2011 CB Historical Draft - Draft Thread

[GreenFaith1819]

I personally don't see KG as a viable option at SG.  He simply didn't have the speed and quickness to defend all-time greats at the position.

Garnett is 7-1 with long arms. He has the quickness to stand off of them and defend them effectively that way.

Especially at that 03-04 season I picked.

[Roy H.]

I personally don't see KG as a viable option at SG.  He simply didn't have the speed and quickness to defend all-time greats at the position.

Garnett is 7-1 with long arms. He has the quickness to stand off of them and defend them effectively that way.

I guess I fall back on my old adage:  if KG could have played SG, he would have played SG.  He didn't, and it's my belief that's because his coaching staff believed he couldn't.

KG was extremely athletic for a PF, but as a SF he would have struggled against quick athletic guys like Dominique, Lebron, etc.  As a SG defending guys like Jordan and Kobe, it would be much worse. 

I think playing KG out of position takes away his biggest strength:  his quickness advantage over other PFs.  He goes from an extremely athletic PF to a mediocre SF to a poor SG.

I really like GF's combination of Kareem and KG up front.  I think anything that breaks that up ultimately weakens the team.

[Roy H.]

I personally don't see KG as a viable option at SG.  He simply didn't have the speed and quickness to defend all-time greats at the position.

Garnett is 7-1 with long arms. He has the quickness to stand off of them and defend them effectively that way.

Especially at that 03-04 season I picked.

I think you're misremebering, and maybe romanticizing KG's athleticism a bit.  He was an athletic freak, but never could have kept up with Prime Jordan, Prime Kobe, etc.

I guess I don't understand the desire to be clever with lineups, and play guys out of position.  KG is regarded as a top-five PF of all-time for a reason:  because he played PF.  It just seems weird to take him out of his position of greatest strength.

[Rondo2287]

I personally don't see KG as a viable option at SG.  He simply didn't have the speed and quickness to defend all-time greats at the position.

Garnett is 7-1 with long arms. He has the quickness to stand off of them and defend them effectively that way.

I guess I fall back on my old adage:  if KG could have played SG, he would have played SG.  He didn't, and it's my belief that's because his coaching staff believed he couldn't.

KG was extremely athletic for a PF, but as a SF he would have struggled against quick athletic guys like Dominique, Lebron, etc.  As a SG defending guys like Jordan and Kobe, it would be much worse. 

I think playing KG out of position takes away his biggest strength:  his quickness advantage over other PFs.  He goes from an extremely athletic PF to a mediocre SF to a poor SG.

I really like GF's combination of Kareem and KG up front.  I think anything that breaks that up ultimately weakens the team.

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[Who]

I am not saying play Garnett at the two full time. But situationally as a lineup that is very difficult to matchup against? Yes, he has value there.

Especially in this setting where you can surround him with quality team defenders + keep two shot blockers at the rim to meet dribble penetration when he does get beat by quicker players.

[GreenFaith1819]

I personally don't see KG as a viable option at SG.  He simply didn't have the speed and quickness to defend all-time greats at the position.

Garnett is 7-1 with long arms. He has the quickness to stand off of them and defend them effectively that way.

Especially at that 03-04 season I picked.

I think you're misremebering, and maybe romanticizing KG's athleticism a bit.  He was an athletic freak, but never could have kept up with Prime Jordan, Prime Kobe, etc.

I guess I don't understand the desire to be clever with lineups, and play guys out of position.  KG is regarded as a top-five PF of all-time for a reason:  because he played PF.  It just seems weird to take him out of his position of greatest strength.

Well, see - that's the nature of this draft.

While most of it is based on potential, a good percentage is based on pure fantasy - with every roster listed here.

The truth is that Kevin Garnett did in fact play all positions in Minny..I am sure he spent most of his time at PF, though.

But Flip Saunders did in fact allow KG to do that in Minny, and in limited spots KG did well.

For this Draft here? Sure KG could play limited min at SG/SF spots.

And he had the length and quickness to defend those spots for an extended amount of time.

What makes KG even more elite for me is that while being a lockdown defender on just about ANY player here in this draft, is that his offensive contributions wouldn't be limited at all.

KG would be able to get his 23 pts, 12 rebs, 2 blocks, 1.5 steals, 5 assists - while locking down on a problem PG-SG-SF-PF on the opposing team.

This, in turn, allows our OTHER Elite Defenders (GP, Dumars, Coop in limited min at SF) to lock down the other 2-3 spots.

And again - with GP and Coop - they would still be able to get their offense. In the year I chose for Coop (86-87) he averaged over 13 pts in the playoffs - OFF THE BENCH

AND - in playing KG at the 2, we can bring in Prime Jermaine O'Neal to play PF and keep Kareem (or Sampson) at C.

That is a LOT of length and Skill on the floor at one time.

Or bring in Ben Wallace at PF for yet another lockdown defender and elite rebounder at PF.

[GreenFaith1819]

I am not saying play Garnett at the two full time. But situationally as a lineup that is very difficult to matchup against? Yes, he has value there.

Especially in this setting where you can surround him with quality team defenders + keep two shot blockers at the rim to meet dribble penetration when he does get beat by quicker players.

Absolutely.

And there are not many prime players out there who would just blow by KG.

And if they did, they always had to look in their rear-view mirrors for KG's long arms to deflect their shot attempts from behind.

KG and Hakeem are very unique for this draft, in that they both can cover so much floor with their ability.

A video reminder below. KG covers so much ground and even chased down a few players on some players here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrGJxcYxUDg

[Roy H.]

The truth is that Kevin Garnett did in fact play all positions in Minny..I am sure he spent most of his time at PF, though.

But Flip Saunders did in fact allow KG to do that in Minny, and in limited spots KG did well.

For this Draft here? Sure KG could play limited min at SG/SF spots.

And he had the length and quickness to defend those spots for an extended amount of time.

What makes KG even more elite for me is that while being a lockdown defender on just about ANY player here in this draft, is that his offensive contributions wouldn't be limited at all.

I just don't think this is true.

For instance, look here:

http://82games.com/03MIN12C.HTM

According to that, KG played *zero* minutes at either SG or PG in 2004, and very limited time at SF or C.  

I think it's a huge, HUGE stretch to say that KG can defend any player in this draft.  KG was a good defender, but he wasn't *that* good.  Guys like Dominique, Lebron, Jordan, Kobe, even Vince Carter would leave him in their dust.

I personally think the idea to ask KG to guard SGs or PGs(!!) is a very, very bad one.

[Who]

Kevin Garnett (SF) + Ben Wallace (PF) = best forward duo in terms of defense and rebounding

[Roy H.]

Kevin Garnett (SF) + Ben Wallace (PF) = best forward duo in terms of defense and rebounding

Rebounding, yes.  I think the SF defense is going to suffer against quicker, athletic SFs.

I think GF's traditional lineup of Kareem/KG/Worthy/Dumars/Payton is his best one, both offensively and defensively.  It forms a cohesive unit.  I think getting clever is going to hurt the team.

[GreenFaith1819]

So Roy - please take a look at that vid and post to me that KG couldn't defend all spots...

My word..he covered 4 ft in 2 sec, and then jumped high to block a Prime Shawn Marion's shot there at the end of that vid.

A game-winning Defensive play - on a quick SF.

Look at block number 9...not sure who that player was but he looked to be SF (or Guard) sized. And KG hounded him all the way to the basket to send it back.

He chased down Andre Miller and pinned it on the backboard.

He yet again crossed over the lane 4 ft and blocks Prime Carmelo Anthony's shot.

Yes - KG can cover any player in this format - even for extended minutes.

[GreenFaith1819]

Kevin Garnett (SF) + Ben Wallace (PF) = best forward duo in terms of defense and rebounding

Rebounding, yes.  I think the SF defense is going to suffer against quicker, athletic SFs.

I think GF's traditional lineup of Kareem/KG/Worthy/Dumars/Payton is his best one, both offensively and defensively.  It forms a cohesive unit.  I think getting clever is going to hurt the team.

But again - in limited situations such a lineup can be used.

Again - with the setting here being fantasy, while applying what we remember from these player's primes.

[Who]

I think GF's traditional lineup of Kareem/KG/Worthy/Dumars/Payton is his best one, both offensively and defensively.  It forms a cohesive unit.  I think getting clever is going to hurt the team.

Agreed and it will and should be his most used lineup.

I don't like Joe Dumars starting but there is nobody else on the roster I like better there.

[Who]

Kevin Garnett (SF) + Ben Wallace (PF) = best forward duo in terms of defense and rebounding

Rebounding, yes.  I think the SF defense is going to suffer against quicker, athletic SFs.

I couldn't disagree more about Garnett's ability to play the SF position full time + his ability to defend the position at an elite level.

[GreenFaith1819]

The truth is that Kevin Garnett did in fact play all positions in Minny..I am sure he spent most of his time at PF, though.

But Flip Saunders did in fact allow KG to do that in Minny, and in limited spots KG did well.

For this Draft here? Sure KG could play limited min at SG/SF spots.

And he had the length and quickness to defend those spots for an extended amount of time.

What makes KG even more elite for me is that while being a lockdown defender on just about ANY player here in this draft, is that his offensive contributions wouldn't be limited at all.

I just don't think this is true.

For instance, look here:

http://82games.com/03MIN12C.HTM

According to that, KG played *zero* minutes at either SG or PG in 2004, and very limited time at SF or C.  

I think it's a huge, HUGE stretch to say that KG can defend any player in this draft.  KG was a good defender, but he wasn't *that* good.  Guys like Dominique, Lebron, Jordan, Kobe, even Vince Carter would leave him in their dust.

I personally think the idea to ask KG to guard SGs or PGs(!!) is a very, very bad one.

Roy - KG was (and still is) an Elite Defender, not just good.

And the players you mentioned (VC, Nique, Lebron, Jordan) would get hounded by KG in this setting - to the point where KG is filtering them right into the waiting arms of Kareem, Ben Wallace or Jermaine O'Neal.

KG was/is that smart. Comparisons to Russell are not far off.

I'm sure there were some who could go by KG in this setting, but they'd have yet another defensive wall facing them.