Seriously... how did the Mavs just punk LeBron like that?

[LarBrd33]

Look I know 99.9% of this forum hates LeBron... the jealousy on this board is outrageous.  I know it's popular to say he's overrated and a jerk.  That's fine... but for a second let's step into reality and come to a consensus that he's an incredible basketball player.  

What the heck just happened?  

I know the popular thing is to say that LeBron is a choke and that he quit on his team last year against Boston... Ok... let's set that as the bar for "quitting on his team".  He "quit on his team" while averaging 27 points, 9.3 rebounds, 7.2 assists, 1.3 blocks, 2.2 steals against the Celtics in that series.  In the final game of that series, he had 27 points, 19 rebounds and 10 assists... all while quitting on his team.

In 08 we beat LeBron thanks to a miracle performance by Paul Pierce.  A 5 point victory in game 7.  A couple balls bounce differently and we never win a title.  LeBron put up 45, 6 and 5 in that final game.  

In 09 when LeBron lost to the Magic, he averaged 38.5 points, 8.3 rebounds and 8 assists.


This year, he managed to completely DESTROY both the Celtics and the Bulls.  Just ate both teams alive.   Then he runs into the Dallas Mavericks and THIS happens???  He averaged 17.8 points in the finals.  He scored 8 points in game 4.  He only took 15 shots in the final game.  This isn't like last year... this is unbelievable.   I was completely shocked.  I figured Miami would lose, but I still expected LeBron to go down scoring 40 points in a losing effort.  

17.8 points, 7 rebounds and 7 assists in this series.   That's not the LeBron i've been seeing for the past 8 years.  Not even the one who "quit on his team" last year against Boston.  This was surreal.  Thoughts?

[Onslaught]

To me James is a freak of nature physically. But I'm not sure he's got that same "killer" instinct like Bird, Kobe or Jordan had. I'm also not sold on the fact that he's got as high a basketball IQ as guys like that too.

Could it be that he's not as good as people make him out to be? Or not yet anyway?

[CelticG1]

I agree completely.

I don't know what just happened and never saw it coming.

Along with the claims of him "choking" and "shrinking in the moment" I also think the claims of Dallas defense being the reason to be ridiculous as well.

It was just pretty incredible how poorly he played in this series. My guesses for this are:

A:Personal issues/problems going on outside of basketball. and

B: Getting run into the ground all season and playoffs by his coach. The way he plays defense and how often he has the ball in his hands and expected to make plays on offense I think that could have definitely caught up with him. If he played defense like Dirk (aka no effort) I'm sure he would have a lot more energy on offense to get stuff going.  

[nickagneta]

Look I know 99.9% of this forum hates LeBron... the jealousy on this board is outrageous.  I know it's popular to say he's overrated and a jerk.  That's fine... but for a second let's step into reality and come to a consensus that he's an incredible basketball player.  

What the heck just happened?  

I know the popular thing is to say that LeBron is a choke and that he quit on his team last year against Boston... Ok... let's set that as the bar for "quitting on his team".  He "quit on his team" while averaging 27 points, 9.3 rebounds, 7.2 assists, 1.3 blocks, 2.2 steals against the Celtics in that series.  In the final game of that series, he had 27 points, 19 rebounds and 10 assists... all while quitting on his team.

In 08 we beat LeBron thanks to a miracle performance by Paul Pierce.  A 5 point victory in game 7.  A couple balls bounce differently and we never win a title.  LeBron put up 45, 6 and 5 in that final game.  

In 09 when LeBron lost to the Magic, he averaged 38.5 points, 8.3 rebounds and 8 assists.


This year, he managed to completely DESTROY both the Celtics and the Bulls.  Just ate both teams alive.   Then he runs into the Dallas Mavericks and THIS happens???  He averaged 17.8 points in the finals.  He scored 8 points in game 4.  He only took 15 shots in the final game.  This isn't like last year... this is unbelievable.   I was completely shocked.  I figured Miami would lose, but I still expected LeBron to go down scoring 40 points in a losing effort.  

17.8 points, 7 rebounds and 7 assists in this series.   That's not the LeBron i've been seeing for the past 8 years.  Not even the one who "quit on his team" last year against Boston.  This was surreal.  Thoughts?

Thoughts? Yeah, Lebron has issues that don't hit the public and it causes him to become disinterested and unmotivated and then he blames other.

He was accused of quitting on his team last year not because of game 6 but because of games 4 and 5. In game 4 he went 7-18 for 22 points and had 7 turnovers. In game 5 he was 3-14 for 15 points. He showed reluctance to shoot the ball in both games, constantly passing when wide open and showed a complete lack of desire to get under the boards and bang for the ball.

Does that sound familiar? It should. Its the same Lebron that showed up in games 4, 5 and 6 in this years Finals.

[Onslaught]

Along with the claims of him "choking" and "shrinking in the moment" I also think the claims of Dallas defense being the reason to be ridiculous as well.

I'm not so sure about that. They kicked the crap out of the Lakers. They put the clamps on the Thunder and just made the Heat look like fools. You have to give them credit.

[get_banners]

Also, the law of averages played out. LeBron is nowhere near as good a shooter (same with Wade) as he was vs. us and Chicago. Both of those guys shot contested jumpers that they should never make. Both of them missed a lot of the same shots in the Finals (which was expected). The zone defense also helped, but worked largely because LeBron and Wade kept shooting jumpers they thought would go in, even though they should have known better.

[CelticG1]

Along with the claims of him "choking" and "shrinking in the moment" I also think the claims of Dallas defense being the reason to be ridiculous as well.

I'm not so sure about that. They kicked the crap out of the Lakers. They put the clamps on the Thunder and just made the Heat look like fools. You have to give them credit.

Full credit to Dallas but I was definitely more impressed with their offense than their defense. The Heat are a pretty exceptional defensive team and extremely athletic and with an old team like Dallas you think they would have had trouble.

They weren't terrible on defense but I wouldn't say they were suffocating Lebron.

[mgent]

Ever heard of the law of averages?  LeBron isn't gonna hit contested fade-away 3s all day.  He's good, but he's not that good.  Why are you so surprised that a good team could beat him?  It's happened so many times before.

[CelticG1]

Yeah law of averages. I guess that is a little where I was coming form with the fatigue factor. Playing 45 min a night for as hard as he does on both sides of the floor and the way he dominates the ball and already dispatching the Celts and Bulls on some ridiculous shots and comeback games. Think about games 4 and 5 with us. You can say that the Heat deserved them but I think we win those games 9 out of 10 times if the situations come up again. Game 4 that ridiculous 3 pointer by Lebron, Rondo missing a wide open layup and then the Celtics botching the final play of regulation. Then in game 5 being up by whatever amount and blowing the game.

[kn 99]

I dont think its anything speacial. shawn marion and the mavs d did a great job forcing many turnovers by lebron and wade.

[Fan from VT]

I know how this is going to go over REALLY well on this board, but really, the refs really favored dallas this series. That was a big part of it.

[LB3533]

With the series tied 2-2....Games 5 through 6:

The Mavs shot the 3 ball: 24-45 (53%) as a team

The Heat shot the 3 ball: 15-43 (35% as a team

Factor in the Mavs' zone and you just basically took one of Miami's biggest weapons out of the game: Free Throws.

So Miami isn't hitting from the perimeter, their best players aren't getting to the line like they normally are because the paint is more closed off than usual...and when Miami did get to the line like in Game 6, they missed a bunch of free throws.

The Mavs on the other hand, and more specifically Dirk, could miss a lot of shots early in the game, but as long as they got to the line late and still make their clutch 3's....they were able to put points on the board.

[CelticSooner]

Ever heard of the law of averages?  LeBron isn't gonna hit contested fade-away 3s all day.  He's good, but he's not that good.  Why are you so surprised that a good team could beat him?  It's happened so many times before.

This is how I see it. It's a hyperbole to say the Heat destroyed the C's and Bulls. The largest margin of victory in both series was 11 points. Heat got hot at the right time and hit some ridiculous shots leading up to the Finals. Those jump shots stopped falling and they ran into the best offensive team in the playoffs. Things could very well be different had the Heat not choked in Game 2. That's when everything changed.

[mgent]

Ever heard of the law of averages?  LeBron isn't gonna hit contested fade-away 3s all day.  He's good, but he's not that good.  Why are you so surprised that a good team could beat him?  It's happened so many times before.

This is how I see it. It's a hyperbole to say the Heat destroyed the C's and Bulls. The largest margin of victory in both series was 11 points. Heat got hot at the right time and hit some ridiculous shots leading up to the Finals. Those jump shots stopped falling and they ran into the best offensive team in the playoffs. Things could very well be different had the Heat not choked in Game 2. That's when everything changed.

Not to mention the fact that the refs cut short every run the Celtics made, starting with Pierce getting thrown out.

[Marcus13]

That's what happens when you force LeBron into taking jump shots.  Rotate quickly and protect the paint and LeBron isn't going to beat you