2011 CB Historical Draft - Draft Thread

[nickagneta]

Poor Moses getting no love.  11 straight seasons of 20+ ppg, including a 31 ppg season.  All 11 also had 11+ boards a game.  


And Paul and Pierce will easily be able to exploit Nash/Wade.  I have no question in my mind about that.

Dwade's best season is better offensively and defensively than Pierce's.

Wade can't guard Pierce in the post.

I don't remember the 2001 version of Paul Pierce posting up a lot of people. He slashed and shot from three a WHOLE bunch. But I don't remember him posting up people back then as much as I do when he transitioning from SG to SF in the mid 2000s. Doesn't mean he didn't have it in him, I just don't remember it being part of his game back then.

[nickagneta]

Gotta say another team that almost made my top 5 was Denver except I am not a fan of Hayes. he wasn't a team player until Wes Unseld influenced him and even then, they didn't like each other. He didn't get along with coaches or team mates and was usually a problem. Stories I have read made me think he was the 70's version of Allen Iverson only playing PF. He was a black hole for much of his career on the court.

No denying the man's talent but like Dominique, like Iverson, and like some others that have yet to be drafted, I'm not crazy about Hayes in this type of all-star team setting.

That was only like 4 years after he came into the league, were all of your players at their ultimate teammate potential their rookie year?  Plus that's not even an issue in a "pick one year" exercise.

I've never heard anything that makes him even close to as bad as AI.  What makes you say that?

This is his nba.com bio and nba.com very seldom says something not so flattering about their all time greats:

http://www.nba.com/history/hayes_bio.html

You want more about these stories of Hayes and his problems on and off the court, they are easy to find. Google Elvin Hayes reputation

It basically says he liked to speak his mind because he was a victim of racism as a youth so his dad taught him to always demand respect.

As for googling "Elvin Hayes reputation," nothing came up.

He seems like the typical famous Larry Bird-type jerk who probably treated his trainers like crap because he didn't think he could learn anything from him.  What makes him any worse than half the first round picks?

I mean really, with Kobe available to take shots at, how are you gonna call Elvin Hayes a "problem."

Also, out of curiosity, does Rodman take your team out of the running?  Are you planning on drafting Jack Haley?

Heck NBA.com even has bad things to say about Bill Walton and coaches.

Listen, Rodman is no saint either and I never said having Hayes took you out of the running for anything, only that it dropped you out of my top 5. Of course, I don't know what year you are going to use for him but if its a later year when he started growing up and being a team player(but putting up much less dominant numbers), I would think that would be better.

But you have to know I am not making this stuff up about Hayes. He was a locker room cancer for most of his career. Check this out:

Elvin Hayes made news during the NBA All-Star weekend in February, not just because he was among those honored as one of the 50 greatest players in league history but also for his pointed remarks about Allen Iverson, the Philadelphia 76ers' flamboyant rookie point guard. "Iverson plays like a runaway train," Hayes said. "The bottom line is what your team does, and his team is not doing anything. If he doesn't show respect for the top players, then maybe he should read up on them. His head is in the wrong place."

Hayes's words no doubt arched the eyebrows of many longtime NBA followers who can recall a time when similar criticism was directed at a talented but petulant young power forward named Elvin Hayes. Like Iverson, the Big E was the top pick in the NBA draft, in 1968, and during his first few years in the league his reputation as a bad actor was matched only by his reputation for folding in the clutch. Alex Hannum, one of Hayes's coaches with the San Diego Rockets, once described Hayes as "the most despicable person I've ever met in sports," and when Hayes was traded to the Baltimore Bullets in '72, Baltimore coach Gene Shue joked that Hayes's psychiatrist was part of the deal.

That's from Sports Illustrated

http://www.truthaboutit.net/2009/09/elvin-hayes-versus-wes-unseld.html

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1010183/index.htm

http://guyism.com/sports/most-overrated-sports-legends-of-all-time.html

http://www.fanbase.com/article/the-big-e-wants-an-mvp-%28john-papanek,/6345

Listen, to most people who know the name Elvin Hayes they think of the stats and dominating play but there was a side of the story that didn't get out about him as much as it would have had he played in the late 80's until now.

Besides, as I have said before the differences between the teams are so slight as to be ridiculous and ultimately player preferences and bias for and against certain players or types of players will make a difference. I'm not a huge Dominique Wilkins fan, Allen Iverson fan, or Elvin Hayes fan. There's others, especially among players of today who have similar, inefficient volume scoring me first games.

[mgent]

I don't know man I'm still not seeing him as a "cancer."  A guy who didn't get along with coaches?  Absolutely.  But a guy who brought down every team he was on?  No way.

Rondo has a history being a coaching problem.  Kevin Garnett was called despicable or worse by nearly everyone in the league this year.  That doesn't hurt them as players, and it doesn't put them at a career-loser Iverson level.  Iverson's problem was that he was incapable of winning.  If he won a couple rings nobody would talk of him like they do now.

I just don't see how a couple of personality problems affects his ability to be on a winning team.  You could dig up negative traits on almost every other person drafted.  It's a huge part of sports and famous people in general.

[Moranis]

Aside my defense, I think my team's biggest strength is that there's not going to be a chemistry issue. Each of these players have been leaders who have willingly shared the spotlight with players on all-time levels on their teams and have carried teams with inferior talent to substantial success. I really think these players would enjoy playing with each other and they have the right mental make-up to beat teams that might seem better on paper.

I agree.  Theoretically, Dallas, Miami, Atlanta, Boston, and Memphis are all gonna have chemistry issues based on their players' personalities.

Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with your defense.  I just have some reservations about your front-court combination.  I don't think any of them compliment the others that well.

see I totally disagree. Paul is unselfish. Pierce, lebron, and pierce have all shared the spot light with other hall of famers no issue with chemistry at all.

[Bahku]

Still four coaches to be selected ... we have until the end of the weekend, right?




1. Memphis Grizzlies - Moranis: Red Auerbach

2. Boston Celtics - 33-00-32: Chuck Daly

3. Denver Nuggets - mgent: Bill Russell

4. Los Angeles Lakers - GreenFaith1819: Doc Rivers

5. Chicago Bulls - nickagneta: Pat Riley

6. Oklahoma City Thunder - KCattheStripe: Phil Jackson

7. Miami Heat - Rebus Rankin: Alex Hannum

8. Atlanta Hawks - WeMadeIt17: Don Nelson

9. Indiana Pacers - StartOrien: Rudy Tomjanovich

10. Dallas Mavericks - Rondo2287

11. Portland Trail Blazers - Redz

12. Philadelphia 76ers - Bahku

[mgent]

Aside my defense, I think my team's biggest strength is that there's not going to be a chemistry issue. Each of these players have been leaders who have willingly shared the spotlight with players on all-time levels on their teams and have carried teams with inferior talent to substantial success. I really think these players would enjoy playing with each other and they have the right mental make-up to beat teams that might seem better on paper.

I agree.  Theoretically, Dallas, Miami, Atlanta, Boston, and Memphis are all gonna have chemistry issues based on their players' personalities.

Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with your defense.  I just have some reservations about your front-court combination.  I don't think any of them compliment the others that well.

see I totally disagree. Paul is unselfish. Pierce, lebron, and pierce have all shared the spot light with other hall of famers no issue with chemistry at all.

I meant to say you weren't in the same category as the others and you will only POSSIBLY have chemistry issues.

The reasons why, perhaps I'll tell you tomorrow when I come down.

[Moranis]

Oscar Robertson 61-62:  30.8ppg, 12.5rpg, 11.4apg, .478 FG%

Clyde Drexler 88-89:  27.2ppg, 7.9rpg, 5.8apg, 2.7spg, .7bpg .496 FG%

Julius Erving 73-74:  27.4ppg, 10.7rpg, 5.3apg, 2.3spg, 2.4bpg, .512 FG%

Elvin Hayes 73-74:  21.4ppg, 18.1rpg, 2apg, 1.1spg, 3bpg, .423 FG%

Robert Parish 80-81:  24.3ppg, 12.2rpg, 2.3apg, 1.3spg, 3.4bpg, .545 FG%



That's 131.1ppg, 61.4rpg, 26.8apg, 7.3spg, and 9.5bpg in the starting lineup alone, and with no recorded steals and blocks for Oscar.

Get on my level.

All the teams will look like that.

PG - Chris Paul - 22.8 p, 5.5 r, 11 a, 2.8 s, .1 b, 50.3%
SG - Paul Pierce - 26.1 p, 6.9 r, 3.2 a, 1.9 s, 1 b, 44.3%
SF - Lebron James - 29.7 p, 7.3 r, 8.6 a, 1.6 s, 1 b, 50.3%
PF - Bob McAdoo - 35.0 p, 14.1 r, 2.2 a, 1.1 s, 2.1 b, 51.2%
C - Moses Malone - 24.5 p, 15.3 r, 1.3 a, 1.1 s, 2 b, 50.1%

Totals - 138.1 p, 49.1 r, 26.3 a, 8.5 s, 6.2 b

[StartOrien]

Indiana Pacers select coach,

Rudy Tomjanovich

[StartOrien]

Second year in a row I got Rudy T.

[mgent]

Aside my defense, I think my team's biggest strength is that there's not going to be a chemistry issue. Each of these players have been leaders who have willingly shared the spotlight with players on all-time levels on their teams and have carried teams with inferior talent to substantial success. I really think these players would enjoy playing with each other and they have the right mental make-up to beat teams that might seem better on paper.

I agree.  Theoretically, Dallas, Miami, Atlanta, Boston, and Memphis are all gonna have chemistry issues based on their players' personalities.

Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with your defense.  I just have some reservations about your front-court combination.  I don't think any of them compliment the others that well.

see I totally disagree. Paul is unselfish. Pierce, lebron, and pierce have all shared the spot light with other hall of famers no issue with chemistry at all.

Who's gonna play PG for you, because LeBron and CP3 have never gone without the ball for longer than a minute.  Then you've got younger Pierce, who was a master at creating his OWN shot.

One thing I love about your team though is that Pierce and LeBron are probably the 2 best guys in the past decade at getting to the line.  I see a lot of foul trouble for your opponents.

[Moranis]

Aside my defense, I think my team's biggest strength is that there's not going to be a chemistry issue. Each of these players have been leaders who have willingly shared the spotlight with players on all-time levels on their teams and have carried teams with inferior talent to substantial success. I really think these players would enjoy playing with each other and they have the right mental make-up to beat teams that might seem better on paper.

I agree.  Theoretically, Dallas, Miami, Atlanta, Boston, and Memphis are all gonna have chemistry issues based on their players' personalities.

Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with your defense.  I just have some reservations about your front-court combination.  I don't think any of them compliment the others that well.

see I totally disagree. Paul is unselfish. Pierce, lebron, and pierce have all shared the spot light with other hall of famers no issue with chemistry at all.

Who's gonna play PG for you, because LeBron and CP3 have never gone without the ball for longer than a minute.  Then you've got younger Pierce, who was a master at creating his OWN shot.

One thing I love about your team though is that Pierce and LeBron are probably the 2 best guys in the past decade at getting to the line.  I see a lot of foul trouble for your opponents.

I don't forsee any trouble at all.  I mean Wade and Lebron are both players that thrive with the ball in their hand and it seems to be working just fine for Miami.  Pierce didn't have any trouble letting Rondo run things.  Paul averaged 11 assists (and was at 11.6 the year before).  That doesn't strike me as a player who has to have the ball in his hand.  I mean Paul is essentially a much better shooting version of Rajon Rondo. 

I plan on running the high pick and role and doing a lot of drive and dish.  It is the perfect set up for this team with Moses hanging out down low and McAdoo set up at the foul line extended.  I designed the team around Lebron and got the players that will not have any issue playing with Lebron.

[KCattheStripe]

Aside my defense, I think my team's biggest strength is that there's not going to be a chemistry issue. Each of these players have been leaders who have willingly shared the spotlight with players on all-time levels on their teams and have carried teams with inferior talent to substantial success. I really think these players would enjoy playing with each other and they have the right mental make-up to beat teams that might seem better on paper.

Well, so long as Pippen isn't asked to be a decoy on your final play.

Actually, though, weren't there pretty huge chemistry issues on that Hakeem/Pippen/Barkley Rockets team?

I honestly don't remember if there were issues between Hakeem, Barkley and Clyde but when Hakeem retired Barkley went so far as to call him honorable and Hakeem and Drexler go way back so if there were issues I'd guess it was between Barkley and Drexler.

[StartOrien]

Aside my defense, I think my team's biggest strength is that there's not going to be a chemistry issue. Each of these players have been leaders who have willingly shared the spotlight with players on all-time levels on their teams and have carried teams with inferior talent to substantial success. I really think these players would enjoy playing with each other and they have the right mental make-up to beat teams that might seem better on paper.

Well, so long as Pippen isn't asked to be a decoy on your final play.

Actually, though, weren't there pretty huge chemistry issues on that Hakeem/Pippen/Barkley Rockets team?

I honestly don't remember if there were issues between Hakeem, Barkley and Clyde but when Hakeem retired Barkley went so far as to call him honorable and Hakeem and Drexler go way back so if there were issues I'd guess it was between Barkley and Drexler.

If there were issues I'd have to guess they revolved around Pippen and Barkley. I don't recall this though.

[Redz]

If there is a prize for "least talked about team" I'm a shew in. 

This could either be due to my self-proclaimed championship of personal opinion or the fact that my team is simply beyond words good.

[RebusRankin]

It is clear that Redz team is too reliant on Larry Bird and that David Robinson can't handle the great centers of other teans.