2011 CB Historical Draft - Draft Thread

[GreenFaith1819]

Honestly, at this point, I think the votes are going where they will so I am just talking but, Hakeem, as talented as he was, I think, played in a watered down league which enhances his standing because people don't realize this.

For instance, Cowens won an MVP in 1972-73 while being a 6'9" center with such talent at the big man position as Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Spencer Haywood, Wes Unseld, Willis Reed, Nate Thurmond, Bob Lanier, Walt Bellamy, Connie Hawkins, Clifford ray, Bob Love, Bob McAdoo,  and Elmore Smith and he had to play one or two of these guys every game because there were only 17 teams.

In Hakeem's prime(1993-94) there were 27 teams and just not nearly as many top quality big men in the league or that many quality big men per team.

Yet, people will downplay Cowens as a player and yet enhance Hakeem in this endeavor yet I think Cowens played better competition on a nightly basis, most of the time against bigger players and dominated that league that year and for many years and Hakeem is held as one of the best ever.

I just don't think the older players get quite the respect they deserve and that newer players get way more than they deserve.

It's a good thing I have them both.

Good Points, Nick and KC.

[KCattheStripe]

FWIW, Hakeem played against Ewing, Robinson, Shaq, Mourning and a huge crop of talented Power Forwards.

[indeedproceed]

In Hakeem's prime(1993-94) there were 27 teams and just not nearly as many top quality big men in the league or that many quality big men per team.

Hakeem's prime was 1 year?

Patrick Ewing, David Robinson, Dikembe Mutombo, Shaq, Vlade Divac..that's 5 probable HOF centers right there. I wouldn't say there was a dearth of big men.

[KCattheStripe]

In Hakeem's prime(1993-94) there were 27 teams and just not nearly as many top quality big men in the league or that many quality big men per team.

Hakeem's prime was 1 year?

Patrick Ewing, David Robinson, Dikembe Mutombo, Shaq, Vlade Divac..that's 5 probable HOF centers right there. I wouldn't say there was a dearth of big men.

Plus Malone, Kemp, Barkley, Larry Johnson, Rodman and others.

[KCattheStripe]

In Hakeem's prime(1993-94) there were 27 teams and just not nearly as many top quality big men in the league or that many quality big men per team.

Hakeem's prime was 1 year?

Patrick Ewing, David Robinson, Dikembe Mutombo, Shaq, Vlade Divac..that's 5 probable HOF centers right there. I wouldn't say there was a dearth of big men.

I think he meant "Best Year/ Year KC chose" by "Prime". but your point is still valid.

[Moranis]

I find it a little odd to call the 90's a watered down league.  Yes there were more teams, but that really just made the bottom of the league worse.  The playoff teams by and large were every bit as good as the playoff teams in the 80's.  There was certainly a transition as the great teams of the 80's got old, but one could certainly argue that the Jazz, Suns, Sonics, Magic, Rockets, Knicks, and of course Bulls of the mid-90's were every bit as talented as the Sixers, Lakers, Celtics, Bucks, and Pistons of the mid-80's.  

In fact Michael Jordan was so good, I could certainly argue his Bulls (especially the last three-peat) were the best team since the Russell Celtics.  

[KCattheStripe]

I find it a little odd to call the 90's a watered down league.  Yes there were more teams, but that really just made the bottom of the league worse.  The playoff teams by and large were every bit as good as the playoff teams in the 80's.  There was certainly a transition as the great teams of the 80's got old, but one could certainly argue that the Jazz, Suns, Sonics, Magic, Rockets, Knicks, and of course Bulls of the mid-90's were every bit as talented as the Sixers, Lakers, Celtics, Bucks, and Pistons of the mid-80's.  

In fact Michael Jordan was so good, I could certainly argue his Bulls (especially the last three-peat) were the best team since the Russell Celtics.  

I can't go as far as he does. But I'd say they were just as good as the Bucks from the 80s.

[nickagneta]

In Hakeem's prime(1993-94) there were 27 teams and just not nearly as many top quality big men in the league or that many quality big men per team.

Hakeem's prime was 1 year?

Patrick Ewing, David Robinson, Dikembe Mutombo, Shaq, Vlade Divac..that's 5 probable HOF centers right there. I wouldn't say there was a dearth of big men.

yet there were 27 teams instead of 17 and yet a same 82 games schedule. Do the math. Cowens played better competition way, way more often and still was dominat and yet nowadays is given a lot less credit than someone like Hakeem because Hakeem was bigger and seen in a much more popular league in a time where being able to watch NBA basketball is more prevalent and in a more watered down league.

I saw talk of Cowens at PF earlier in this thread and then Cownes go to the bench for KC but in all honesty, Cowens was an awesome center playing against consistently great competition EVERY night. I don't think he got his just due.

[nickagneta]

I find it a little odd to call the 90's a watered down league.  Yes there were more teams, but that really just made the bottom of the league worse.  The playoff teams by and large were every bit as good as the playoff teams in the 80's.  There was certainly a transition as the great teams of the 80's got old, but one could certainly argue that the Jazz, Suns, Sonics, Magic, Rockets, Knicks, and of course Bulls of the mid-90's were every bit as talented as the Sixers, Lakers, Celtics, Bucks, and Pistons of the mid-80's.  

In fact Michael Jordan was so good, I could certainly argue his Bulls (especially the last three-peat) were the best team since the Russell Celtics.  

I can't go as far as he does. But I'd say they were just as good as the Bucks from the 80s.

Which I think says and awful lot considering how far the Bucks of the 80's got.

[nickagneta]

In Hakeem's prime(1993-94) there were 27 teams and just not nearly as many top quality big men in the league or that many quality big men per team.

Hakeem's prime was 1 year?

Patrick Ewing, David Robinson, Dikembe Mutombo, Shaq, Vlade Divac..that's 5 probable HOF centers right there. I wouldn't say there was a dearth of big men.

I seriously doubt Motumbo and Divac ever sniff the HOF.

[KCattheStripe]

In Hakeem's prime(1993-94) there were 27 teams and just not nearly as many top quality big men in the league or that many quality big men per team.

Hakeem's prime was 1 year?

Patrick Ewing, David Robinson, Dikembe Mutombo, Shaq, Vlade Divac..that's 5 probable HOF centers right there. I wouldn't say there was a dearth of big men.

I seriously doubt Motumbo and Divac ever sniff the HOF.

Basketball HoF, Divac absolutely could. 2 silvers and 2 fiba titles.

[nickagneta]

In Hakeem's prime(1993-94) there were 27 teams and just not nearly as many top quality big men in the league or that many quality big men per team.

Hakeem's prime was 1 year?

Patrick Ewing, David Robinson, Dikembe Mutombo, Shaq, Vlade Divac..that's 5 probable HOF centers right there. I wouldn't say there was a dearth of big men.

I seriously doubt Motumbo and Divac ever sniff the HOF.

Basketball HoF, Divac absolutely could. 2 silvers and a fiba title.

His HOF probability on basketball-reference.com  is one tenth of one percent, and their formula is usually really accurate.

[KCattheStripe]

In Hakeem's prime(1993-94) there were 27 teams and just not nearly as many top quality big men in the league or that many quality big men per team.

Hakeem's prime was 1 year?

Patrick Ewing, David Robinson, Dikembe Mutombo, Shaq, Vlade Divac..that's 5 probable HOF centers right there. I wouldn't say there was a dearth of big men.

I seriously doubt Motumbo and Divac ever sniff the HOF.

Basketball HoF, Divac absolutely could. 2 silvers and a fiba title.

His HOF probability on basketball-reference.com  is one tenth of one percent, and their formula is usually really accurate.

None of their predictors have anything to do with international success.Sergei A Belov probably wouldn't have ranked at all, but he's in the Hall.

[nickagneta]

In Hakeem's prime(1993-94) there were 27 teams and just not nearly as many top quality big men in the league or that many quality big men per team.

Hakeem's prime was 1 year?

Patrick Ewing, David Robinson, Dikembe Mutombo, Shaq, Vlade Divac..that's 5 probable HOF centers right there. I wouldn't say there was a dearth of big men.

I seriously doubt Motumbo and Divac ever sniff the HOF.

Basketball HoF, Divac absolutely could. 2 silvers and a fiba title.

His HOF probability on basketball-reference.com  is one tenth of one percent, and their formula is usually really accurate.

None of their predictors have anything to do with international success.Sergei A Belov probably wouldn't have ranked at all, but he's in the Hall.

Vlade played 16 years in the NBA. He's not like Arvidis Sabonis who played some here and some there. Particularly his entire work as a basketball player was in the NBA. He's not making the Hall for a couple of international summer tourneys.

He was a great passing center that was mediocre in every other facet of his game. He's just not Hall worthy. And neither is Dikembe or most centers that were playing against Hakeem in his prime in the 90's on a night in and night out basis.

[indeedproceed]

In Hakeem's prime(1993-94) there were 27 teams and just not nearly as many top quality big men in the league or that many quality big men per team.

Hakeem's prime was 1 year?

Patrick Ewing, David Robinson, Dikembe Mutombo, Shaq, Vlade Divac..that's 5 probable HOF centers right there. I wouldn't say there was a dearth of big men.

I seriously doubt Motumbo and Divac ever sniff the HOF.

Mutumbo's in, come on. 8 straight all-stars, 4 DPOY's with 3 consecutive, 2nd all-time in blocks?

How is that guy gonna miss the Hall, coupled with the fact that everyone loves him and he's a charity monster when it comes to his homeland. He's a homerun if I ever heard it!