2011 CB Historical Draft - Draft Thread

[mgent]

Also, they'll have no problem scoring when their PG blows by Nash and Russell has to help.

[GreenFaith1819]

Remember gents, especially in a league of all time greats, defense wins championships.

I hear ya, Brother!

That's why I'm loving my team and yours in that regard.

[Who]

The word "elite" is being thrown around too readily to describe players here.

There is gargantuan difference in offensive ability between Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Wilt Chamberlain, Shaquille O'Neal and Hakeem Olajuwon ... and the rest of the talented scoring centers.

Ability is relative to your competition.

[StartOrien]

Indiana will be great with Barkley and Russell against any frontline because what will have to happen is Indiana will have to force their running game and control the tempo to be most effective. If there was ever players that I felt could force their will upon another team to dictate pace to their liking, its Barkley, Russell and Nash. Nash is a major liability on the other end but that man can dictate pace and force a running game like very few others ever and that's what Russell and Barkley will need to be most effective. Defense down low forcing turnovers, get it out to Nash and run. Barkley and Russell will be great against bigger competition because of this.

Glad I reread the last page because I was about to make this point, but word it a lot worse.

[KCattheStripe]

The word "elite" is being thrown around too readily to describe players here.

There is gargantuan difference in offensive ability between Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Wilt Chamberlain, Shaquille O'Neal and Hakeem Olajuwon ... and the rest of the talented scoring centers.

Ability is relative to your competition.

I was going to quote you earlier when you omitted Hakeem and ask why, but now I won't.

[mgent]

Gotta say another team that almost made my top 5 was Denver except I am not a fan of Hayes. he wasn't a team player until Wes Unseld influenced him and even then, they didn't like each other. He didn't get along with coaches or team mates and was usually a problem. Stories I have read made me think he was the 70's version of Allen Iverson only playing PF. He was a black hole for much of his career on the court.

No denying the man's talent but like Dominique, like Iverson, and like some others that have yet to be drafted, I'm not crazy about Hayes in this type of all-star team setting.

That was only like 4 years after he came into the league, were all of your players at their ultimate teammate potential their rookie year?  Plus that's not even an issue in a "pick one year" exercise.

I've never heard anything that makes him even close to as bad as AI.  What makes you say that?

[StartOrien]

I'll admit that I haven't really looked at the other teams, but regarding Nash, I wonder how many teams will be able to completely exploit him. Wade's versatile, and I wonder how many 1-2 combinations are both explosive scorers. I'd have to guess that most 1-2 combos have a player who is a little more passive.

[KCattheStripe]

I'll admit that I haven't really looked at the other teams, but regarding Nash, I wonder how many teams will be able to completely exploit him. Wade's versatile, and I wonder how many 1-2 combinations are both explosive scorers. I'd have to guess that most 1-2 combos have a player who is a little more passive.

Did someone say explosive?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nieBAq8FQYE&feature=related

[mgent]

The word "elite" is being thrown around too readily to describe players here.

There is gargantuan difference in offensive ability between Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Wilt Chamberlain, Shaquille O'Neal and Hakeem Olajuwon ... and the rest of the talented scoring centers.

Ability is relative to your competition.

I don't get it.  Because these guys are 4 of the best scorers ever that makes other Centers' offense worse?

Dwight Howard, Robert Parish, Alonzo Mourning, heck Brook Lopez, these are talented scoring centers.  Moses Malone, David Robinson, and Patrick Ewing are on a whole other level.

[StartOrien]

I'll admit that I haven't really looked at the other teams, but regarding Nash, I wonder how many teams will be able to completely exploit him. Wade's versatile, and I wonder how many 1-2 combinations are both explosive scorers. I'd have to guess that most 1-2 combos have a player who is a little more passive.

Did someone say explosive?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nieBAq8FQYE&feature=related

Ha, but your teams a good example: I think my team could live with having Nash sag off Kidd. Not saying that Kidd couldn't exploit the matchup, just that I think our team has enough to talent and ability where we could survive it.

[Roy H.]

The word "elite" is being thrown around too readily to describe players here.

There is gargantuan difference in offensive ability between Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Wilt Chamberlain, Shaquille O'Neal and Hakeem Olajuwon ... and the rest of the talented scoring centers.

Ability is relative to your competition.

Hakeem, Robinson, and Ewing all played in roughly the same era. 

Robinson's best two seasons:

29.8 points on 51% FG% (in 40.5 minutes)
27.6 points on 53% FG% (in 38 minutes)

Ewing's two best seasons:

28.6 points on 55% FG% (in 39 minutes)
26.6 points on 51% FG% (in 38 minutes)

Olajuwon's two best seasons:

27.8 points on 52% FG% (in 40 minutes)
27.3 points on 53% FG% (in 41 minutes)

In terms of pace, the Rockets generally played at a quicker pace than the Spurs or the Knicks.

Based upon all of the above, Hakeem was a similar scorer to Ewing and Robinson.  Hakeem may have had more post moves, but Ewing, Robinson, and Olajuwon were all equally effective as scorers at their peak.

[nickagneta]

Gotta say another team that almost made my top 5 was Denver except I am not a fan of Hayes. he wasn't a team player until Wes Unseld influenced him and even then, they didn't like each other. He didn't get along with coaches or team mates and was usually a problem. Stories I have read made me think he was the 70's version of Allen Iverson only playing PF. He was a black hole for much of his career on the court.

No denying the man's talent but like Dominique, like Iverson, and like some others that have yet to be drafted, I'm not crazy about Hayes in this type of all-star team setting.

That was only like 4 years after he came into the league, were all of your players at their ultimate teammate potential their rookie year?  Plus that's not even an issue in a "pick one year" exercise.

I've never heard anything that makes him even close to as bad as AI.  What makes you say that?

This is his nba.com bio and nba.com very seldom says something not so flattering about their all time greats:

http://www.nba.com/history/hayes_bio.html

You want more about these stories of Hayes and his problems on and off the court, they are easy to find. Google Elvin Hayes reputation

[nickagneta]

I'll admit that I haven't really looked at the other teams, but regarding Nash, I wonder how many teams will be able to completely exploit him. Wade's versatile, and I wonder how many 1-2 combinations are both explosive scorers. I'd have to guess that most 1-2 combos have a player who is a little more passive.

Magic Johnson and Jerry West

[KCattheStripe]

People are making the point that Cowens liked to guard guys in the paint and would have trouble with stretch 4s. Maybe, but it's not like Cowen's couldn't stay in the post while Hakeem went out and covered a stretch 4. Hakeem would smother someone like Dirk.

[KCattheStripe]

I'll admit that I haven't really looked at the other teams, but regarding Nash, I wonder how many teams will be able to completely exploit him. Wade's versatile, and I wonder how many 1-2 combinations are both explosive scorers. I'd have to guess that most 1-2 combos have a player who is a little more passive.

Did someone say explosive?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nieBAq8FQYE&feature=related

Ha, but your teams a good example: I think my team could live with having Nash sag off Kidd. Not saying that Kidd couldn't exploit the matchup, just that I think our team has enough to talent and ability where we could survive it.

Except we're the only team in this league who could run with you and sagging off Jason Kidd from 2002-2003 would be a mistake.