Trade ideas: Rondo should be untouchable

[BballTim]

Here is the catch:



Does Ainge believe this is when he can sell Rondo at a high value?

  If Rondo had a healthier season and playoffs his value would be higher, although it's hard to gauge how much higher.

This is true.  Although I would argue that he did not struggle long enough (been injured, whatever) for it to dramatically affect his value.  It was really just a couple bad months, and teams could very easily rationalize that away.

However, now he is in a position where, if he has another couple bad months, or that plantar fascitis continues to bother him, suddenly its more than a fluke, and that could cause his value to plummet. 

  I'm hoping that a fairly reEdited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.l summer will cure whatever ails him. That's the only upside of his injury, it will force him to rest for a while, something he barely did last offseason.

[jc3celticsphan]

[T halfquote author=wdleehi link=topic=48648.msg1024803#msg1024803 date=1308274212]

I love how everyone keeps saying that "top talent wins in the NBA," as if that were some sort of reason to get rid of Rondo. Yup, top talent wins alright, that's why the Miami Heat won the title.

This year proved that star power only gets you so far compared to good team play. Did you guys even WATCH the playoffs?

EXACTLY!!! i thought it would of sunk in by now i guess they already forgot the mavs won the title with an injured caron butler SMH

Good thing they had that bargain role player Dirk[/quote]

wasn't dirk 1for 12 in that first half of that last game and they still won? Thank god they got the allstars  jason terry and tyson chandler.

I like dirk and all but let's be real here, he's not the best player in the nba. Kg had a monster game against bosh too, injuries plagued us this year not having cp3 had nuthing to do with it.. if superstars win chapionships lebron shoulda been had one.  Shoot they shoulda went undefeated this year they had 2 superstars and an allstar

Ppl just take chemistry for granted

[timepiece33]

I like Paul, but I wonder what would possess him to stay long term with an aging core around him? 

I'd rather focus on trading some of the other parts that don't have long term contracts.

What could we get for Ray?

[ballin]

Honestly if we could trade Rondo for a really legit center I'd probably do it and just let Delonte handle the PG duties.

[paulcowens]

I agree.  One bad trade deserves another.

[LilRip]

[T halfquote author=wdleehi link=topic=48648.msg1024803#msg1024803 date=1308274212]

I love how everyone keeps saying that "top talent wins in the NBA," as if that were some sort of reason to get rid of Rondo. Yup, top talent wins alright, that's why the Miami Heat won the title.

This year proved that star power only gets you so far compared to good team play. Did you guys even WATCH the playoffs?

EXACTLY!!! i thought it would of sunk in by now i guess they already forgot the mavs won the title with an injured caron butler SMH

Good thing they had that bargain role player Dirk

wasn't dirk 1for 12 in that first half of that last game and they still won? Thank god they got the allstars  jason terry and tyson chandler.

I like dirk and all but let's be real here, he's not the best player in the nba. Kg had a monster game against bosh too, injuries plagued us this year not having cp3 had nuthing to do with it.. if superstars win chapionships lebron shoulda been had one.  Shoot they shoulda went undefeated this year they had 2 superstars and an allstar

Ppl just take chemistry for granted
[/quote]

what does this have to do with CP3?

as for Dirk's 1/12 in the first half of game 6, he bounced back and scored 17 points in the 2nd half of that game. Plus, he played great that entire series and the entire playoffs, and he came up big down the stretch every time (except when he missed that buzzer beater in game 3). You have certainly missed the original point of the post. One of the arguments presented for Rondo was that we shouldn't trade him because he's a bargain while CP3 is paid 17m. Someone rightfully countered that by saying that championships arent won because their players are bargains which is true.

but back to CP3, the argument that it was based on has no bearing (which is that "good thing Rondo is on a bargain deal!"). The Heat were a terrific team on D but weren't a team on offense. They were a couple of guys playing iso ball and passing when they needed to. So yes, it is very true that TEAMS win championships and chemistry is important. And Rondo is a terrific team player. But then again, so is CP3.

[jc3celticsphan]

[T halfquote author=wdleehi link=topic=48648.msg1024803#msg1024803 date=1308274212]

I love how everyone keeps saying that "top talent wins in the NBA," as if that were some sort of reason to get rid of Rondo. Yup, top talent wins alright, that's why the Miami Heat won the title.

This year proved that star power only gets you so far compared to good team play. Did you guys even WATCH the playoffs?

EXACTLY!!! i thought it would of sunk in by now i guess they already forgot the mavs won the title with an injured caron butler SMH

Good thing they had that bargain role player Dirk

wasn't dirk 1for 12 in that first half of that last game and they still won? Thank god they got the allstars  jason terry and tyson chandler.

I like dirk and all but let's be real here, he's not the best player in the nba. Kg had a monster game against bosh too, injuries plagued us this year not having cp3 had nuthing to do with it.. if superstars win chapionships lebron shoulda been had one.  Shoot they shoulda went undefeated this year they had 2 superstars and an allstar

Ppl just take chemistry for granted

what does this have to do with CP3?

as for Dirk's 1/12 in the first half of game 6, he bounced back and scored 17 points in the 2nd half of that game. Plus, he played great that entire series and the entire playoffs, and he came up big down the stretch every time (except when he missed that buzzer beater in game 3). You have certainly missed the original point of the post. One of the arguments presented for Rondo was that we shouldn't trade him because he's a bargain while CP3 is paid 17m. Someone rightfully countered that by saying that championships arent won because their players are bargains which is true.

but back to CP3, the argument that it was based on has no bearing (which is that "good thing Rondo is on a bargain deal!"). The Heat were a terrific team on D but weren't a team on offense. They were a couple of guys playing iso ball and passing when they needed to. So yes, it is very true that TEAMS win championships and chemistry is important. And Rondo is a terrific team player. But then again, so is CP3.

[/quote] i was basically agreeing that rondo shouldnt be traded, for any superstar, cp3 was just a name drop(people consider him a superstar)and  theres too much trade rondo for cp3 talks. in my opinion rondos a better all around player, as where cp3 is a good passer but most of his assist come from his ability to score, people sag off rondo and he is still able to make assist after assist, no its not because of the players around him i believe he can do this on any team, he makes these old guys on our team look good (not downing any of them). our offense struggles without rondo and the only other person that can create his shot is pierce. rondo and pierce are our superstars and thats all we need honestly its all about the supporting cast.

but my argument is dirk isnt the best player in the nba. the other guy basically try to say that dirk is a superstar, dirks superstar years are over hes a great clutch scorer thats a mismatch and thats about it.

also it takes good teamplay to not get blownout in that first half when your best player is struggling

superstars sell jerseys, TEAMS WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS

[cman88]

I dont think that alot of fans realize that the only reason that the "Big 3" era has been extended and the reason they havent seen any decline is BECAUSE of Rajon Rondo.

when rondo was out with Nate playing point, and when Delonte was playing point against the heat, our offense was horrible. the fact is our big 3 just cant create consistent offense anymore

rondo is responsible for 40% of our team points between assists and scoring...thats huge. KG, RA, PP have been shooting alot of open jumpers this year, and getting easy layups and thats in large part because of Rondo.

also, people talk on this site as if Rondo is some old aging player whom has reached his ceiling. Rondo is only 25 and has improved each year in his passing, shooting etc. he shot a career high 41% from long jumpers last year...on a career high attempts...if he can get that up to 45% next year(pretty realistic) and still hit at 41% when contested that makes us alot deadlier...and his shot WILL become consistent

people forget that when Jason Kidd came into the league alot of people called him "ason" because he didnt have a "J" well, now hes #3 on three poitners made...so a shot can be developed. and anyone can see that

[jc3celticsphan]

I dont think that alot of fans realize that the only reason that the "Big 3" era has been extended and the reason they havent seen any decline is BECAUSE of Rajon Rondo.

when rondo was out with Nate playing point, and when Delonte was playing point against the heat, our offense was horrible. the fact is our big 3 just cant create consistent offense anymore

rondo is responsible for 40% of our team points between assists and scoring...thats huge. KG, RA, PP have been shooting alot of open jumpers this year, and getting easy layups and thats in large part because of Rondo.

also, people talk on this site as if Rondo is some old aging player whom has reached his ceiling. Rondo is only 25 and has improved each year in his passing, shooting etc. he shot a career high 41% from long jumpers last year...on a career high attempts...if he can get that up to 45% next year(pretty realistic) and still hit at 41% when contested that makes us alot deadlier...and his shot WILL become consistent

people forget that when Jason Kidd came into the league alot of people called him "ason" because he didnt have a "J" well, now hes #3 on three poitners made...so a shot can be developed. and anyone can see that

agreed. once rondo starts shooting well people will forget they ever wanted him traded

he is the smartest pg in the nba, he's an on the court coach when hes in, his play calling helps us so much. what people dont realize is hes not realy an iso player. he wont iso and create an open shot for others he likes to call his plays and find mismatches. most of the time he does create a shot for others is in transition where hes an absolute asassin best fastbreak pg in the league it use to be jason kidd untill he lost a step but rondo in the open court is a forsure highlight.

but on to the shooting, rondo will get better but i dont think on jason kidds level he found his shot before rondo did.

give rondo a dominant bigman in the paint you seen what he did with shaq, shaq played out of his mind and when the diesel played for lebron i didnt see him play that well at all

dwight + rondo = multi rings

[Celtics18]

No he shouldnt.

For example,if DA could do a ROndo, Ray Allen, s&t Glenn Davis  to OKC for Westbrook and Harden, Id take it in a heartbeat.

Teams enter decline for reasons explained specifically by DA. That owners and management refuse to make cold hard decisions that benefit the franchise.

Rondo has a great contract and is a fantastic piece to build around another superstar. That makes him very tradeable. It doesnt necessarily make him the piece to start building with here.

The team is not just old, but its identity needs to be rebuilt. Westbrook is immature, but has more upside than Rondo. He can learn to play within team and pass the ball. In fact Westbrook can do Rondo. Rondo cant do Westbrook.

But the trades for Rondo are very few because you need an upgrade. Not a sideways move.

Why would you want the Celtics to change their identity?  They are a team built on sharing the ball offensively and playing tough, gritty defense. 

I love that identity, and don't want to see it change even as many of the players inevitably will. 

This is one of the main reasons that I'm such an advocate of keeping Rondo.  He's bought into that identity from the very beginning of his career and doesn't know any other way to play NBA basketball.

As far as I'm concerned, Rondo's a definite keeper.

[BballTim]

but on to the shooting, rondo will get better but i dont think on jason kidds level he found his shot before rondo did.

  Just for reference, at Rondo's age Kidd was averaging 12 points and 9 assists while shooting .416 from the field and .313 on his threes.

[Inside-Out]

Love Rondo, but if there's a 2-for-1 out there, I'd have to at least consider it, i.e. Rondo for :

D.Harris and Paul Milsap (plus filler) (two borderline all stars--you've got to consider it)

Minny might be able and willing to trade two-for-one to get a vet like Rondo, too...Rubio/Beasley/Randolph or other pieces...you consider it.

Nobody is untouchable...but the price might be up there just to start the conversation.

[timepiece33]

Nobody is untouchable, but Rondo should be close.

No way would I do Milsap and Harris for Rondo.   IMO, you get a considerabe downgrade offensively and defensively at the PG position (defense is our mantra) for a backup PF? 

No thanks.   I'm fine if they consider trading Ray Allen and other considerations to secure a guy like a Rudy Gay.   

[Inside-Out]

Nobody is untouchable, but Rondo should be close.

No way would I do Milsap and Harris for Rondo.   IMO, you get a considerabe downgrade offensively and defensively at the PG position (defense is our mantra) for a backup PF? 

No thanks.   I'm fine if they consider trading Ray Allen and other considerations to secure a guy like a Rudy Gay.   

It would be smart to at least consider trading an all-star for two potential all-stars, though, right?  There is a possible deal out there where the C's take on a little risk for a possible home run?  With a team like Minny or Sacramento?

[BballTim]

Nobody is untouchable, but Rondo should be close.

No way would I do Milsap and Harris for Rondo.   IMO, you get a considerabe downgrade offensively and defensively at the PG position (defense is our mantra) for a backup PF? 

No thanks.   I'm fine if they consider trading Ray Allen and other considerations to secure a guy like a Rudy Gay.   

It would be smart to at least consider trading an all-star for two potential all-stars, though, right?  There is a possible deal out there where the C's take on a little risk for a possible home run?  With a team like Minny or Sacramento?

  First of all Milsap is 25 and Harris is 27, Milsap will probably improve some but I wouldn't count on getting more from Harris than NJ or Utah did. Secondly in the NBA trading one good player for two decent players is generally seen as a downgrade.