Good News. Labor deal is 95.632% complete

[StartOrien]

Harpring doesn't even play anymore, if he was playing he would be one of the middle class NBA players who would get reamed in this new deal.

I don't understand how the lesser players can agree to a worse deal...it makes no sense!

Why does the amount he plays factor into how true his statement is? There's a room divided, he's requesting a vote.

[indeedproceed]

Harpring doesn't even play anymore, if he was playing he would be one of the middle class NBA players who would get reamed in this new deal.

I don't understand how the lesser players can agree to a worse deal...it makes no sense!

Because they know its not going to get any better...or at least better enough to make it worth the lost salary from holding out even longer.

Exactly. Maybe they don't want to end up like the NHL players who had a better deal on the table than what they ended up with after missing a year of salaries.

Was reading today about how maybe the reasons behind some of the hard-liners (Wyc, Paul Allen, Dan Gilbert) are more vindictive or deceitful than previously known. All three are speculated to have their own reasons for making sure a 2012 season doesn't occur.

EDIT:

Yet other owners, most notably Dan Gilbert and Paul Allen, won't budge.

    The owners aren't holding out for parity. They are holding out because of indifference and vindictiveness.

Does anyone really believe that Paul Allen, worth $13.2 billion, is holding up this deal for a few million dollars out of his pocket?3 Of course not. The reality is that there is not, nor will there ever be, parity in the NBA. You need an elite superstar to win a championship, and there are maybe 10 of those in the NBA. Parity is simply being used to hide their true intent.

The owners aren't holding out for parity. They are holding out because of indifference and vindictiveness. Financially, they have so much money and so many alternate sources of revenue that it doesn't matter if their teams play or not. And since most owners' teams aren't going to win anyway, the motivation just isn't there to cave. For certain owners, like Dan Gilbert, this is taken to an extreme. The man who penned the Comic Sans diatribe against LeBron James would love nothing more than to slice a year off James' championship window in Miami.

[hpantazo]

Harpring doesn't even play anymore, if he was playing he would be one of the middle class NBA players who would get reamed in this new deal.

I don't understand how the lesser players can agree to a worse deal...it makes no sense!

Because they know its not going to get any better...or at least better enough to make it worth the lost salary from holding out even longer.

Exactly. Maybe they don't want to end up like the NHL players who had a better deal on the table than what they ended up with after missing a year of salaries.

Was reading today about how maybe the reasons behind some of the hard-liners (Wyc, Paul Allen, Dan Gilbert) are more vindictive or deceitful than previously known. All three are speculated to have their own reasons for making sure a 2012 season doesn't occur.

I heard about Allen, and I can imagine Gilbert's reason's, but what are Wyc's reasons? I would think throwing away the last year of the big 3 would be bad for his team.

[Chris]

Harpring doesn't even play anymore, if he was playing he would be one of the middle class NBA players who would get reamed in this new deal.

I don't understand how the lesser players can agree to a worse deal...it makes no sense!

Because they know its not going to get any better...or at least better enough to make it worth the lost salary from holding out even longer.

Exactly. Maybe they don't want to end up like the NHL players who had a better deal on the table than what they ended up with after missing a year of salaries.

Was reading today about how maybe the reasons behind some of the hard-liners (Wyc, Paul Allen, Dan Gilbert) are more vindictive or deceitful than previously known. All three are speculated to have their own reasons for making sure a 2012 season doesn't occur.

I heard about Allen, and I can imagine Gilbert's reason's, but what are Wyc's reasons? I would think throwing away the last year of the big 3 would be bad for his team.

Because he might not believe this team is a contender anymore, and he doesn't want to pay such a high price tag for a mediocre team this year.

I don't believe it, but its plausible.

[indeedproceed]

Harpring doesn't even play anymore, if he was playing he would be one of the middle class NBA players who would get reamed in this new deal.

I don't understand how the lesser players can agree to a worse deal...it makes no sense!

Because they know its not going to get any better...or at least better enough to make it worth the lost salary from holding out even longer.

Exactly. Maybe they don't want to end up like the NHL players who had a better deal on the table than what they ended up with after missing a year of salaries.

Was reading today about how maybe the reasons behind some of the hard-liners (Wyc, Paul Allen, Dan Gilbert) are more vindictive or deceitful than previously known. All three are speculated to have their own reasons for making sure a 2012 season doesn't occur.

I heard about Allen, and I can imagine Gilbert's reason's, but what are Wyc's reasons? I would think throwing away the last year of the big 3 would be bad for his team.

It wasn't in the Grantland article so I'm trying to place where I read it.

IIRC, it was the notion that IF Wyc had already decided that the window was closed, one more year way extended over the cap with zero real flexibility (since the plan has always been to let KG and Ray expire), Wyc would just as soon not have the the loss and hassle of it while he waits for the FA class of 2012.

[fairweatherfan]

Harpring doesn't even play anymore, if he was playing he would be one of the middle class NBA players who would get reamed in this new deal.

I don't understand how the lesser players can agree to a worse deal...it makes no sense!

Because they know its not going to get any better...or at least better enough to make it worth the lost salary from holding out even longer.

Exactly. Maybe they don't want to end up like the NHL players who had a better deal on the table than what they ended up with after missing a year of salaries.

Was reading today about how maybe the reasons behind some of the hard-liners (Wyc, Paul Allen, Dan Gilbert) are more vindictive or deceitful than previously known. All three are speculated to have their own reasons for making sure a 2012 season doesn't occur.

I see the general point but I dunno about vindictiveness, I'm guessing it's more of a fiscal calculation.  Prokhorov is apparently another one - he really doesn't care about the Nets' last season in Jersey, and wiping it out would probably save him quite a bit of money.

[StartOrien]

It wasn't in the Grantland article so I'm trying to place where I read it.

IIRC, it was the notion that IF Wyc had already decided that the window was closed, one more year way extended over the cap with zero real flexibility (since the plan has always been to let KG and Ray expire), Wyc would just as soon not have the the loss and hassle of it while he waits for the FA class of 2012

I don't know if I necessarily buy this based off of how blindly faithful Wyc has been in Pierce.

[indeedproceed]

It wasn't in the Grantland article so I'm trying to place where I read it.

IIRC, it was the notion that IF Wyc had already decided that the window was closed, one more year way extended over the cap with zero real flexibility (since the plan has always been to let KG and Ray expire), Wyc would just as soon not have the the loss and hassle of it while he waits for the FA class of 2012

I don't know if I necessarily buy this based off of how blindly faithful Wyc has been in Pierce.

I'm not saying I buy it, just saying its a 'thing' that's out there. Just like how 'Billy Hunter's Ego' is the great albatross that's holding this back, and he's 'with-holding good faith offers from the players', or how he 'killed a man in Reno, just to watch him die'.

[Roy H.]

Looks like the players are ready to cave on BRI:

Fisher and Hunter, speaking for 43 players who attended the NBPA meeting, said they are willing to accept the BRI split, but only if there are system changes made. Hunter specifically noted the mid-level exception, sign-and-trades for luxury tax teams, the more punitive luxury tax and others as the issues on which the players would like to see the league move.

"We're open-minded about potential compromises on our [BRI] number," Fisher said. "But there are things in the system that we have to have"

Hunter said he plans on calling Stern in the next 24 hours to arrange a meeting and "anticipates" it will happen. He said he expects the original offer to remain on the table past Wednesday, but said that he's heard through the "underground" that games may be cancelled through Christmas if the talks break down.

http://www.bulletsforever.com/2011/11/8/2547989/nba-lockout-update-nbpa-billy-hunter-derek-fisher

The "system issues" are still enough to hold this up, though, especially if the reports about the owner hardliners are true.

[LB3533]

I think the players finally realized or finally accepted that they will not win the battle on the BRI front.

But if they can win some of their battles on the "system issues" front, they may be able to save some face.

Also, it's funny how there are reports detailing how Stern has less control over the owners and that Fisher and Hunter are losing the grasp of the union to Steve Blake (of all people) and Paul Pierce.

[Fafnir]

Looks like the players are ready to cave on BRI:

Fisher and Hunter, speaking for 43 players who attended the NBPA meeting, said they are willing to accept the BRI split, but only if there are system changes made. Hunter specifically noted the mid-level exception, sign-and-trades for luxury tax teams, the more punitive luxury tax and others as the issues on which the players would like to see the league move.

"We're open-minded about potential compromises on our [BRI] number," Fisher said. "But there are things in the system that we have to have"

Hunter said he plans on calling Stern in the next 24 hours to arrange a meeting and "anticipates" it will happen. He said he expects the original offer to remain on the table past Wednesday, but said that he's heard through the "underground" that games may be cancelled through Christmas if the talks break down.

http://www.bulletsforever.com/2011/11/8/2547989/nba-lockout-update-nbpa-billy-hunter-derek-fisher

The "system issues" are still enough to hold this up, though, especially if the reports about the owner hardliners are true.

I think if they cave on BRI the "system" issues will suddenly be resolved.

The system issues were always window dressing largely, the total BRI number and revenue sharing have always been the big issues of contention between the Players/Owners and the Small/Large markets.

[Roy H.]

43 players from 29 teams were at today's NBAPA union meeting.  The one team not represented?  The Celtics.

http://twitter.com/#!/WojYahooNBA

[Fafnir]

43 players from 29 teams were at today's NBAPA union meeting.  The one team not represented?  The Celtics.

http://twitter.com/#!/WojYahooNBA

Makes sense, it sounds like KG/Pierce/Allen are among the more hardline on the player's side.

[Chris]

43 players from 29 teams were at today's NBAPA union meeting.  The one team not represented?  The Celtics.

http://twitter.com/#!/WojYahooNBA

Makes sense, it sounds like KG/Pierce/Allen are among the more hardline on the player's side.

But then I would think they would want to be there to shout down anyone who is calling for a vote.

[Mike]

I think the players finally realized or finally accepted that they will not win the battle on the BRI front.

But if they can win some of their battles on the "system issues" front, they may be able to save some face.

Also, it's funny how there are reports detailing how Stern has less control over the owners and that Fisher and Hunter are losing the grasp of the union to Steve Blake (of all people) and Paul Pierce.

Pierce is the Celtics player rep.  All player reps can be found on NBPA's website.  I read somewhere (I think either Woj's/Berger's/Lowe's twitter) that Pierce got approval from Hunter and Fisher before the decertification conference calls.  I would link it if I wasn't leaving my house right now.

I would speculate that Pierce wasn't at the meeting because he is already on board with Fisher/Hunter, but at the same time Fisher/Hunter didn't want Pierce's connection to decertification to hang over the room.