2011 CB Historical Draft - Draft Thread

[KCattheStripe]

The Seattle Supersonics are interested in what other players think are fair value for their players and will award a tp for each realistic offer.

[mgent]

Gotta say another team that almost made my top 5 was Denver except I am not a fan of Hayes. he wasn't a team player until Wes Unseld influenced him and even then, they didn't like each other. He didn't get along with coaches or team mates and was usually a problem. Stories I have read made me think he was the 70's version of Allen Iverson only playing PF. He was a black hole for much of his career on the court.

No denying the man's talent but like Dominique, like Iverson, and like some others that have yet to be drafted, I'm not crazy about Hayes in this type of all-star team setting.

That was only like 4 years after he came into the league, were all of your players at their ultimate teammate potential their rookie year?  Plus that's not even an issue in a "pick one year" exercise.

I've never heard anything that makes him even close to as bad as AI.  What makes you say that?

This is his nba.com bio and nba.com very seldom says something not so flattering about their all time greats:

http://www.nba.com/history/hayes_bio.html

You want more about these stories of Hayes and his problems on and off the court, they are easy to find. Google Elvin Hayes reputation

It basically says he liked to speak his mind because he was a victim of racism as a youth so his dad taught him to always demand respect.

As for googling "Elvin Hayes reputation," nothing came up.

He seems like the typical famous Larry Bird-type jerk who probably treated his trainers like crap because he didn't think he could learn anything from him.  What makes him any worse than half the first round picks?

I mean really, with Kobe available to take shots at, how are you gonna call Elvin Hayes a "problem."

Also, out of curiosity, does Rodman take your team out of the running?  Are you planning on drafting Jack Haley?

Heck NBA.com even has bad things to say about Bill Walton and coaches.

[WeMadeIt17]

I'm confused on how Kobe doesn't get thrown in with elite scoring

[KCattheStripe]

I'm confused on how Kobe doesn't get thrown in with elite scoring

Is Kobe 7 feet tall? Because we were talking about centers.

[GreenFaith1819]

The word "elite" is being thrown around too readily to describe players here.

There is gargantuan difference in offensive ability between Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Wilt Chamberlain, Shaquille O'Neal and Hakeem Olajuwon ... and the rest of the talented scoring centers.

Ability is relative to your competition.

Hakeem, Robinson, and Ewing all played in roughly the same era. 

Robinson's best two seasons:

29.8 points on 51% FG% (in 40.5 minutes)
27.6 points on 53% FG% (in 38 minutes)

Ewing's two best seasons:

28.6 points on 55% FG% (in 39 minutes)
26.6 points on 51% FG% (in 38 minutes)

Olajuwon's two best seasons:

27.8 points on 52% FG% (in 40 minutes)
27.3 points on 53% FG% (in 41 minutes)

In terms of pace, the Rockets generally played at a quicker pace than the Spurs or the Knicks.

Based upon all of the above, Hakeem was a similar scorer to Ewing and Robinson.  Hakeem may have had more post moves, but Ewing, Robinson, and Olajuwon were all equally effective as scorers at their peak.

You know what was awesome? The times Hakeem went through  those guys on his way to a ring.

Hakeem was perhaps the best center ever overall, IMO - but don't forget that he needed help to go through MY elite center...

[KCattheStripe]

The word "elite" is being thrown around too readily to describe players here.

There is gargantuan difference in offensive ability between Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Wilt Chamberlain, Shaquille O'Neal and Hakeem Olajuwon ... and the rest of the talented scoring centers.

Ability is relative to your competition.

Hakeem, Robinson, and Ewing all played in roughly the same era. 

Robinson's best two seasons:

29.8 points on 51% FG% (in 40.5 minutes)
27.6 points on 53% FG% (in 38 minutes)

Ewing's two best seasons:

28.6 points on 55% FG% (in 39 minutes)
26.6 points on 51% FG% (in 38 minutes)

Olajuwon's two best seasons:

27.8 points on 52% FG% (in 40 minutes)
27.3 points on 53% FG% (in 41 minutes)

In terms of pace, the Rockets generally played at a quicker pace than the Spurs or the Knicks.

Based upon all of the above, Hakeem was a similar scorer to Ewing and Robinson.  Hakeem may have had more post moves, but Ewing, Robinson, and Olajuwon were all equally effective as scorers at their peak.

You know what was awesome? The times Hakeem went through  those guys on his way to a ring.

Hakeem was perhaps the best center ever overall, IMO - but don't forget that he needed help to go through MY elite center...

Don't you mean your elite Center needed help to keep it competitive with mine? 

[GreenFaith1819]

The word "elite" is being thrown around too readily to describe players here.

There is gargantuan difference in offensive ability between Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Wilt Chamberlain, Shaquille O'Neal and Hakeem Olajuwon ... and the rest of the talented scoring centers.

Ability is relative to your competition.

Hakeem, Robinson, and Ewing all played in roughly the same era. 

Robinson's best two seasons:

29.8 points on 51% FG% (in 40.5 minutes)
27.6 points on 53% FG% (in 38 minutes)

Ewing's two best seasons:

28.6 points on 55% FG% (in 39 minutes)
26.6 points on 51% FG% (in 38 minutes)

Olajuwon's two best seasons:

27.8 points on 52% FG% (in 40 minutes)
27.3 points on 53% FG% (in 41 minutes)

In terms of pace, the Rockets generally played at a quicker pace than the Spurs or the Knicks.

Based upon all of the above, Hakeem was a similar scorer to Ewing and Robinson.  Hakeem may have had more post moves, but Ewing, Robinson, and Olajuwon were all equally effective as scorers at their peak.

You know what was awesome? The times Hakeem went through  those guys on his way to a ring.

Hakeem was perhaps the best center ever overall, IMO - but don't forget that he needed help to go through MY elite center...

Don't you mean your elite Center needed help to keep it competitive with mine? 

I like that.

I didn't want to give it away...there's still a slight chance that this certain player will still get picked.

All I'll say is - this guy was unique. There will probably never be another like him.

[KCattheStripe]

The word "elite" is being thrown around too readily to describe players here.

There is gargantuan difference in offensive ability between Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Wilt Chamberlain, Shaquille O'Neal and Hakeem Olajuwon ... and the rest of the talented scoring centers.

Ability is relative to your competition.

Hakeem, Robinson, and Ewing all played in roughly the same era. 

Robinson's best two seasons:

29.8 points on 51% FG% (in 40.5 minutes)
27.6 points on 53% FG% (in 38 minutes)

Ewing's two best seasons:

28.6 points on 55% FG% (in 39 minutes)
26.6 points on 51% FG% (in 38 minutes)

Olajuwon's two best seasons:

27.8 points on 52% FG% (in 40 minutes)
27.3 points on 53% FG% (in 41 minutes)

In terms of pace, the Rockets generally played at a quicker pace than the Spurs or the Knicks.

Based upon all of the above, Hakeem was a similar scorer to Ewing and Robinson.  Hakeem may have had more post moves, but Ewing, Robinson, and Olajuwon were all equally effective as scorers at their peak.

You know what was awesome? The times Hakeem went through  those guys on his way to a ring.

Hakeem was perhaps the best center ever overall, IMO - but don't forget that he needed help to go through MY elite center...

Don't you mean your elite Center needed help to keep it competitive with mine? 

I like that.

I didn't want to give it away...there's still a slight chance that this certain player will still get picked.

All I'll say is - this guy was unique. There will probably never be another like him.

Truth.

[Bahku]

Coaches round starts at 4:00PM and are in this order:


1. Memphis Grizzlies - Moranis: Red Auerbach

2. Boston Celtics - 33-00-32: Chuck Daly

3. Denver Nuggets - mgent: Bill Russell

4. Los Angeles Lakers - GreenFaith1819: Doc Rivers

5. Chicago Bulls - nickagneta: Pat Riley

6. Oklahoma City Thunder - KCattheStripe: Phil Jackson

7. Miami Heat - Rebus Rankin: Alex Hannum

8. Atlanta Hawks - WeMadeIt17: Don Nelson

9. Indiana Pacers - StartOrien

10. Dallas Mavericks - Rondo2287

11. Portland Trail Blazers - Redz

12. Philadelphia 76ers - Bahku

[Moranis]

Poor Moses getting no love.  11 straight seasons of 20+ ppg, including a 31 ppg season.  All 11 also had 11+ boards a game.  


And Paul and Pierce will easily be able to exploit Nash/Wade.  I have no question in my mind about that.

[KCattheStripe]

Poor Moses getting no love.  11 straight seasons of 20+ ppg, including a 31 ppg season.  All 11 also had 11+ boards a game.  


And Paul and Pierce will easily be able to exploit Nash/Wade.  I have no question in my mind about that.

Dwade's best season is better offensively and defensively than Pierce's.

[Moranis]

Poor Moses getting no love.  11 straight seasons of 20+ ppg, including a 31 ppg season.  All 11 also had 11+ boards a game.  


And Paul and Pierce will easily be able to exploit Nash/Wade.  I have no question in my mind about that.

Dwade's best season is better offensively and defensively than Pierce's.

Wade can't guard Pierce in the post. 

[Who]

Poor Moses getting no love.  11 straight seasons of 20+ ppg, including a 31 ppg season.  All 11 also had 11+ boards a game. 


And Paul and Pierce will easily be able to exploit Nash/Wade.  I have no question in my mind about that.

Dwade's best season is better offensively and defensively than Pierce's.

Wade can't guard Pierce in the post. 

I think one would stick Wade on LeBron rather than Pierce.

Pierce is a more talented and willing mid-post, high post and low post player than LeBron.

LeBron is more a dribble drive from behind the three point line with the odd post up splashed in between type of player.

[Moranis]

Poor Moses getting no love.  11 straight seasons of 20+ ppg, including a 31 ppg season.  All 11 also had 11+ boards a game. 


And Paul and Pierce will easily be able to exploit Nash/Wade.  I have no question in my mind about that.

Dwade's best season is better offensively and defensively than Pierce's.

Wade can't guard Pierce in the post. 

I think one would stick Wade on LeBron rather than Pierce.

Pierce is a more talented and willing mid-post, high post and low post player than LeBron.

LeBron is more a dribble drive from behind the three point line with the odd post up splashed in between type of player.

Possibly, but then Pierce might have a definate speed advantage against the SF that is now guarding him.

I truly believe my Pierce/James pairing at the 2/3 will cause all sorts of matchup problems.

And I certainly don't agree that Wade's best defensive season is vastly superior to Pierce in 01/02.  Pierce was an incredibly strong defender in 01/02 and even had 1.9 steals a game.  And even offensively Wade is an elite scorer, but he isn't a shooter.  Pierce can just back off him and make him hit the three, which is something he has never done consistently.  I mean Wade's best shooting season is 31.7% from downtown. 

I stand by my contention that Paul and Pierce will exploit Nash and Wade. 

[mgent]

Oscar Robertson 61-62:  30.8ppg, 12.5rpg, 11.4apg, .478 FG%

Clyde Drexler 88-89:  27.2ppg, 7.9rpg, 5.8apg, 2.7spg, .7bpg .496 FG%

Julius Erving 73-74:  27.4ppg, 10.7rpg, 5.3apg, 2.3spg, 2.4bpg, .512 FG%

Elvin Hayes 73-74:  21.4ppg, 18.1rpg, 2apg, 1.1spg, 3bpg, .423 FG%

Robert Parish 80-81:  24.3ppg, 12.2rpg, 2.3apg, 1.3spg, 3.4bpg, .545 FG%



That's 131.1ppg, 61.4rpg, 26.8apg, 7.3spg, and 9.5bpg in the starting lineup alone, and with no recorded steals and blocks for Oscar.

Get on my level.