2011 CB Draft Western Playoffs: 1st Round

[Who]

Its the best scoring frontcourt player paired with the second best defensive center in the league vs two talented scoring frontcourt players that don't do much else well.

It's not fair to say that about Boozer. He is a very strong rebounder + passer.

He just can't do much defensively.

[StartOrien]

Yeah, I used it for that reason, Kane was saying Bogut wasn't the best player on the Bucks team that made the playoffs...that was in 09-10. Jeez, Roy! Follow the conversation.

KYLE LOWRY IS A JOKE OF A POINT GUARD

#wilsonchandlerequalschampionship

haha. Get outta here. Leslie Knopes called. She said she needs Tom and Ron back ASAP, and that your project was just de-funded.

Fine. But be warned: If we by some odd chance meet in the finals again, be prepared to see the phrase "Wilson-Chandler-Type" a lot

[Kane3387]

Jazz,

Defensively who covers Joe Johnson?

Also, I think you might be overstating his decline. Is there anything statistically that backs up your argument?

In regards to Joe and defending him.

Thabo will shadow Joe for 19 minutes per game. Besides that Butler will be on him. Sometimes Pierce will guard him too when we have a Baron&Jamal backcourt with Baron playing on Wright. If Thabo is not in, in the final minutes, then Pierce will guard Joe Johnson. Pierce is capable of this and is a very underrated defender

As for his decline.

Joe posted his worst numbers in the following categories as a Hawk this past year - 3 pt %, Reb, Blk, Stl, and points. In fact it was the first time he failed to average at least 20 points since being in Atlanta and the worst he has shot from three since he was a rookie.

See here for 2010-11:

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/1007/joe-johnson

I think the weight of the contract might have gotten to him some, but also the expansion of Horford's in the offense with a new system contributed too. So did being on the wrong side of 30.

Also look at his numbers in the playoffs. Is this what you want from a guy in 40 minutes of play who is supposed to be your leader and #1 option?

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/1007/seasontype/3/joe-johnson

[Kane3387]

Alright, I'm going to move the rest of my house now. I'm not going to be able to defend much else, so Rebus, if you come back swingin, don't hurt me too much.

Also a reminder...votes get sent to 'CB Draft Voting'. If you send your vote to me, I'm just changing 'spurs' to 'blazers' and forwarding it on.

LOL  I firmly believe this is true.

[dark_lord]

one other factor i considered was the carlisle/gentry coaching matchup.  advantage carlisle (spurs)

[nickagneta]

I already voted Utah but just wanted to wade through some of the propaganda regarding Joe Johnson:

- He was 29 years old last year and only just turned 30. Are you trying to make us believe that JJ is in decline at age 29 when just about every basketball pundit, fan, follower etc. KNOWS that NBA stars hit their peak between age 28 and 31? Was JJ some statistical anomaly and he was declining at age 29?

- Once Horford came along and then Jamal Crawford Atlanta has had a very balanced scoring punch with Johnson, Horford, Smith, Crawford, Williams and the Atlanta PG(be it Hinrich or Bibby)all having double digit scoring. Johnson at 18.7 was still their leading scorer.

-Once Bibby went into a REAL decline and JJ has been their facilitator and leader in assists per game for the past three years causing him to look for his shot less and less. Yes he had a poor shooting year, happens to everyone. But he took less shots and had less free throws than in years past because he has had to transition to floor general since Bibby's game took a nosedive.

[Kane3387]

I already voted Utah but just wanted to wade through some of the propaganda regarding Joe Johnson:

- He was 29 years old last year and only just turned 30. Are you trying to make us believe that JJ is in decline at age 29 when just about every basketball pundit, fan, follower etc. KNOWS that NBA stars hit their peak between age 28 and 31? Was JJ some statistical anomaly and he was declining at age 29?

- Once Horford came along and then Jamal Crawford Atlanta has had a very balanced scoring punch with Johnson, Horford, Smith, Crawford, Williams and the Atlanta PG(be it Hinrich or Bibby)all having double digit scoring. Johnson at 18.7 was still their leading scorer.

-Once Bibby went into a REAL decline and JJ has been their facilitator and leader in assists per game for the past three years causing him to look for his shot less and less. Yes he had a poor shooting year, happens to everyone. But he took less shots and had less free throws than in years past because he has had to transition to floor general since Bibby's game took a nosedive.

The guy is not in his prime anymore.

He shot below 30 % from three which is disgusting for a guy who shoots over 4 a game. As far as being a facilitator.. he averaged less assists this year then last. His points and shots might have dropped because his minutes did as well. True.

Main point though is he is not the same player as before. New system, new role, whatever it is... he declined last year. He seemed to settle more as well. Also his numbers almost across the board go down in the playoffs when his minutes go up. Historically this is true.

I like Johnson but as more of a #2 and not my feature guy and leader.

[Who]

Atlanta changed their offense last season.

Under Mike Woodson, they ran a lot of isolations that were primarily based around Joe Johnson and to a lesser extent Jamal Crawford. They maximized JJ's offensive contributions.

Under Larry Drew, the Hawks moved away from that structure and tried to install a motion based offense. The idea being to create a lot more ball and player movement + to get Horford and J.Smith more involved.

The Hawks previous offense had failed in back-to-back playoff losses to the Cavs and Magic. This was the reason for the change. The front office wanted someone to come in and change the way the offense was run.

Anyway, the result was that JJ's (and J.Crawford's) numbers slipped because they were no longer in a situation that was solely created to maximize their skill-sets.

[Kane3387]

Atlanta changed their offense last season.

Under Mike Woodson, they ran a lot of isolations that were primarily based around Joe Johnson and to a lesser extent Jamal Crawford. They maximized JJ's offensive contributions.

Under Larry Drew, the Hawks moved away from that structure and tried to install a motion based offense. The idea being to create a lot more ball and player movement + to get Horford and J.Smith more involved.

The Hawks previous offense had failed in back-to-back playoff losses to the Cavs and Magic. This was the reason for the change. The front office wanted someone to come in and change the way the offense was run.

Anyway, the result was that JJ's (and J.Crawford's) numbers slipped because they were no longer in a situation that was solely created to maximize their skill-sets.

Good stuff right there.

Still the 3 pt shooting? I don't get how he fell off that much but he was hurting his team by shooting 4 a game at 29.7%

[Who]

Atlanta changed their offense last season.

Under Mike Woodson, they ran a lot of isolations that were primarily based around Joe Johnson and to a lesser extent Jamal Crawford. They maximized JJ's offensive contributions.

Under Larry Drew, the Hawks moved away from that structure and tried to install a motion based offense. The idea being to create a lot more ball and player movement + to get Horford and J.Smith more involved.

The Hawks previous offense had failed in back-to-back playoff losses to the Cavs and Magic. This was the reason for the change. The front office wanted someone to come in and change the way the offense was run.

Anyway, the result was that JJ's (and J.Crawford's) numbers slipped because they were no longer in a situation that was solely created to maximize their skill-sets.

Good stuff right there.

Still the 3 pt shooting? I don't get how he fell off that much but he was hurting his team by shooting 4 a game at 29.7%

Very strange. No way to know for sure but I doubt that continues in the future.

JJ has been a very good three point shooter in years past.

[Kane3387]

one other factor i considered was the carlisle/gentry coaching matchup.  advantage carlisle (spurs)

Not a Gentry fan either. I am with Doc on this one.

‘Alvin Gentry was asking me for tickets for the first round of the playoffs,’ Garnett said after the game. ‘I told him I’ll hook him up, so that’s what that was.’ Celtics coach Doc Rivers shared his opinion on the exchange, saying he doesn’t believe in such behavior from coaches. ‘I thought their bench, their coaches were talking,’ Rivers said, ‘which I don’t think you should ever [do] if you have a suit and tie on and and actually can’t play. I don’t think you should be doing a lot of talking to the players on the floor. It’s just my opinion.’”

http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2011/03/doc-rivers-doesnt-appreciate-alvin-gentrys-trash-talk/

[Roy H.]

one other factor i considered was the carlisle/gentry coaching matchup.  advantage carlisle (spurs)

Not a Gentry fan either. I am with Doc on this one.

‘Alvin Gentry was asking me for tickets for the first round of the playoffs,’ Garnett said after the game. ‘I told him I’ll hook him up, so that’s what that was.’ Celtics coach Doc Rivers shared his opinion on the exchange, saying he doesn’t believe in such behavior from coaches. ‘I thought their bench, their coaches were talking,’ Rivers said, ‘which I don’t think you should ever [do] if you have a suit and tie on and and actually can’t play. I don’t think you should be doing a lot of talking to the players on the floor. It’s just my opinion.’”

http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2011/03/doc-rivers-doesnt-appreciate-alvin-gentrys-trash-talk/

The last part of that quote cracks me up, because of this:

[mgent]

I still don't understand why Calderon is starting and playing more minutes than Hill.  Care to explain your reasoning behind this?

[RebusRankin]

The gap between Lowrey and Westbrook is huge. I have an all-nba, IP has a guy who started the last 25 games of one season.

[Kwhit10]

Nuggets,

How do you see the big man matchups playing? What's your plan there defenisvely? Who guards who?

From last years playoffs kg and bosh played to a stand still offensively.  While  nene on big al had 17, 13, 28, 13 on 9, 8, 12 and 12 shots.

Big al had 17, 6, 28, 19 points on 13, 6, 20, 17.

nene gets his points while being extremely efficient. Big al needed a good chunk more shots.  its there enough bask to make him effective against  nene while having enough ball for davis, crawford, and pierce, and kg?