Trade ideas: Rondo should be untouchable

[jc3celticsphan]

but on to the shooting, rondo will get better but i dont think on jason kidds level he found his shot before rondo did.

  Just for reference, at Rondo's age Kidd was averaging 12 points and 9 assists while shooting .416 from the field and .313 on his threes.

yeah .313 was his second worst for kidd. and .313 has been rondos best since joining the league

[cman88]

IMO its not important that he develops a 3point shot as he does his mid-range game..

and that 41% kidd shot at Rondo's age would be the same Rondo shot from long range jumpers last year...if he can up that to 45% and be able to hit them when contested it will do wonders for our offense...and realistically thats achievable

[soap07]

This is one of the main reasons that I'm such an advocate of keeping Rondo.  He's bought into that identity from the very beginning of his career and doesn't know any other way to play NBA basketball.

As far as I'm concerned, Rondo's a definite keeper.

That's great, except you can get at least one point guard who's a significantly better player who can help the C's maintain that identity.

[LilRip]

i was basically agreeing that rondo shouldnt be traded, for any superstar, cp3 was just a name drop(people consider him a superstar)and  theres too much trade rondo for cp3 talks. in my opinion rondos a better all around player, as where cp3 is a good passer but most of his assist come from his ability to score, people sag off rondo and he is still able to make assist after assist, no its not because of the players around him i believe he can do this on any team, he makes these old guys on our team look good (not downing any of them). our offense struggles without rondo and the only other person that can create his shot is pierce. rondo and pierce are our superstars and thats all we need honestly its all about the supporting cast.

but my argument is dirk isnt the best player in the nba. the other guy basically try to say that dirk is a superstar, dirks superstar years are over hes a great clutch scorer thats a mismatch and thats about it.

also it takes good teamplay to not get blownout in that first half when your best player is struggling

superstars sell jerseys, TEAMS WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS

Dirk isn't the best player in the NBA, but he is a superstar. How is he not?? even our very own KG can't contain him and he's freakin' KG! i'm not too much of a stat junkie but i'll throw these out right now: 27.7/8.1/2.5, shooting 49% from the field, 46% from 3 and 94% from the FT. That's Dirk's stats in the playoffs. he is a mismatch every time he's on the floor. he's a superstar.

a lot of the Rondo backers here are touting Rondo's team-mentality, and that one poster was saying how it's great he shoots 41% from mid-range jumpers and if he could up that to 45% then he'd be terrific. Those are all true, and Rondo is a good player. Meanwhile, CP3 already shoots better AND has a team-mentality as well. Rondo is a better defender than CP3 but not by much. CP3 is a much better offensive player.

Their court vision is about equal though. You don't think CP3 can run our offense? It's a complicated offense and Rondo gets so many assists from running it, but it's also a product of our personnel. We couldn't run this type of offense in the Big Al days, even if they had Rondo's experience then. As you've said so many times, TEAMS matter so much. and i agree.

If you watched every game of that NOH-LAL series, whenever the ball was out of CP3's hands, the team looked absolutely lost. absolutely NO ONE could make a play, though Ariza would sometimes hit a lucky shot. but of course, let's all conveniently forget to mention that CP3 has no other playmaker on his team. Give CP3 other high BBIQ players (like RA,PP,KG) and he'd do great. Give Rondo a team of Bellinelli, Ariza, Landry and Okafor and he won't get past LAL either. They're both great players. CP3 is just better.

[jc3celticsphan]

i was basically agreeing that rondo shouldnt be traded, for any superstar, cp3 was just a name drop(people consider him a superstar)and  theres too much trade rondo for cp3 talks. in my opinion rondos a better all around player, as where cp3 is a good passer but most of his assist come from his ability to score, people sag off rondo and he is still able to make assist after assist, no its not because of the players around him i believe he can do this on any team, he makes these old guys on our team look good (not downing any of them). our offense struggles without rondo and the only other person that can create his shot is pierce. rondo and pierce are our superstars and thats all we need honestly its all about the supporting cast.

but my argument is dirk isnt the best player in the nba. the other guy basically try to say that dirk is a superstar, dirks superstar years are over hes a great clutch scorer thats a mismatch and thats about it.

also it takes good teamplay to not get blownout in that first half when your best player is struggling

superstars sell jerseys, TEAMS WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS

Dirk isn't the best player in the NBA, but he is a superstar. How is he not?? even our very own KG can't contain him and he's freakin' KG! i'm not too much of a stat junkie but i'll throw these out right now: 27.7/8.1/2.5, shooting 49% from the field, 46% from 3 and 94% from the FT. That's Dirk's stats in the playoffs. he is a mismatch every time he's on the floor. he's a superstar.

a lot of the Rondo backers here are touting Rondo's team-mentality, and that one poster was saying how it's great he shoots 41% from mid-range jumpers and if he could up that to 45% then he'd be terrific. Those are all true, and Rondo is a good player. Meanwhile, CP3 already shoots better AND has a team-mentality as well. Rondo is a better defender than CP3 but not by much. CP3 is a much better offensive player.

Their court vision is about equal though. You don't think CP3 can run our offense? It's a complicated offense and Rondo gets so many assists from running it, but it's also a product of our personnel. We couldn't run this type of offense in the Big Al days, even if they had Rondo's experience then. As you've said so many times, TEAMS matter so much. and i agree.

If you watched every game of that NOH-LAL series, whenever the ball was out of CP3's hands, the team looked absolutely lost. absolutely NO ONE could make a play, though Ariza would sometimes hit a lucky shot. but of course, let's all conveniently forget to mention that CP3 has no other playmaker on his team. Give CP3 other high BBIQ players (like RA,PP,KG) and he'd do great. Give Rondo a team of Bellinelli, Ariza, Landry and Okafor and he won't get past LAL either. They're both great players. CP3 is just better.

CP3 is a good player right now hes got the edge over rondo, and only because of his scoring ability. but rondo will be better then him  by the end of his career and he still does everything else better then cp3. their court vision is not equal rondo is the second best passer in the league after steve nash.

the numbers rondo put up in the beginning of the season were insane john stockton numbers. give rondo an athletic team and a dominant big man and he would average 15 assist a game garunteed! i dont wanna here that rondo got a better team excuse its killin me. because our offense is terrible without rondo on the floor. our vets had career highs in shooting this year because of rondo. the same rondo that averaged a triple double against the bulls without kg. everyone said it was one of the best playoff performances ever!

rondo made shaq look good this year **** you gotta give ariza and david west some credit they are good too. that hornets team aint all bad. david west would probly be the second best scorer on the celtics if he were here and they have a better center then us in okafor lets be real here.

[greg_kite]

I don't think anyone on any team should be untouchable.

If you could get Deron Williams for Rondo would you do it?  I would.  I would even throw in Green to get him.  There are plenty of players better than Rondo.

I think the Big Three are more untouchable.  Pierce should end his career as a Celtic.  Ray and KG too.  More for public relations than anything.  I would hate seeing any of those guys in another jersey.

[BballTim]

a lot of the Rondo backers here are touting Rondo's team-mentality, and that one poster was saying how it's great he shoots 41% from mid-range jumpers and if he could up that to 45% then he'd be terrific. Those are all true, and Rondo is a good player. Meanwhile, CP3 already shoots better AND has a team-mentality as well. Rondo is a better defender than CP3 but not by much. CP3 is a much better offensive player.

  Rondo's also a better rebounder. I agree that CP3 is a better offensive player compared individually to Rondo, but I think that Rondo's impact on an offense is somewhat similar to what you see from "better offensive guards".

If you watched every game of that NOH-LAL series, whenever the ball was out of CP3's hands, the team looked absolutely lost. absolutely NO ONE could make a play, though Ariza would sometimes hit a lucky shot.

  In other words, the Hornets without CP3 looked slightly worse or similar to the Celts without Rondo.

but of course, let's all conveniently forget to mention that CP3 has no other playmaker on his team. Give CP3 other high BBIQ players (like RA,PP,KG) and he'd do great. Give Rondo a team of Bellinelli, Ariza, Landry and Okafor and he won't get past LAL either. They're both great players. CP3 is just better.

  One thing that's worth considering is that if you put players on teams with better offensive players their stats generally go down a bit. CP3 gave you 16/10 last year. If he was on the Celts and they dropped somewhat how much better than the 11/11 that we got from Rondo would they be?

[soap07]

  Rondo's also a better rebounder. I agree that CP3 is a better offensive player compared individually to Rondo, but I think that Rondo's impact on an offense is somewhat similar to what you see from "better offensive guards".

16 point guards led their teams to better offenses than Rondo. Yes, part of that is offensive rebounding - but let's not pretend that this has nothing to do with turnovers and poor shooting from the point guard.

  In other words, the Hornets without CP3 looked slightly worse or similar to the Celts without Rondo.

Actually, no.

  One thing that's worth considering is that if you put players on teams with better offensive players their stats generally go down a bit. CP3 gave you 16/10 last year. If he was on the Celts and they dropped somewhat how much better than the 11/11 that we got from Rondo would they be?

How's that worth considering? It's not about the individual stats per se, although I don't believe that Rondo averages 10 assists on last year's Hornets team and I do think Paul's assists increase with the C's.

Paul would simply have a much larger impact on the team and make the offense better on the whole because he's significantly harder to guard.

[soap07]

their court vision is not equal rondo is the second best passer in the league after steve nash.

You're right in that it's not equal. Paul is a better passer for sure. The guy is averaging 10 assists a game for his career while being an exceptional scorer. He somehow averaged 10 assists a game last year with players slightly better than Ru Paul on the team.

[BballTim]

their court vision is not equal rondo is the second best passer in the league after steve nash.

You're right in that it's not equal. Paul is a better passer for sure. The guy is averaging 10 assists a game for his career while being an exceptional scorer. He somehow averaged 10 assists a game last year with players slightly better than Ru Paul on the team.

  If you look at CP3's effect on NO's efg% and % assisted baskets it was pretty much identical to Rondo's effect on the Celts this year. Rondo's teammates did shoot better than CP3's did but it's also true that they pass the ball more often than CP3's Ru Paul crew, often to the point that they're criticized for over-passing. Put CP3 on a team where he doesn't dominate the ball as much and his teammates, though better shooters, are less likely to just shoot the ball when he gives it to them. Does he get more assists or fewer?

[timepiece33]

I don't think anyone on any team should be untouchable.

If you could get Deron Williams for Rondo would you do it?  I would.  I would even throw in Green to get him.  There are plenty of players better than Rondo.

I think the Big Three are more untouchable.  Pierce should end his career as a Celtic.  Ray and KG too.  More for public relations than anything.  I would hate seeing any of those guys in another jersey.

Why would Deron Williams or Chris Paul sign here long term with an aging Big 3?

I get why people are saying they would trade him for Chris Paul or Deron Williams.  Personally, I believe both are better talents ... but neither is going to sign here long term with our current roster composition AND that risk is significant.   

[cman88]

Deron williams is a cancer in the locker-room. Think of all the players Jerry Sloan has dealt with in his long career...and this guy made him hang it up..and they traded him...why anyone would want that poor locker-room presence is beyond me.


Once again, people are talking about Chris paul NOW vs. Rondo NOW...sure Chris paul might have advantages now over rondo...but I feel Rondo has a higher ceiling at this point...and he's cheaper.

Instead of focusing on fixing a spot where we are already all set, why not look at fixing a spot at the 2,4,5 where we could use quality in the future?

[KungPoweChicken]

Deron williams is a cancer in the locker-room. Think of all the players Jerry Sloan has dealt with in his long career...and this guy made him hang it up..and they traded him...why anyone would want that poor locker-room presence is beyond me.


Once again, people are talking about Chris paul NOW vs. Rondo NOW...sure Chris paul might have advantages now over rondo...but I feel Rondo has a higher ceiling at this point...and he's cheaper.

Instead of focusing on fixing a spot where we are already all set, why not look at fixing a spot at the 2,4,5 where we could use quality in the future?

At this point, Rondo is what he is. He is not going to get noticeably better.

[jc3celticsphan]

  Rondo's also a better rebounder. I agree that CP3 is a better offensive player compared individually to Rondo, but I think that Rondo's impact on an offense is somewhat similar to what you see from "better offensive guards".

16 point guards led their teams to better offenses than Rondo. Yes, part of that is offensive rebounding - but let's not pretend that this has nothing to do with turnovers and poor shooting from the point guard.

  In other words, the Hornets without CP3 looked slightly worse or similar to the Celts without Rondo.

Actually, no.

  One thing that's worth considering is that if you put players on teams with better offensive players their stats generally go down a bit. CP3 gave you 16/10 last year. If he was on the Celts and they dropped somewhat how much better than the 11/11 that we got from Rondo would they be?

How's that worth considering? It's not about the individual stats per se, although I don't believe that Rondo averages 10 assists on last year's Hornets team and I do think Paul's assists increase with the C's.

Paul would simply have a much larger impact on the team and make the offense better on the whole because he's significantly harder to guard.

plain and simple cp3 on this team instead of rondo would not make a diffrence, his role would be the same as rondo and would pretty much be the same out come. Our offense running better with cp3 is false. Like isaid would havve the same role. Yes we would hit more open jumpshots but overall the same. What we don't get out of cp3 is rebounding and what rondo does on the defensive end. We have a scorer in our staring lineup in paul pierce. Chris paul is not needed.
I rather have the faster more athletic rondo with his monster wingspan causing havoc on defense. Its like rondo gets zero credit in these forums. The cp3 hype needs to stop because the dude ain't all that. Saying he's a better passer because he has less turnover is just crazy I see paul force up some stupid passes to bail himself out of a bad offesnsive posesion. I've seen cp3 play and he does not pass like rondo most off his passes are dump offs in the lane or a bounce pass nothing special. Too many people rely on stats to get their point across.. stats show me nothing but a number

[BballTim]

Deron williams is a cancer in the locker-room. Think of all the players Jerry Sloan has dealt with in his long career...and this guy made him hang it up..and they traded him...why anyone would want that poor locker-room presence is beyond me.


Once again, people are talking about Chris paul NOW vs. Rondo NOW...sure Chris paul might have advantages now over rondo...but I feel Rondo has a higher ceiling at this point...and he's cheaper.

Instead of focusing on fixing a spot where we are already all set, why not look at fixing a spot at the 2,4,5 where we could use quality in the future?

At this point, Rondo is what he is. He is not going to get noticeably better.

  He'll get better, whether some people will notice is probably debatable.