Seriously... how did the Mavs just punk LeBron like that?

[Fafnir]

I know how this is going to go over REALLY well on this board, but really, the refs really favored dallas this series. That was a big part of it.

I don't think the officials favored Dallas so much as they didn't have their usual collective Jackson/VanGundy chills up their legs every time the messiah or curly touched the basketball.

The messiah wasn't getting every single call and was getting called for things he virtually never gets called for in this series.  IMHO, when the messiah was sorta kinda getting officiated unlike the messiah...He looked completely confused and exhasperated.  Much like Pierce does when the officials call a travel on him.  IMHO, when the messiah had to start playing basketball by the rules....(He's probably forgotten more NBA rules than he remembers because they never applied to him).  IMHO, the messiah was disheartened and confused by the sudden level playing field.

That's why I hate these freaking star calls in the first place.  The messiah has been blessed with the greatest physical gifts in sports' history.  He also has an incredibly high basketball IQ.  If he wasn't regularly allowed to take 3-4-5 steps without a dribble and barrel to the basket....He would develop the mid-range and post game that Kerr and CO says he needs.   There'd be no stopping him at all.  

As it is....Stern and the officials created their messiah....And it's Stern and the officials holding him back.  He could be 10 times the player he is on a level playing field.

I don't think LeBron was officiated any differently than he has been in the past. He displayed a complete lack of aggression on drives into the lane, the Refs still gave him the calls when he did.

Dirk after all was called the same way he always was.

[JoT]

Anybody read Bill Simmons' theory over at Grantland?

I'll quote the relevant bits:

You could say Dallas figured out how to defend him (to a degree, true), that the zone screwed him up (I guess), that Shawn Marion got into his head (possible), but really, he was afraid to attack the rim for whatever reason. Which, by the way, is his single greatest skill.

Will we ever figure out what happened to this guy in the Finals? Allow me to offer two dopey theories for what happened, and only because I believe everything HAS to be explained and can't accept a world in which things don't have an answer …
THEORY A

Remember when Wade tore into LeBron with three-plus minutes remaining in Game 3? When he yelled at him for eight solid seconds? When there was genuine anger in his eyes? When he did it right on the court, right in front of the other players, right in front of 20,000 fans and 10 million TV viewers?

LeBron was never the same after that.

When was the last time anyone ever really yelled at LeBron James? You'd have to go back to high school, right? He just spent the past 10 years being coddled by everyone (teammates, coaches, agents, entourage members, yes-men, general managers, owners, media members, etc.). Imagine he was a little kid (which really, he might be to some degree), and imagine you were his father and didn't believe in yelling at your kids. Now, imagine your kid screwed up in his second-grade play and, for whatever reason, you broke character, snapped, and berated him for eight seconds in front of everyone. How would he handle that? Poorly, right? He'd pretend it didn't affect him, but the more he thought about it, it would gnaw away at him (especially once his buddies said, "I can't believe your dad yelled at you like that").

Could that have been what happened to LeBron? Did those eight seconds shake his confidence beyond repair? Did he resent Wade for embarrassing him? Did he think to himself, "Fine, you want to act like this is your team, then YOU win this title?" I believe every basketball champion needs a pecking order of sorts; that's just what the history of the league told us. Miami tried to cheat this concept by putting two of the league's best three players on the same team. It worked for 8½ months; LeBron and Wade ran the team together and deferred to one another depending on the moment. Then the Finals rolled around, Wade kicked it up another gear, LeBron didn't do the same, Wade called him out … and the team was NEVER the same. These are the facts.
THEORY B

Passed along by a friend of mine in NBA circles: LeBron caved from the never-ending scrutiny (as brutal as any athlete has ever faced in the Internet era) and his shaky inner circle, which consists of one parent (his mother, who battled a ton of problems over the years), his high school friends (who assumed an inordinately crucial role in his life without any real experience), his agents (who never threw their bodies in front of "The Decision"), and Miami's management (who walked him into another fiasco with the Heat's Welcome Party). By all accounts, he's a genuinely nice and happy guy who just wants to be liked — he was never meant to be a villain, and as much as he tried to feed off the heat (no pun intended), once it piled up past a certain point, he broke. Maybe he felt that happening against the 2010 Celtics as well; maybe that's why he chose to play with Wade in the first place.

And maybe that's why, right now, he's in total denial. Even in the postgame presser, when he should have been devastated the same way Magic Johnson was distraught after coming up small in the 1984 Finals, LeBron was doing the Frank Drebin "Nothing to see here, please disperse" routine, bristling at the notion that he choked and taking shots at anyone who rooted against him. That's what you do when you're surrounded by enablers — you blame everyone else, and you never look within. He never understood that people only rooted against him because that's what you do when someone boasts before they've ever actually done anything.

Let's say you're in college and one of your buddies says, "See that girl over there? I'm taking her home tonight. And I'm doing this because I'm the funniest and best-looking guy in this room." And let's say he's COMPLETELY serious. Guess what you're doing if it doesn't happen? You're making fun of him. Relentlessly. Really, that's what 50 percent of the Miami-related vitriol was about; the other 50 percent was because LeBron tried to stack the deck by playing with his biggest rival (we didn't respect it), and because he broke Cleveland's hearts on national TV (we didn't like it). To this day, LeBron hasn't shown any real regret about last summer; that's the main reason everyone rooted against him. He couldn't handle it. He caved. And now we're here.

So it's Theory A or Theory B, or maybe both, or maybe neither. As I wrote last Wednesday, I don't know why I care so much. Maybe it's because I know LeBron might be the most talented player I will ever watch, the Wilt of this generation, and I'm going to end up being p---ed off that he never reached his potential and took me to a higher place as a sports fan … which is only the entire reason we watch sports in the first place, right? Because we don't know what's going to happen next, and because once in a while, someone shows up who's so good and so talented that he makes us say, "I know what's going to happen next?" Like he's giving us sports fan ESP? The best thing about Jordan's final shot wasn't that he made it, but that we knew he would make it. That's why we revere him all these years later. Usually heroes come through only on command in movies; Jordan did it in real life. We loved him for it.

LeBron? We thought he was next. Then he fell apart against Boston. Then he chose to play with his buddy instead of beating him. Then he fell apart again. Forget about him losing; we're losing, too. Nobody has ever fully explained that part to LeBron. We rooted against him this season because it's fun to have villains in sports, and because it's fun to see an overly confident person gets his or her comeuppance. Not because we hated his guts. There will be a day when we root for LeBron James again. You wait.

Considering this guy knows significantly more than any of us about basketball, I think he has a point.

I agree with both of his reasons for why he played badly.

To the OP no one punked LeBron, he didn't show up when needed the most and choked in the 4th quarter after game 3. He was called out by both Terry and Deshawn Stevenson (whom he does not like and vice-versa) and I thought then he was show up and prove their trash talk as wrong, but he didn't.
LeBron while athletically gifted is not mentally there for crunch time games. He has no killer instinct when the stage is huge. In my opinion when pressure such as this season is on him, he runs away and hides.
LeBron can't handle pressure and to me that was mostly on him and the team talking all that mess they did before the season started. They should have handled themselves like how Boston did in 07-08. If they did, the pressure of them going towards their words wouldn't have been that huge and I think when Scottie said what he said about him being better than Jordan, that hit him too and put more pressure than him.

[chambers]

Lebron is the most overhyped player of all time.

He's got nothing on Paul Pierce or Dr J or Scottie Pippen or Dominique Wilkins or James Worthy or Bird. 


People have GOT to stop thinking of him as great.

I've said it before and I'll say it again.  Vince Carter folks. Vince Carter with 10 times the hype machine. 

Stop looking at the stats. Stop looking at the commercials and look at the results. This guy just led a team with Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh to a dominant trouncing and made themselves morons during it.

And I don't want to hear how the players around him are so bad. I know Eddie House isn't bad. Udonis Haslem isn't bad. Mario Chalmers isn't bad. Mike Miller isn't bad. This is just hype and Nike trying to hide the tape to get you to buy shoes

alot of what you're saying is true regarding the hype, but this kid is going to be one of the GOAT's.
He was exhausted by the finals. He carried the team all the way to the finals and they came up against an extremely good team who's lone superstar was on FIRE for the entire playoffs.
Wade decided to hog the ball a lot more in the finals for some reason and this hurt the Heat more than anything. His repetitive isolations just killed his teams flow and chemistry- they never got in a rhythm after game 4 and Wade was the chief antagonist for this- not Lebron.
Dallas were the perfect team to beat the heat with their zone and their pick and rolls against that brutal defense.

The Vince Carter comparison is just plain rude.
Okay he's not MJ but he's most certainly not Vince Carter.
I'd put him in between someone like Magic Johnson and Clyde Drexler- or a bit higher than their level.
MJ didn't win his first title till he was like 27 right?
Plenty of time for him to prove himself.
I was surprised they made it this far this season with all those crappy role players.
They had the best defense in the league and not a single center. They had a 6 foot 9 power forward playing center and they made the NBA finals. Imagine if they had someone that could compete with Chandler in the paint.

Everyone's entitled to their opinions but don't overreact by calling him a failure. His legacy has just begun.
wait till he's at least 30 years old.

First off eja says some stuff that I agree with(the hype machine, Heat surrounding cast not being awful) and some stuff I don't(Vince?) but in making the Vince comparison I think what he's trying to say is Lebron is a stats and me first guy and lacks that....something.....that guys like McGrady, Vince, and others lack that is the drive to sacrifice to win it all.

But chambers....putting Magic on the same level as Drexler might be just as bad saying LeBron is on Vince's level. Magic, Bird, MJ, Wilt, Russell, Kareem, Oscar....those are the best ever. Drexler isn't anywhere near that level. Kobe...maybe. Shaq...possibly. Hakeem...very close. Drexler??? No. No way.

I still think Lebron might not win any rings unless Wade gets him there. They are both the same type player and without sacrifice they won't win it all. Wade has that...something...to come up big at big times and carry a team when they most need to be carried. I don't see that in Bron Bron.

Still, there's not a huge amount of superstar talent on the horizon for the NBA and in a few years he might win one or two. Or if the new CBA causes teams like the heat to disassemble, maybe he won't

Sorry I worded my reply wrong. I meant that Lebron at this point in his career is somewhere BETWEEN Magic and Drexler.

Magic being an all time legend -who is slightly below Jordan, and Drexler being one of the top 3 of his era.

I can't really agree with the Vince Carter comparisons because guys like Mcgrady and Vince were really only good at one thing- scoring.
LBJ is one of the greatest passers of all time and his stats blow McGrady and Vince out of the water.
The problem he's having is maintaining those stats throughout a 7 game finals series OR having adequate support for at least 4 of those 7 games when he's not firing 100%.

[nickagneta]

Lebron is the most overhyped player of all time.

He's got nothing on Paul Pierce or Dr J or Scottie Pippen or Dominique Wilkins or James Worthy or Bird. 


People have GOT to stop thinking of him as great.

I've said it before and I'll say it again.  Vince Carter folks. Vince Carter with 10 times the hype machine. 

Stop looking at the stats. Stop looking at the commercials and look at the results. This guy just led a team with Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh to a dominant trouncing and made themselves morons during it.

And I don't want to hear how the players around him are so bad. I know Eddie House isn't bad. Udonis Haslem isn't bad. Mario Chalmers isn't bad. Mike Miller isn't bad. This is just hype and Nike trying to hide the tape to get you to buy shoes

alot of what you're saying is true regarding the hype, but this kid is going to be one of the GOAT's.
He was exhausted by the finals. He carried the team all the way to the finals and they came up against an extremely good team who's lone superstar was on FIRE for the entire playoffs.
Wade decided to hog the ball a lot more in the finals for some reason and this hurt the Heat more than anything. His repetitive isolations just killed his teams flow and chemistry- they never got in a rhythm after game 4 and Wade was the chief antagonist for this- not Lebron.
Dallas were the perfect team to beat the heat with their zone and their pick and rolls against that brutal defense.

The Vince Carter comparison is just plain rude.
Okay he's not MJ but he's most certainly not Vince Carter.
I'd put him in between someone like Magic Johnson and Clyde Drexler- or a bit higher than their level.
MJ didn't win his first title till he was like 27 right?
Plenty of time for him to prove himself.
I was surprised they made it this far this season with all those crappy role players.
They had the best defense in the league and not a single center. They had a 6 foot 9 power forward playing center and they made the NBA finals. Imagine if they had someone that could compete with Chandler in the paint.

Everyone's entitled to their opinions but don't overreact by calling him a failure. His legacy has just begun.
wait till he's at least 30 years old.

First off eja says some stuff that I agree with(the hype machine, Heat surrounding cast not being awful) and some stuff I don't(Vince?) but in making the Vince comparison I think what he's trying to say is Lebron is a stats and me first guy and lacks that....something.....that guys like McGrady, Vince, and others lack that is the drive to sacrifice to win it all.

But chambers....putting Magic on the same level as Drexler might be just as bad saying LeBron is on Vince's level. Magic, Bird, MJ, Wilt, Russell, Kareem, Oscar....those are the best ever. Drexler isn't anywhere near that level. Kobe...maybe. Shaq...possibly. Hakeem...very close. Drexler??? No. No way.

I still think Lebron might not win any rings unless Wade gets him there. They are both the same type player and without sacrifice they won't win it all. Wade has that...something...to come up big at big times and carry a team when they most need to be carried. I don't see that in Bron Bron.

Still, there's not a huge amount of superstar talent on the horizon for the NBA and in a few years he might win one or two. Or if the new CBA causes teams like the heat to disassemble, maybe he won't

Sorry I worded my reply wrong. I meant that Lebron at this point in his career is somewhere BETWEEN Magic and Drexler.

Magic being an all time legend -who is slightly below Jordan, and Drexler being one of the top 3 of his era.

I can't really agree with the Vince Carter comparisons because guys like Mcgrady and Vince were really only good at one thing- scoring.
LBJ is one of the greatest passers of all time and his stats blow McGrady and Vince out of the water.
The problem he's having is maintaining those stats throughout a 7 game finals series OR having adequate support for at least 4 of those 7 games when he's not firing 100%.

Vince Carter in his best days was 25-27 PPG, 5-6 RPG, 5 APG.

Tracy McGrady is his best days was 27-30 PPG, 7-8 RPG, 5-6 APG.

LeBron is a 27-30 PPG, 7-8 RPG, 7-8 APG player.

Vince was a better shooter and McGrady as good if not better than Lebron.

None of them have won a ring. All were major headaches for their coaches.

I can see where the comparisons have some merit, especially if Lebron never wins a ring.

[Roy H.]

Lebron has already had WAY more playoff success than either TMac or Vince.  He wilted, but I think it's extremely unfair to compare Lebron to those career losers.

[mc34]

I believe Lebron began to question his role in this series. After being the man against us and Chicago, Wade took the reins against Dallas. It was pretty obvious whose team it was. Plus that whole incident where Wade was chewing out Lebron on national TV. Lebron's a really good player but I don't think he'll ever be Jordan. The Pippen role almost seems degrading for a player of his talent, I'm starting to think Lebron should try to embrace more of a Magic Johnson-type role.

[cman88]

Lebron played passive, but at the same time Carlise made a good adjustment that Doc never did when playing the heat....he played Chandler ALOT even when the heat were going small...he helped keep lebron/wade out of the paint..and the zone pretty much relegated them to jumpers

for whatever reason, DOC decided to match Miami and play small and Lebron/Wade got the paint/line at Ease with BBD in there...JO shouldve played bigger minutes in that series. when he was out there, the celtics got stops

[Eja117]

Lebron has already had WAY more playoff success than either TMac or Vince.  He wilted, but I think it's extremely unfair to compare Lebron to those career losers.

TMac is maybe a little extreme. (It's on me!).   But you trade Vince in his prime for Bron straight up now and Vince is probably polishing off his new championship ring.  Or at least not disappearing in the 4th quarter.

[LilRip]

I don't think this is fair bashing of tmac. Other than one year (i think?), none of his teams were supposed to win their series. If KG never got traded out of Minny, you guys might be putting him in the same category as Tmac and Vince which is also really untrue.

Vince chokes (like Lebron). Tmac is just injured and with a poorer supporting cast.

and i can't believe people are still insinuating that Lebron's team didn't rise to the occasion when he wasn't "firing at 100%" or something. on paper, he had the SUPERIOR team, by far! House looked great when he was with us. Joel Anthony had the highest +/- at one point in the playoffs. Haslem outworked and flat-out defended Dirk back in 06. Wade, Bosh, they're perennial all-stars. Put Lebron on that Mavs team with a supporting cast of old man Kidd, Stevenson, Marion, Chandler and Terry off the bench, and we'll hear the same excuse that we did in Cleveland which is, "his supporting cast is just not good enough!", when in truth, it actually is.

[Onslaught]

Lebron has already had WAY more playoff success than either TMac or Vince.  He wilted, but I think it's extremely unfair to compare Lebron to those career losers.

TMac is maybe a little extreme. (It's on me!).   But you trade Vince in his prime for Bron straight up now and Vince is probably polishing off his new championship ring.  Or at least not disappearing in the 4th quarter.

I'm not sold on that. All Vice could do was jump out of the roof. He's made a life out of being a looser.

[oldmanspeaks]

I don't think that King James has a willpower problem. He has a brainpower problem. He doesn't know how to adjust to how he is being played. For instance you don't start a drive on Kidd at 25 feet when Kidd knows where the help is coming. You have to be within 15 and make one long step before the defense can adjust. And if he has Barea in a switch he has to go straight for the hoop, etc,etc. If LBJ doesn't have a obvious advantage, he seemingly looks lost and just passes the ball. I seriously doubt his ability to analyze his opponent. As an old super slow short fat guy, I have to continually adjust to my opponent to make myself a threat. King James has 1000 times more talent and yet I see openings he overlooks.

[OsirusCeltics]

Cause he's not that good of a player
His game is not built for half-court pressure basketball in the NBA Finals
He has no offensive game, relies on athleticism to be effective on the court
You can't dunk on people and go for chase down blocks when the game slows down

[Roy H.]

Lebron has already had WAY more playoff success than either TMac or Vince.  He wilted, but I think it's extremely unfair to compare Lebron to those career losers.

TMac is maybe a little extreme. (It's on me!).   But you trade Vince in his prime for Bron straight up now and Vince is probably polishing off his new championship ring.  Or at least not disappearing in the 4th quarter.

How soon we forget Vince's clutch performance against us last year, where he shot 36% from the field, was terrible on defense, and bricked some clutch FTs.  Lebron James has more clutchness in his elbow than Vince does in his entire body.

[BballTim]

Lebron played passive, but at the same time Carlise made a good adjustment that Doc never did when playing the heat....he played Chandler ALOT even when the heat were going small...he helped keep lebron/wade out of the paint..and the zone pretty much relegated them to jumpers

for whatever reason, DOC decided to match Miami and play small and Lebron/Wade got the paint/line at Ease with BBD in there...JO shouldve played bigger minutes in that series. when he was out there, the celtics got stops

  I think that the broken bones in his wrist JO suffered against the Knicks limited him more than Doc did.

[OsirusCeltics]

Lebron played passive, but at the same time Carlise made a good adjustment that Doc never did when playing the heat....he played Chandler ALOT even when the heat were going small...he helped keep lebron/wade out of the paint..and the zone pretty much relegated them to jumpers

for whatever reason, DOC decided to match Miami and play small and Lebron/Wade got the paint/line at Ease with BBD in there...JO shouldve played bigger minutes in that series. when he was out there, the celtics got stops

  I think that the broken bones in his wrist JO suffered against the Knicks limited him more than Doc did.

Then he shouldn't have suited up
If you're on the court, you're healthy
Thats Doc's stubborness right there