Trade ideas: Rondo should be untouchable

[StartOrien]

Haha. Funny how that Cavs defense looked fine until they ran into Rondo. The Cavs were playing great ball, unlike those Lakers who limped into the playoffs and got swept in the next round. And you missed one major difference between the two, the Lakers managed to slow down CP3 and win, the Cavs were unable to control Rondo and lost.

  Hint: calling someone a Rondo super fan doesn't really build a case in your favor, but I understand it was all you had left. Saying Rondo could never do what CP3 did vs the Lakers is roughly akin to saying PP could never be a Finals MVP.

I disagree with your argument, and I disagree even more with the way you present it. I respect your fandom, but I think it is making you blind to what should be an obvious point: A healthy Chris Paul will always be better than Rajon Rondo.

I don't wish to continue this debate, and won't be responding further. Good night, and good luck.

[BballTim]

Haha. Funny how that Cavs defense looked fine until they ran into Rondo. The Cavs were playing great ball, unlike those Lakers who limped into the playoffs and got swept in the next round. And you missed one major difference between the two, the Lakers managed to slow down CP3 and win, the Cavs were unable to control Rondo and lost.

  Hint: calling someone a Rondo super fan doesn't really build a case in your favor, but I understand it was all you had left. Saying Rondo could never do what CP3 did vs the Lakers is roughly akin to saying PP could never be a Finals MVP.

I disagree with your argument, and I disagree even more with the way you present it. I respect your fandom, but I think it is making you blind to what should be an obvious point: A healthy Chris Paul will always be better than Rajon Rondo.

  Yes, you seem to believe that your statement is true even when it isn't. Chris Paul is a great player but Rondo's very good in his own right. Chris Paul is a better player than Deron Williams and Derrick Rose. That doesn't mean he *always* plays better than them, it means that he generally plays better than them Same with Paul and Rondo. It's tough to digest but it's true, in fact it's fairly obvious.

  By the way, if you're going to go around calling people ignorant or attribute their opinions to "super-fandom" then complaining about the tone of the replies you receive is somewhat nonsensical.

[StartOrien]

In reviewing those highlights mixes and a few more, here's an interesting thought I had: Rondo benefits greatly from his teammates, his highlights come in the flow of the offense and a lot of things come off the threat of his teammates ability (that's not meant to be a knock on him, that's what you'd want most of the time). Whereas CP3 really kinda has to create everything for him and his teammates.

In a hypothetical trade, I wonder how each would adapt.

[wdleehi]

Here is the catch:



Does Ainge believe this is when he can sell Rondo at a high value?

[Rondo2287]

Here is the catch:



Does Ainge believe this is when he can sell Rondo at a high value?

Bingo, I think given rondo's level of play and cheap contract he would be an incredibly attractive asset for most teams

[StartOrien]

Here's my chief concern about rebuilding around Rondo:

This team almost seems tailor made for him offensively, and it's still failed to consistently perform at a high level. In order to compete for a championship the future Celtics would need to have the same kind firepower that it currently has, and I'm not sure you can feel confident in being able to accomplish that.

[MBunge]

I'm not sure why people feel like it's somehow decisive that Paul is better than Rondo.  It's not.  What's at issue is HOW MUCH Paul is better than Rondo, because there is no way in h-e-double-hockey-sticks that NO would trade Paul for Rondo straight up and salary cap rules prevent Boston from doing that even if they wanted to.

At minimum, the deal would have to be something like Rondo, Baby, Green, a sign-n-trade with Delonte and a couple of first round picks for Paul.  More likely, Boston would have to part with Rondo, Ray Allen, Baby and a pick for Paul and Okafor's huge contract.

The question is whether Paul, right now, is still such a transcendent talent that he's worth completely gutting the bench and giving away two first round picks in the post Big 3 era or breaking up the Big 3 and crippling the long-term salary structure.  Chris Paul 3 years ago was worth that.  Chris Paul this past season, even the Paul from the Lakers series where he clearly wore down by the end, is not worth that.

Mike

[StartOrien]

because there is no way in h-e-double-hockey-sticks that NO would trade Paul for Rondo straight up and salary cap rules prevent Boston from doing that even if they wanted to.

If New Orleans isn't convinced they can keep Paul - and I don't think they can - why would they not take a young, allstar point guard, on a good contract. Money-wise Rondo and Green for Paul matches, and if you throw in the Clippers #1 that should be enough to get it done.

For New Orleans, the only conflict they might have is they might want to look at a different suitor who'd be able to eat either Okafor or Ariza's contract. If I'm New Orleans, I hold onto Okafor because I think you could get something for him (a heavily protected first), but I could see why they might make a push to get rid of him in any cp3 trade.

[paulcowens]

Chris Paul is a great player.  I think Rondo is a better player.   It's a team game, and Rondo is one of the few who seems to understand that to his bones.   If Rondo ever improves his shooting, people will look back on arguments like this and just laugh.

But scoring impresses people, and the bird in the bush always looks sooooooo much prettier.  We are so familiar with Rondo's faults and we haven't had to live with Chris Paul's faults.  And we are all really frustrated with how this year turned out, and somehow it's easier to scapegoat the players than it is to point the finger of blame where it belongs (take a bow, Danny), and so Baby and Rondo  are plastered on everyone's dart board.

So yeah, let's go ahead and get rid of the key guy on our starting unit AND the key guy on our bench, so we can feel better.  For five minutes.

[paulcowens]

In reviewing those highlights mixes and a few more, here's an interesting thought I had: Rondo benefits greatly from his teammates, his highlights come in the flow of the offense and a lot of things come off the threat of his teammates ability (that's not meant to be a knock on him, that's what you'd want most of the time). Whereas CP3 really kinda has to create everything for him and his teammates.

In a hypothetical trade, I wonder how each would adapt.

As I see it, the thing to consider is this:  maybe part of the reason Chris Paul has to do it all, is that he's used to doing it all.  Maybe he's not as good a facilitator for the rest of the team as a guy like Rondo is.   

[StartOrien]

In reviewing those highlights mixes and a few more, here's an interesting thought I had: Rondo benefits greatly from his teammates, his highlights come in the flow of the offense and a lot of things come off the threat of his teammates ability (that's not meant to be a knock on him, that's what you'd want most of the time). Whereas CP3 really kinda has to create everything for him and his teammates.

In a hypothetical trade, I wonder how each would adapt.

As I see it, the thing to consider is this:  maybe part of the reason Chris Paul has to do it all, is that he's used to doing it all.  Maybe he's not as good a facilitator for the rest of the team as a guy like Rondo is.   

I'd look at supporting cast - Rondo has had the help of Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett and Perk/Shaq/JO, while Chris Paul has the help of Marco Bellineli, Trevor Ariza, David West/Aaron Gray and Emeka Okafor.

[BballTim]

In reviewing those highlights mixes and a few more, here's an interesting thought I had: Rondo benefits greatly from his teammates, his highlights come in the flow of the offense and a lot of things come off the threat of his teammates ability (that's not meant to be a knock on him, that's what you'd want most of the time). Whereas CP3 really kinda has to create everything for him and his teammates.

In a hypothetical trade, I wonder how each would adapt.

As I see it, the thing to consider is this:  maybe part of the reason Chris Paul has to do it all, is that he's used to doing it all.  Maybe he's not as good a facilitator for the rest of the team as a guy like Rondo is.   

I'd look at supporting cast - Rondo has had the help of Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett and Perk/Shaq/JO, while Chris Paul has the help of Marco Bellineli, Trevor Ariza, David West/Aaron Gray and Emeka Okafor.

  You also have to consider that the arguments for CP3 over Rondo are based on Paul's individual production, and putting primary offensive players with better teammates generally causes their productivity (not their efficiency) to drop.

[BballTim]

Here's my chief concern about rebuilding around Rondo:

This team almost seems tailor made for him offensively, and it's still failed to consistently perform at a high level. In order to compete for a championship the future Celtics would need to have the same kind firepower that it currently has, and I'm not sure you can feel confident in being able to accomplish that.

  Any team with shooters and bigs athletic enough to catch a pass or finish an alley-oop would be tailor made for Rondo in the half court. This team isn't tailor made for Rondo in the sense that he's among the best transition guards in the league and he's saddled with players who can't run with him. They're a good mix with him in the half court but on the break he's like a Porsche hitched to a rather large trailer.

[BballTim]

Here is the catch:



Does Ainge believe this is when he can sell Rondo at a high value?

  If Rondo had a healthier season and playoffs his value would be higher, although it's hard to gauge how much higher.

[Chris]

Here is the catch:



Does Ainge believe this is when he can sell Rondo at a high value?

  If Rondo had a healthier season and playoffs his value would be higher, although it's hard to gauge how much higher.

This is true.  Although I would argue that he did not struggle long enough (been injured, whatever) for it to dramatically affect his value.  It was really just a couple bad months, and teams could very easily rationalize that away.

However, now he is in a position where, if he has another couple bad months, or that plantar fascitis continues to bother him, suddenly its more than a fluke, and that could cause his value to plummet. 

So, if there are deals on the table this summer that Danny likes for him, then I think he needs to pull the trigger then, because he would be taking a risk waiting longer.

But with that said, the right deals need to be there.  Whether his value is high or low is somewhat important, but what is more important is the timing of when the right package is available.  His value could be through the roof, but if other teams are not ready to play, then its not going to happen.

Ultimately, it is just a very delicate situation.  I think Danny should, and will, be open to trading anyone at any time, if the right deal presents itself.  But I also don't think he should or will force anything.  He is just as comfortable shuffling the deck as he is letting things play out, it all depends on what shows up at his door.