2011 CB Historical Draft - Draft Thread

[Roy H.]

I'll admit that I haven't really looked at the other teams, but regarding Nash, I wonder how many teams will be able to completely exploit him. Wade's versatile, and I wonder how many 1-2 combinations are both explosive scorers. I'd have to guess that most 1-2 combos have a player who is a little more passive.

Magic Johnson and Jerry West

There are a few.  The West / Magic combo, for sure.  Portland's duo of Tiny and Jones.  Oscar and Drexler.  Those are off the top of my head.

[KCattheStripe]

The word "elite" is being thrown around too readily to describe players here.

There is gargantuan difference in offensive ability between Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Wilt Chamberlain, Shaquille O'Neal and Hakeem Olajuwon ... and the rest of the talented scoring centers.

Ability is relative to your competition.

Hakeem, Robinson, and Ewing all played in roughly the same era. 

Robinson's best two seasons:

29.8 points on 51% FG% (in 40.5 minutes)
27.6 points on 53% FG% (in 38 minutes)

Ewing's two best seasons:

28.6 points on 55% FG% (in 39 minutes)
26.6 points on 51% FG% (in 38 minutes)

Olajuwon's two best seasons:

27.8 points on 52% FG% (in 40 minutes)
27.3 points on 53% FG% (in 41 minutes)

In terms of pace, the Rockets generally played at a quicker pace than the Spurs or the Knicks.

Based upon all of the above, Hakeem was a similar scorer to Ewing and Robinson.  Hakeem may have had more post moves, but Ewing, Robinson, and Olajuwon were all equally effective as scorers at their peak.

You know what was awesome? The times Hakeem went through  those guys on his way to a ring.

[KCattheStripe]

I'll admit that I haven't really looked at the other teams, but regarding Nash, I wonder how many teams will be able to completely exploit him. Wade's versatile, and I wonder how many 1-2 combinations are both explosive scorers. I'd have to guess that most 1-2 combos have a player who is a little more passive.

Magic Johnson and Jerry West

There are a few.  The West / Magic combo, for sure.  Portland's duo of Tiny and Jones.  Oscar and Drexler.  Those are off the top of my head.

Kidd and Reggie?   

[nickagneta]

The word "elite" is being thrown around too readily to describe players here.

There is gargantuan difference in offensive ability between Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Wilt Chamberlain, Shaquille O'Neal and Hakeem Olajuwon ... and the rest of the talented scoring centers.

Ability is relative to your competition.

Hakeem, Robinson, and Ewing all played in roughly the same era. 

Robinson's best two seasons:

29.8 points on 51% FG% (in 40.5 minutes)
27.6 points on 53% FG% (in 38 minutes)

Ewing's two best seasons:

28.6 points on 55% FG% (in 39 minutes)
26.6 points on 51% FG% (in 38 minutes)

Olajuwon's two best seasons:

27.8 points on 52% FG% (in 40 minutes)
27.3 points on 53% FG% (in 41 minutes)

In terms of pace, the Rockets generally played at a quicker pace than the Spurs or the Knicks.

Based upon all of the above, Hakeem was a similar scorer to Ewing and Robinson.  Hakeem may have had more post moves, but Ewing, Robinson, and Olajuwon were all equally effective as scorers at their peak.

You know what was awesome? The times Hakeem went through  those guys on his way to a ring.

LOL TP4U KC

[StartOrien]

I'll admit that I haven't really looked at the other teams, but regarding Nash, I wonder how many teams will be able to completely exploit him. Wade's versatile, and I wonder how many 1-2 combinations are both explosive scorers. I'd have to guess that most 1-2 combos have a player who is a little more passive.

Magic Johnson and Jerry West

Ummmm..... well.....

[Roy H.]

The word "elite" is being thrown around too readily to describe players here.

There is gargantuan difference in offensive ability between Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Wilt Chamberlain, Shaquille O'Neal and Hakeem Olajuwon ... and the rest of the talented scoring centers.

Ability is relative to your competition.

Hakeem, Robinson, and Ewing all played in roughly the same era. 

Robinson's best two seasons:

29.8 points on 51% FG% (in 40.5 minutes)
27.6 points on 53% FG% (in 38 minutes)

Ewing's two best seasons:

28.6 points on 55% FG% (in 39 minutes)
26.6 points on 51% FG% (in 38 minutes)

Olajuwon's two best seasons:

27.8 points on 52% FG% (in 40 minutes)
27.3 points on 53% FG% (in 41 minutes)

In terms of pace, the Rockets generally played at a quicker pace than the Spurs or the Knicks.

Based upon all of the above, Hakeem was a similar scorer to Ewing and Robinson.  Hakeem may have had more post moves, but Ewing, Robinson, and Olajuwon were all equally effective as scorers at their peak.

You know what was awesome? The times Hakeem went through  those guys on his way to a ring.

Hakeem was a fantastic player, and I'd take him over Prime Ewing and probably over Prime Robinson.  However, all three were absolutely on the same level as scorers, I think.

[RebusRankin]

Yep. Magic/West exploit Nash and Wade. I agree on Tiny and Jones and Oscar and Drexler too. Zeke will exploit Nash too. He just needs a running mate.   Meanwhile Mchale on Barkley? Advantage McHale. Wilt and Russell is tough but Miami does have the only coach who kept Russell from winning tittles during his career.

[KCattheStripe]

The word "elite" is being thrown around too readily to describe players here.

There is gargantuan difference in offensive ability between Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Wilt Chamberlain, Shaquille O'Neal and Hakeem Olajuwon ... and the rest of the talented scoring centers.

Ability is relative to your competition.

Hakeem, Robinson, and Ewing all played in roughly the same era. 

Robinson's best two seasons:

29.8 points on 51% FG% (in 40.5 minutes)
27.6 points on 53% FG% (in 38 minutes)

Ewing's two best seasons:

28.6 points on 55% FG% (in 39 minutes)
26.6 points on 51% FG% (in 38 minutes)

Olajuwon's two best seasons:

27.8 points on 52% FG% (in 40 minutes)
27.3 points on 53% FG% (in 41 minutes)

In terms of pace, the Rockets generally played at a quicker pace than the Spurs or the Knicks.

Based upon all of the above, Hakeem was a similar scorer to Ewing and Robinson.  Hakeem may have had more post moves, but Ewing, Robinson, and Olajuwon were all equally effective as scorers at their peak.

Sidenote: In both of those years for Robinson and one of them for Ewing those averages dropped when they were in the playoffs, meanwhile Hakeem's rose both years.

Hakeem Olajuwon: Better Offensively When it Counts!

[StartOrien]

Yep. Magic/West exploit Nash and Wade. I agree on Tiny and Jones and Oscar and Drexler too. Zeke will exploit Nash too. He just needs a running mate.   Meanwhile Mchale on Barkley? Advantage McHale. Wilt and Russell is tough but Miami does have the only coach who kept Russell from winning tittles during his career.

I think the struggles Barkley would have in the post against McHale would be about the same as the struggles McHale would have in playing at the pace my RACERS* would play at.



*I want to be clear that was intentionally a terrible joke.

[Who]

The word "elite" is being thrown around too readily to describe players here.

There is gargantuan difference in offensive ability between Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Wilt Chamberlain, Shaquille O'Neal and Hakeem Olajuwon ... and the rest of the talented scoring centers.

Ability is relative to your competition.

Hakeem, Robinson, and Ewing all played in roughly the same era. 

Robinson's best two seasons:

29.8 points on 51% FG% (in 40.5 minutes)
27.6 points on 53% FG% (in 38 minutes)

Ewing's two best seasons:

28.6 points on 55% FG% (in 39 minutes)
26.6 points on 51% FG% (in 38 minutes)

Olajuwon's two best seasons:

27.8 points on 52% FG% (in 40 minutes)
27.3 points on 53% FG% (in 41 minutes)

In terms of pace, the Rockets generally played at a quicker pace than the Spurs or the Knicks.

Based upon all of the above, Hakeem was a similar scorer to Ewing and Robinson.  Hakeem may have had more post moves, but Ewing, Robinson, and Olajuwon were all equally effective as scorers at their peak.

See -- 1994 NBA Finals, Hakeem vs Ewing

See -- 1995 West Conference Finals, Hakeem vs David Robinson

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A player's offensive ability is dependent on their physical attributes, mentality and offensive skill-set relative to their opponent's physical attributes, mentality and defensive skill-set.

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Hakeem Olajuwon was an elite scorer because of his elite physical attributes - quickness, agility and balance -- in combination with his elite skill-set as an undersized finesse five. His footwork and variety of low post moves which allowed him to create his preferred shot attempts against any defender.


David Robinson was never an elite scorer because he failed to refine his post game. There wasn't enough variety in it. It was too predictable. He was too dependent on his jump shot and turnaround J. Against top class defenses, his offense could be hurt more than Hakeem's. He did have the athleticism though.

Similar issues with Ewing's offensive game. Again, heavily reliant on those two point jump shots (which killed him in the 1994 Finals) + those little jigs across the paint. Plus, he lacked elite athleticism, particularly quickness, so top class defenders with elite athleticism (like Hakeem) could bother him.

[mgent]

Gotta say another team that almost made my top 5 was Denver except I am not a fan of Hayes. he wasn't a team player until Wes Unseld influenced him and even then, they didn't like each other. He didn't get along with coaches or team mates and was usually a problem. Stories I have read made me think he was the 70's version of Allen Iverson only playing PF. He was a black hole for much of his career on the court.

No denying the man's talent but like Dominique, like Iverson, and like some others that have yet to be drafted, I'm not crazy about Hayes in this type of all-star team setting.

That was only like 4 years after he came into the league, were all of your players at their ultimate teammate potential their rookie year?  Plus that's not even an issue in a "pick one year" exercise.

I've never heard anything that makes him even close to as bad as AI.  What makes you say that?

This is his nba.com bio and nba.com very seldom says something not so flattering about their all time greats:

http://www.nba.com/history/hayes_bio.html

You want more about these stories of Hayes and his problems on and off the court, they are easy to find. Google Elvin Hayes reputation

It basically says he liked to speak his mind because he was a victim of racism as a youth so his dad taught him to always demand respect.

As for googling "Elvin Hayes reputation," nothing came up.

He seems like the typical famous Larry Bird-type jerk who probably treated his trainers like crap because he didn't think he could learn anything from him.  What makes him any worse than half the first round picks?

I mean really, with Kobe available to take shots at, how are you gonna call Elvin Hayes a "problem."

[StartOrien]

Sidenote: In both of those years for Robinson and one of them for Ewing those averages dropped when they were in the playoffs, meanwhile Hakeem's rose both years.

Hakeem Olajuwon: Better Offensively When it Counts!

I 100% agree with this.

[RebusRankin]

Yep. Magic/West exploit Nash and Wade. I agree on Tiny and Jones and Oscar and Drexler too. Zeke will exploit Nash too. He just needs a running mate.   Meanwhile Mchale on Barkley? Advantage McHale. Wilt and Russell is tough but Miami does have the only coach who kept Russell from winning tittles during his career.

I think the struggles Barkley would have in the post against McHale would be about the same as the struggles McHale would have in playing at the pace my RACERS* would play at.



*I want to be clear that was intentionally a terrible joke.

McHale, Wilt and Thomas were all athletes my man.

[StartOrien]

McHale, Wilt and Thomas were all athletes my man.

I'm certainly not debating this, but going back to Barkley on McHale: There's no debating that Barkley was a better athlete, just like there's no debating that McHale was a better pure post player.

[StartOrien]

I'll give my team this: They're very interesting to compare with.