2011 CB Historical Draft - Draft Thread

[33-00-32]

Someone mentioned mascots earlier, The Celtics retain their current guy:

[Edgar]

a blackout ruins my 10 games ready preview
I will try again tomorrow sorry

I ask gentlyfor an extra day


I am on vacations on thursday

[nickagneta]

You can't stick Nate Archibald on Magic Johnson. He'll kill him in the post.

There are only three teams that can consider defending Magic with their starting PGs. Boston with W.Frazier, Los Angeles with G.Payton and Seattle with J.Kidd. Even then, I'd much rather have someone with more size, small forward type physique, to stick onto Magic.

And every team outside of those guys needs to put one of their wings on Magic leaving their PG on Jerry West. And nobody with an undersized PG (6-1 or smaller) should feel any bit comfortable at the thought of their little guard having to defend a two guard of Jerry West scoring prowess. Because frankly, pretty much none of them have any real experience guarding an offensive threat like Jerry West.

Edit: Oh sorry, missed Oscar Robertson. Four teams.

I don't think the home team is getting enough love. We actually match up against teams like Chicago very well. Magic is a freak at the point so nobody alone is stopping him but with Frazier and Hondo and Vincanity we match up with their size and quickness on both ends. That leaves things in the big guys hands and when we match up Walton and Ewing I see a close battle, give and take, both have size and athletic ability in their given years. So that brings things to Reed versus Duncan (no contest both ends of the floor, total domination by Duncan) and the benches which again I see as pretty even matchup to matchup. So when this plays out I see it coming down to game 7 and Timmy putting things on his shoulders and the Celts bringing in #18.

You think Magic, West, Durant versus Frazier, Hondo and Carter is an even battle?

I think your needing to put Vince on Durant and Magic's advantage over Frazier clearly favors Chicago while the Timmy versus Reed battle isn't nearly as lopsided as you think.

Good game overall but I think the key to a Chicago-Boston matchup lies in Boston's lack of overall ball movement and ability to defend the same, especially on the wing where you have one great defender(Hondo) and many, many shoot first, non defending, my stats first players like Vince, AI, Peja(not as much as the other but a bad defender), Alex English and David Thompson.

Still, very good game and close, as I would imagine every matchup in this environment to be

[nickagneta]

a blackout ruins my 10 games ready preview
I will try again tomorrow sorry

I ask gentlyfor an extra day


I am on vacations on thursday

Edgar, panelists don't have to ask questions or post anything and I will be sending out a PM to panelists tomorrow at 9PM asking for those lists and the lists aren't due until Thursday morning before say 11 EST.

No worries mi amigo. You're cool.

[nickagneta]

Someone mentioned mascots earlier, The Celtics retain their current guy:

TP4U...you win best mascot.

I think I can say this is a unanimous league wide decision.

[33-00-32]

You can't stick Nate Archibald on Magic Johnson. He'll kill him in the post.

There are only three teams that can consider defending Magic with their starting PGs. Boston with W.Frazier, Los Angeles with G.Payton and Seattle with J.Kidd. Even then, I'd much rather have someone with more size, small forward type physique, to stick onto Magic.

And every team outside of those guys needs to put one of their wings on Magic leaving their PG on Jerry West. And nobody with an undersized PG (6-1 or smaller) should feel any bit comfortable at the thought of their little guard having to defend a two guard of Jerry West scoring prowess. Because frankly, pretty much none of them have any real experience guarding an offensive threat like Jerry West.

Edit: Oh sorry, missed Oscar Robertson. Four teams.

I don't think the home team is getting enough love. We actually match up against teams like Chicago very well. Magic is a freak at the point so nobody alone is stopping him but with Frazier and Hondo and Vincanity we match up with their size and quickness on both ends. That leaves things in the big guys hands and when we match up Walton and Ewing I see a close battle, give and take, both have size and athletic ability in their given years. So that brings things to Reed versus Duncan (no contest both ends of the floor, total domination by Duncan) and the benches which again I see as pretty even matchup to matchup. So when this plays out I see it coming down to game 7 and Timmy putting things on his shoulders and the Celts bringing in #18.

You think Magic, West, Durant versus Frazier, Hondo and Carter is an even battle?

I think your needing to put Vince on Durant and Magic's advantage over Frazier clearly favors Chicago while the Timmy versus Reed battle isn't nearly as lopsided as you think.

Good game overall but I think the key to a Chicago-Boston matchup lies in Boston's lack of overall ball movement and ability to defend the same, especially on the wing where you have one great defender(Hondo) and many, many shoot first, non defending, my stats first players like Vince, AI, Peja(not as much as the other but a bad defender), Alex English and David Thompson.

Still, very good game and close, as I would imagine every matchup in this environment to be

I think you highly underestimate the defensive abilities of Boston with the #1 defensive PG of all time and a guy in Hondo that could guard anyone. I think our team D between those 3 guys will at a minimum neutralize them. Our speed and hustle will make the difference on the offensive side. I still believe Tim Duncan absolutely dominates Reed on both ends and in the end makes the difference.
I agree very close match up and the benches are close.

My laptop is acting up but I will be back in the morning, for more fun

[33-00-32]

Someone mentioned mascots earlier, The Celtics retain their current guy:

TP4U...you win best mascot.

I think I can say this is a unanimous league wide decision.

Thanks, hahaha, manana

[RebusRankin]

I could put T-Mac in a SG, defend Johnson with him and leave Lever on West. Joe Johnson can defend pgs like Magic too. Just something to consider.

[StartOrien]

i'll ask here before making a thread of it tomorrow. Anyone know where I could buy one of those Dirk shirts where it's just a silhoette of him doing his one foot up lean back shots? Ran a quick google and didn't find any leads.

[KCattheStripe]

Man, I like my team.

[mgent]

I never said he was a better 3pt shooter, I said he was a better shooter.

And are you really acting like .004 is a victory?  I mean call 3pt shooting a wash but don't act like .004 is really better, especially when he's shooting almost 1/3 less 3s.

well Paul is the better foul shooter as well and since you don't think .004 is worth anything then the .003 they are separated from 2 point land doesn't mean anything either.  

Acting like Williams is so much a better shooter (like you were doing) isn't borne in reality and that frankly is the only area they are even close.  Paul is significantly better in every other aspect of basketball.  Unless of course defense, rebounding, and passing don't matter.

I don't think I was acting like he was SO much of a better shooter, he was when they entered the league but Paul has improved.  I said he was a better shooter, that's it, and I still think that's true as he relies more on the mid-range whereas Paul prefers to get into the paint.  I also don't think more 3 pointers made at a similar percentage is indicative of a worse 3pt shooter, it's pretty much a wash.

I said at the moment it could go either way all right?  If your opinion is Paul is better, that's fine with me, you're not the only one.  I think by the end of their careers, Williams will be considered better, and he will play at his top level longer than Paul will.  It's just speculation on my part.

To say that it's not even close and that Paul is clearly and significantly better in every aspect isn't a fair evaluation, and I don't think you'll find a lot of people that would agree with that.

well I didn't see anyone else mentioning Williams as the best PG since Stockton, yet quite a few thought Paul was.  I think you are the only person on this blog that thinks Williams and Paul are even close.

It's a pretty hot debate, the Deron Williams vs Chris Paul argument.

Lots of divided opinion about which player is better.

--------------------------------------------------

Personally, I think Deron Williams is better and have thought so since the end of the first month of their second seasons.

I have considered Deron Williams the best PG in the NBA since that time (end of first month of his second season) although his seat has come under question this season.  

Oh wow, so I'm not the ONLY person on the blog who thinks it's a valid debate and Chris Paul isn't a significantly superior player in every facet of the game?  I'd really love for some other people to tell us how close they are as a PG, player, or shooter.

Head to head:
CP:  15.4ppg, 9apg, 3.4rpg, 22% 3pt, 41.8% FG, 4-12 record
DW:  16.7ppg, 8.4apg, 3.1rpg, 44$ 3pt, 53.3 FG, 12-4 record

The only reason why I brought it up originally is because I think Deron Williams would have been a 100x better fit with your team than Paul.  For example, last year 47% of Deron's buckets were assisted.  Chris Paul:  12%

[Bahku]

Kwhit, Roy, and IP ... I have your questions and will answer ASAP ... I worked 17 hours last night and since I've gotten home my internet/phone/cable keeps crashing. Gonna try and do the PAPOUG and PAPTBG right now, then I'll be back. Thanks!

[Who]

You can't stick Nate Archibald on Magic Johnson. He'll kill him in the post.

There are only three teams that can consider defending Magic with their starting PGs. Boston with W.Frazier, Los Angeles with G.Payton and Seattle with J.Kidd. Even then, I'd much rather have someone with more size, small forward type physique, to stick onto Magic.

And every team outside of those guys needs to put one of their wings on Magic leaving their PG on Jerry West. And nobody with an undersized PG (6-1 or smaller) should feel any bit comfortable at the thought of their little guard having to defend a two guard of Jerry West scoring prowess. Because frankly, pretty much none of them have any real experience guarding an offensive threat like Jerry West.

Edit: Oh sorry, missed Oscar Robertson. Four teams.

I don't think the home team is getting enough love. We actually match up against teams like Chicago very well. Magic is a freak at the point so nobody alone is stopping him but with Frazier and Hondo and Vincanity we match up with their size and quickness on both ends. That leaves things in the big guys hands and when we match up Walton and Ewing I see a close battle, give and take, both have size and athletic ability in their given years. So that brings things to Reed versus Duncan (no contest both ends of the floor, total domination by Duncan) and the benches which again I see as pretty even matchup to matchup. So when this plays out I see it coming down to game 7 and Timmy putting things on his shoulders and the Celts bringing in #18.

This is the way I see the starting lineups playing this matchup out:

PG - Magic Johnson vs Hondo - advantage Chicago
SG - Jerry West vs Walt Frazier - neutral
SF - Kevin Durant vs Vince Carter - neutral
PF - Willis Reed vs Tim Duncan - advantage Boston
C - Bill Walton vs Patrick Ewing - advantage Chicago

I think Chicago's starting lineup beats Boston's starting five more often than not.

The benches have yet to come into play and that may change the outcome.

[Moranis]

After giving a tongue-bath to the Lakers, let me ask LA a question:

You've continuously pointed out that 'defense wins championship,' is there any concern that you might not have enough offense?

being someone who has the same philosophy I think it fair to say that great defense, truly great team defense, creates its own offense.

Its easy to look at these stats and figure that's about what those players will do but put those same players against elite defensive teams and things change, sometimes drastically.

Turnovers, defensive rebounding lead to extra possessions and more points, many times easy points. I think that gets lost in these things.

Look at the 2008 Celtics.Not outstanding offense but their defense could create offense and dictate a game and limit other teams that had an offensive philosophy, sometime dominating them because of that defense and transition offense caused by it.

I would have grave concerns that your elite defense won't have anywhere near the impact you think it will playing against elite offenses.  Defense win championships, but when you are playing teams with much better offenses and still having an elite defense, I don't think your slight defensive edge is going to be enough.

I think any time you have the ability to make a team shoot 5-10% FG% less than normal, that puts you in a better position to win.

Look at the 07-08 Lakers...Boston had a great team, no doubt, but LA had the prettiest looking offense, with Kobe, Lamar and Gasol.

Boston beat them in 6 games.

And in this draft format, IMO, say in a match between Rodman and Lebron, Rodman takes Lebron out of the picture somewhat...doesn't stop him, no one can...but limits his output.

I think Rodman (or Prime KG) and maybe a few other defenders on here would do that to Lebron.

And in KG limiting Lebron, he would still be able to get his offense...Prime KG was that good.

That's why I love my team as is...Moses (or Shaq) could limit Kareem somewhat, but then our team isn't dependent on just Kareem scoring 30 pts a night.

My offense was not geared around one or two offensively-gifted players, but 7 or 8 very capable ones who also excelled defensively.

My team is not a one man show offensively.  I have a 35 point per game MVP in my starting lineup and two other guys just below Lebron in the scoring department and even my PG is among the highest scoring PG's in the league.  I only have two players on my bench below 20 ppg and they are both above 15.   

[Who]

I could put T-Mac in a SG, defend Johnson with him and leave Lever on West. Joe Johnson can defend pgs like Magic too. Just something to consider.

T.McGrady + J.Johnson + one of Isiah Thomas or Rick Barry

Is a pretty sweet perimeter combination. All three guys can handle and pass the ball. The defensive range of McGrady and JJ is very impressive and gives your perimeter corps real size and quickness out there defensively. Very nice.

----------------------------------------

I would consider starting J.Johnson over M.Richmond for JJ's defensive ability.

Mitch's limited defensive range - one position player with average to slightly below average size - will be less of an issue off the bench.

Joe Johnson can be a nice glue guy for your team defensively. Can play all three perimeter defensively + is a very versatile offensive player and a highly capable spot up shooters when playing alongside other creators offensively. 

That defensive versatility would be good for a perimeter team with an undersized PG and undersized SF.