstic, Rondo, etc).

Re: JaJuan or BBD?
« Reply #58 on: November 18, 2011, 01:33:54 PM »

Offline Yogi

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People just need a scapegoat.  They're still upset we lost in the second round to Miami, and there are only two people to blame, Ainge and Davis.
Who blames BBD for the second round exit? It was very obviously mostly the result of injuries (Shaq, Krstic, Rondo, etc).
Just look at this thread.  If we won the championship last year do you think we would have so much hate?
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J. Lin/I. Canaan/N. Wolters
E. Gordon/A. Shved
N. Batum/A. Roberson
A. Davis/K. Olynyk/M. Scott
D. Cousins/A. Baynes/V. Faverani
Rights: A. Abrines, R. Neto, L. Jean-Charles  Coach: M. Williams

Re: JaJuan or BBD?
« Reply #59 on: November 18, 2011, 02:10:26 PM »

Offline Interceptor

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Just look at this thread.  If we won the championship last year do you think we would have so much hate?
If we won the championship last year it would have been a miracle, since our best option for C was a guy with a broken wrist. I don't see anyone blaming BBD for the 2nd round exit, I see people pointing out his faults and being right about it.