CB Draft Western Conference Finals: Kings (1) Vs Blazers (2)

[indeedproceed]

And what you want to do is limit the scope to games that are to your advantage while completely ignoring the entire statistical history of the players playing against each other.

Just because Amare shoots 60% against in a handful of games you picked doesn't mean that he is taking the necessary amount of shots he needs to to dominate the game and turn it to the Blazers. he averages only 24 PPG while shooting 58% versus Millsap. Millsap neutralizes him on the boards and that with us including lower rebounding game while he was a sub.

It works both ways.

Right..but in the 'handful of games' I picked, Millsap might actually have guarded Amare Stoudemire for significant amounts of time. Your method doesn't look at anything besides the two guys being on opposing rosters at the same time.

My games have them playing similar minutes, in similar roles, in recent context. Your numbers lack all context, and are borderline irrelevant.

But like you said, you like yours more because they support your point. I like mine more because they support my point, and they kinda make sense.

[Rondo2287]

And what you want to do is limit the scope to games that are to your advantage while completely ignoring the entire statistical history of the players playing against each other.

Just because Amare shoots 60% against in a handful of games you picked doesn't mean that he is taking the necessary amount of shots he needs to to dominate the game and turn it to the Blazers. he averages only 24 PPG while shooting 58% versus Millsap. Millsap neutralizes him on the boards and that with us including lower rebounding game while he was a sub.

It works both ways.

Right..but in the 'handful of games' I picked, Millsap might actually have guarded Amare Stoudemire for significant amounts of time. Your method doesn't look at anything besides the two guys being on opposing rosters at the same time.

My games have them playing similar minutes, in similar roles, in recent context. Your numbers lack all context, and are borderline irrelevant.

But like you said, you like yours more because they support your point. I like mine more because they support my point, and they kinda make sense.

really what your saying is that your numbers regarding what might have happened are better than our numbers that might have happened.  Jeez if we can get some experts to come in here and testify we could have a session of congress


edit, this was a joke intended to lighten the mood, im not saying our numbers are better than yours just think its funny that we both like our numbers

[indeedproceed]

And what you want to do is limit the scope to games that are to your advantage while completely ignoring the entire statistical history of the players playing against each other.

Just because Amare shoots 60% against in a handful of games you picked doesn't mean that he is taking the necessary amount of shots he needs to to dominate the game and turn it to the Blazers. he averages only 24 PPG while shooting 58% versus Millsap. Millsap neutralizes him on the boards and that with us including lower rebounding game while he was a sub.

It works both ways.

Right..but in the 'handful of games' I picked, Millsap might actually have guarded Amare Stoudemire for significant amounts of time. Your method doesn't look at anything besides the two guys being on opposing rosters at the same time.

My games have them playing similar minutes, in similar roles, in recent context. Your numbers lack all context, and are borderline irrelevant.

But like you said, you like yours more because they support your point. I like mine more because they support my point, and they kinda make sense.

really what your saying is that your numbers regarding what might have happened are better than our numbers that might have happened.  Jeez if we can get some experts to come in here and testify we could have a session of congress

What my esteemed fellow senator is trying to say is that nobody really knows what LeBron and Delfino or Amare and Millsap are going to look like as 1 on 1 matchups, other than Delfino won't be able to really stop LeBron, and Millsap won't be able to really stop Amare. Delfino plays better defense but doesn't contribute much on offense besides being a corner-man, and Millsap doesn't play very good defense on Amare, but contributes more offensively.

Pick your poison.

[nickagneta]

IP isn't talking a lot about the Bogut/Chandler matchup. Hmmmmm. Wonder why? Let's take a look shall we:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=chandty01&p2=bogutan01

Chandler 30 MPG, 9.4 PPG, 10.7 RPG, 1.0 BPG, 0.6 SPG 66.7% FG%

Bogut 35 MPG, 10.9 PPG, 9.7 RPG, 1.9 BPG, 0.2 SPG, 50% FG%

And that's with Chandler playing 5 less minutes per game than Bogut. If we did the IP Shuffle and made these PER36 stats to make his guy look better like he did with Harden then Chandler would score more points, well outrebound Bogut by about 3 a game, steal more balls, block almost as much shots and still shoot 16 percentage points higher than Bogut.


Oh that's why IP isn't talking about this matchup

[nickagneta]

And what you want to do is limit the scope to games that are to your advantage while completely ignoring the entire statistical history of the players playing against each other.

Just because Amare shoots 60% against in a handful of games you picked doesn't mean that he is taking the necessary amount of shots he needs to to dominate the game and turn it to the Blazers. he averages only 24 PPG while shooting 58% versus Millsap. Millsap neutralizes him on the boards and that with us including lower rebounding game while he was a sub.

It works both ways.

Right..but in the 'handful of games' I picked, Millsap might actually have guarded Amare Stoudemire for significant amounts of time. Your method doesn't look at anything besides the two guys being on opposing rosters at the same time.

My games have them playing similar minutes, in similar roles, in recent context. Your numbers lack all context, and are borderline irrelevant.

But like you said, you like yours more because they support your point. I like mine more because they support my point, and they kinda make sense.

really what your saying is that your numbers regarding what might have happened are better than our numbers that might have happened.  Jeez if we can get some experts to come in here and testify we could have a session of congress

What my esteemed fellow senator is trying to say is that nobody really knows what LeBron and Delfino or Amare and Millsap are going to look like as 1 on 1 matchups, other than Delfino won't be able to really stop LeBron, and Millsap won't be able to really stop Amare. Delfino plays better defense but doesn't contribute much on offense besides being a corner-man, and Millsap doesn't play very good defense on Amare, but contributes more offensively.

Pick your poison.

Exactly!!!

By George, I think he's got it!!!

[nickagneta]

So if we agree Lebron and Amare will get theirs and we agree Delfino will be not contributing much offensively but Millsap will then it comes down to this:

Who do people think is more likely, based on their history, to carry their team to a series win?

LeBron has done it time and again because he is a complete player that plays defense, offense, rebounds and passes and creates.

Amare has never done it because he needs to be given the ball, he's a reluctant and adequate passer, he's an okay rebounder for his size but is often neutralized on the boards, and his defense leaves something to be desired.

Choose people. Who do you think carries their team to a series win?

[dark_lord]

looking ahead, in the beginning of the playoffs, i liked utah's chances against the kings.  now that its official that portland advanced, i need to think about this. i will post my verdict later today

[Fafnir]

Choose people. Who do you think carries their team to a series win?

Well if we are picking between LeBron and Amar'e I think you know the answer.

However the best team typically wins, not the team with the best player. I'm not sure who the best team is in this circumstance.

[nickagneta]

And what you want to do is limit the scope to games that are to your advantage while completely ignoring the entire statistical history of the players playing against each other.

Just because Amare shoots 60% against in a handful of games you picked doesn't mean that he is taking the necessary amount of shots he needs to to dominate the game and turn it to the Blazers. he averages only 24 PPG while shooting 58% versus Millsap. Millsap neutralizes him on the boards and that with us including lower rebounding game while he was a sub.

It works both ways.

Right..but in the 'handful of games' I picked, Millsap might actually have guarded Amare Stoudemire for significant amounts of time. Your method doesn't look at anything besides the two guys being on opposing rosters at the same time.

My games have them playing similar minutes, in similar roles, in recent context. Your numbers lack all context, and are borderline irrelevant.

But like you said, you like yours more because they support your point. I like mine more because they support my point, and they kinda make sense.

really what your saying is that your numbers regarding what might have happened are better than our numbers that might have happened.  Jeez if we can get some experts to come in here and testify we could have a session of congress


edit, this was a joke intended to lighten the mood, im not saying our numbers are better than yours just think its funny that we both like our numbers

Don't worry Rondo, this is just the way IP and I debate. At the end of he day we still like each other and there's no hard feelings.

Though IP better watch out because this guy takes stuff seriously and has a sledgehammer:



Our official team spokesperson can sometimes have a bad sense of humor.

[Roy H.]

IP isn't talking a lot about the Bogut/Chandler matchup. Hmmmmm. Wonder why? Let's take a look shall we:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=chandty01&p2=bogutan01

Chandler 30 MPG, 9.4 PPG, 10.7 RPG, 1.0 BPG, 0.6 SPG 66.7% FG%

Bogut 35 MPG, 10.9 PPG, 9.7 RPG, 1.9 BPG, 0.2 SPG, 50% FG%

And that's with Chandler playing 5 less minutes per game than Bogut. If we did the IP Shuffle and made these PER36 stats to make his guy look better like he did with Harden then Chandler would score more points, well outrebound Bogut by about 3 a game, steal more balls, block almost as much shots and still shoot 16 percentage points higher than Bogut.


Oh that's why IP isn't talking about this matchup

In the last two years (2010-2011), though, Bogut has outperformed Chandler head-to-head fairly substantially.  All other games are from 2008 or earlier, so how much relevance do they really have?

Last three matchups: 

Bogut:  16 ppg, 11.3 rebounds, 2.3 assists, 4.0 bpg, 59.5% FG%

Chandler: 9.7 ppg, 6.7 rebounds, 0.0 assists, 0.3 bpg, 77% FG%

Bogut has played more minutes (40 vs. 28), but part of that is most likely due to Chandler not being very effective in the matchup.

[Who]

IP isn't talking a lot about the Bogut/Chandler matchup. Hmmmmm. Wonder why? Let's take a look shall we:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=chandty01&p2=bogutan01

Chandler 30 MPG, 9.4 PPG, 10.7 RPG, 1.0 BPG, 0.6 SPG 66.7% FG%

Bogut 35 MPG, 10.9 PPG, 9.7 RPG, 1.9 BPG, 0.2 SPG, 50% FG%

And that's with Chandler playing 5 less minutes per game than Bogut. If we did the IP Shuffle and made these PER36 stats to make his guy look better like he did with Harden then Chandler would score more points, well outrebound Bogut by about 3 a game, steal more balls, block almost as much shots and still shoot 16 percentage points higher than Bogut.


Oh that's why IP isn't talking about this matchup

In the last two years (2010-2011), though, Bogut has outperformed Chandler head-to-head fairly substantially.  All other games are from 2008 or earlier, so how much relevance do they really have?

Last three matchups: 

Bogut:  16 ppg, 11.3 rebounds, 2.3 assists, 4.0 bpg, 59.5% FG%

Chandler: 9.7 ppg, 6.7 rebounds, 0.0 assists, 0.3 bpg, 77% FG%

Bogut has played more minutes (40 vs. 28), but part of that is most likely due to Chandler not being very effective in the matchup.

Tyson Chandler had a tough year in Charlotte last season and didn't play many minutes.

How did the matchup go last year when Tyson was in Dallas? Or when he was in New Orleans?

[nickagneta]

Choose people. Who do you think carries their team to a series win?

Well if we are picking between LeBron and Amar'e I think you know the answer.

However the best team typically wins, not the team with the best player. I'm not sure who the best team is in this circumstance.

Well then take a look at the matchups that have been posted.

Chauncey/Jennings vs Kyle Lowry/Ramon Sessions
Wesley Matthews vs James Harden
Lebron James vs Carlos Delfino/Derrick(the rookie)Williams
Paul Millsap/Boris Diaw vs Amare Stoudemire
Tyson Chandler vs Andrew Bogut

The statistical head to heads have a virtual tie at the SG and center spot. An advantage for Portland at the PF spot and advantages for the Kings at the SF and PG position.

Also, we have significantly more proven players within a playoff environment with much better overall playoff success.

[Roy H.]

IP isn't talking a lot about the Bogut/Chandler matchup. Hmmmmm. Wonder why? Let's take a look shall we:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=chandty01&p2=bogutan01

Chandler 30 MPG, 9.4 PPG, 10.7 RPG, 1.0 BPG, 0.6 SPG 66.7% FG%

Bogut 35 MPG, 10.9 PPG, 9.7 RPG, 1.9 BPG, 0.2 SPG, 50% FG%

And that's with Chandler playing 5 less minutes per game than Bogut. If we did the IP Shuffle and made these PER36 stats to make his guy look better like he did with Harden then Chandler would score more points, well outrebound Bogut by about 3 a game, steal more balls, block almost as much shots and still shoot 16 percentage points higher than Bogut.


Oh that's why IP isn't talking about this matchup

In the last two years (2010-2011), though, Bogut has outperformed Chandler head-to-head fairly substantially.  All other games are from 2008 or earlier, so how much relevance do they really have?

Last three matchups: 

Bogut:  16 ppg, 11.3 rebounds, 2.3 assists, 4.0 bpg, 59.5% FG%

Chandler: 9.7 ppg, 6.7 rebounds, 0.0 assists, 0.3 bpg, 77% FG%

Bogut has played more minutes (40 vs. 28), but part of that is most likely due to Chandler not being very effective in the matchup.

Tyson Chandler had a tough year in Charlotte last season and didn't play many minutes.

How did the matchup go last year when Tyson was in Dallas? Or when he was in New Orleans?

The New Orleans stuff isn't all that relevant to me, since it's 3 1/2 years ago, at earliest.

In Dallas, Bogut won the first matchup handily, and the second one was fairly even. 

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=chandty01&p2=bogutan01

[dark_lord]

well, i can say this....when i get home from work, i will have some interesting reading in  this thread.

[Who]

IP isn't talking a lot about the Bogut/Chandler matchup. Hmmmmm. Wonder why? Let's take a look shall we:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=chandty01&p2=bogutan01

Chandler 30 MPG, 9.4 PPG, 10.7 RPG, 1.0 BPG, 0.6 SPG 66.7% FG%

Bogut 35 MPG, 10.9 PPG, 9.7 RPG, 1.9 BPG, 0.2 SPG, 50% FG%

And that's with Chandler playing 5 less minutes per game than Bogut. If we did the IP Shuffle and made these PER36 stats to make his guy look better like he did with Harden then Chandler would score more points, well outrebound Bogut by about 3 a game, steal more balls, block almost as much shots and still shoot 16 percentage points higher than Bogut.


Oh that's why IP isn't talking about this matchup

In the last two years (2010-2011), though, Bogut has outperformed Chandler head-to-head fairly substantially.  All other games are from 2008 or earlier, so how much relevance do they really have?

Last three matchups: 

Bogut:  16 ppg, 11.3 rebounds, 2.3 assists, 4.0 bpg, 59.5% FG%

Chandler: 9.7 ppg, 6.7 rebounds, 0.0 assists, 0.3 bpg, 77% FG%

Bogut has played more minutes (40 vs. 28), but part of that is most likely due to Chandler not being very effective in the matchup.

Tyson Chandler had a tough year in Charlotte last season and didn't play many minutes.

How did the matchup go last year when Tyson was in Dallas? Or when he was in New Orleans?

The New Orleans stuff isn't all that relevant to me, since it's 3 1/2 years ago, at earliest.

In Dallas, Bogut won the first matchup handily, and the second one was fairly even. 

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=chandty01&p2=bogutan01

I don't think I have ever seen the two of them play against one another.

Milwaukee vs Charlotte and Milwaukee vs New Orleans are not exactly games I go out of my way to see. Vaguely remember a Dallas vs Milwaukee match. Dirk hit a buzzer beater game winning shot. But I am pretty sure it was the year prior.