Doc River's coaching thread (merged)

[nickagneta]

This thread is ridiculous!!!

The coach did not lose this game. If anything his coaching kept this team in the game given the fact that:

 - Ray Allen didn't show up in the first half
 - KG didn't show up offensively all night
 - Big baby disappeared from the face of basketball somewhere around the end of January
 - Rajon Rondo is playing less than two days after separating his elbow
 - Shaq hasn't played real basketball since February and is old, injured, overweight, immobile and basically done
 - Doc's bench after the first 9 is pathetic
 - Delonte is playing on cortisone shots and guts.
 - 5 of the 9 players in Doc's rotation are over 33 years old or older, a lot older.

Are people really going to blame the coach given these circumstances? Really? Cause if you are I have to question whether you are really looking at the big picture here or just angry and taking out your frustrations on the coach rather than on people it deserves to be on like the GM who constructed this team and the players who played poorly.

Those are all things that add into the loss.


So is going small in the 4th quarter and OT.  During that time, Heat outscored the Celtics 27-17.



JO is one of the guys that are playing well.  He should not be an after thought down the stretch. 

Going small cost the Celtics nothing. They weren't seriously outrebounded. They weren't seriously beat in the paint. facts are the Celtics missed there easy shots and the heat made theirs. Playing small ball had nothing to do with it.

Did the C's lose because they were posted up inside? No.
Did the C's lose because they were outrebounded late? No.
Did the C's lose because the Heat had some great mismatch because the C's went small? No.

The C's lost because the guys the coach trusted most to win the game missed their shots and played poorly in overtime. Very simple. It had nothing to do with small ball or JO not playing it had to do with KG's horrible offense, the team's poor handling of the ball late, and the team's poor shooting late and because the Heat simply played better than they did.

[wdleehi]

This thread is ridiculous!!!

The coach did not lose this game. If anything his coaching kept this team in the game given the fact that:

 - Ray Allen didn't show up in the first half
 - KG didn't show up offensively all night
 - Big baby disappeared from the face of basketball somewhere around the end of January
 - Rajon Rondo is playing less than two days after separating his elbow
 - Shaq hasn't played real basketball since February and is old, injured, overweight, immobile and basically done
 - Doc's bench after the first 9 is pathetic
 - Delonte is playing on cortisone shots and guts.
 - 5 of the 9 players in Doc's rotation are over 33 years old or older, a lot older.

Are people really going to blame the coach given these circumstances? Really? Cause if you are I have to question whether you are really looking at the big picture here or just angry and taking out your frustrations on the coach rather than on people it deserves to be on like the GM who constructed this team and the players who played poorly.

Those are all things that add into the loss.


So is going small in the 4th quarter and OT.  During that time, Heat outscored the Celtics 27-17.



JO is one of the guys that are playing well.  He should not be an after thought down the stretch. 

Going small cost the Celtics nothing. They weren't seriously outrebounded. They weren't seriously beat in the paint. facts are the Celtics missed there easy shots and the heat made theirs. Playing small ball had nothing to do with it.

Did the C's lose because they were posted up inside? No.
Did the C's lose because they were outrebounded late? No.
Did the C's lose because the Heat had some great mismatch because the C's went small? No.

The C's lost because the guys the coach trusted most to win the game missed their shots and played poorly in overtime. Very simple. It had nothing to do with small ball or JO not playing it had to do with KG's horrible offense, the team's poor handling of the ball late, and the team's poor shooting late and because the Heat simply played better than they did.

27-17 with the small lineup.  It was not working.  Never went away from it. 

[FatjohnReturns]

When we sealed the Game 3 win Rondo was in the locker room. This team can play and win without Rondo. You dont play a guy who dislocated his elbow 2 days ago 39 minutes.

Doc opted to go with a guy playing on one arm over a healthy Carlos Arroyo. Anyone else think Rondo should have sat voluntarily knowing maybe a healthy player like Carlos might be able to give the team more. Nah Rondos pride would never allow that.

Its no newsflash that Docs rotations are terrible. If you expect Doc to utilize our players to create mismatches for the Celtics you are going to be disappointed.

[angryguy77]

Thanks Doc, for being an ignorant, stubborn and incompetent coach.

You didn't a play any center for most of the second half.
Your love affair with Glen Davis cost us.
And most of all, that half as* stupid play you called at the end of regulation cost us as well.

Anyone want to know Danny's biggest mistake in the last 12 months? It was begging Doc to come back and coach this team instead of offering the job to Thibedou.

And now my heart is broken and will be all summer long.
Thanks Doc...thanks for nothing.

This.

The only thing that overshadowed our bad execution was Doc's horrible coaching. I'm furious at his stubborn decision making. You have to make adjustments, instead, he just tried to fit a square peg in a round hole the entire series.

It is true, a caveman can out coach Doc

[nickagneta]

This thread is ridiculous!!!

The coach did not lose this game. If anything his coaching kept this team in the game given the fact that:

 - Ray Allen didn't show up in the first half
 - KG didn't show up offensively all night
 - Big baby disappeared from the face of basketball somewhere around the end of January
 - Rajon Rondo is playing less than two days after separating his elbow
 - Shaq hasn't played real basketball since February and is old, injured, overweight, immobile and basically done
 - Doc's bench after the first 9 is pathetic
 - Delonte is playing on cortisone shots and guts.
 - 5 of the 9 players in Doc's rotation are over 33 years old or older, a lot older.

Are people really going to blame the coach given these circumstances? Really? Cause if you are I have to question whether you are really looking at the big picture here or just angry and taking out your frustrations on the coach rather than on people it deserves to be on like the GM who constructed this team and the players who played poorly.

Those are all things that add into the loss.


So is going small in the 4th quarter and OT.  During that time, Heat outscored the Celtics 27-17.



JO is one of the guys that are playing well.  He should not be an after thought down the stretch. 

Going small cost the Celtics nothing. They weren't seriously outrebounded. They weren't seriously beat in the paint. facts are the Celtics missed there easy shots and the heat made theirs. Playing small ball had nothing to do with it.

Did the C's lose because they were posted up inside? No.
Did the C's lose because they were outrebounded late? No.
Did the C's lose because the Heat had some great mismatch because the C's went small? No.

The C's lost because the guys the coach trusted most to win the game missed their shots and played poorly in overtime. Very simple. It had nothing to do with small ball or JO not playing it had to do with KG's horrible offense, the team's poor handling of the ball late, and the team's poor shooting late and because the Heat simply played better than they did.

27-17 with the small lineup.  It was not working.  Never went away from it. 

I gather Jermaine O'Neal's presence  would have helped with the 5 turnovers in the overtime and the 1-5 shooting in the overtime and would have stopped Chris Bosh from scoring twice even though KG would have been guarding him.

Your points example is ridiculous because it doesn't take into consideration what actually happened or whu they lost just the final results.

The c's didn't lose because of small ball. They lost because they played sloppy ball in the OT, missed their shots and the heat played better than they did. Crap like that happens to older, more injurer teams in overtimes late in the year.

[BballTim]

When we sealed the Game 3 win Rondo was in the locker room. This team can play and win without Rondo. You dont play a guy who dislocated his elbow 2 days ago 39 minutes.

Doc opted to go with a guy playing on one arm over a healthy Carlos Arroyo. Anyone else think Rondo should have sat voluntarily knowing maybe a healthy player like Carlos might be able to give the team more. Nah Rondos pride would never allow that.

  I don't think too many people think Rondo should have voluntarily sat so we could get more minutes for Arroyo. Frankly I doubt he could have played as well as Rondo did tonight.

  By the way, when Rondo left the game with the injury in game 3 we were up 10 and when he came back in at the end of the quarter we were up 11. Treading water without Rondo was fairly impressive compared to what had happened with Rondo out of the games up until then. For the series we're a +15 with Rondo playing and -27 with him on the bench.

[twinbree]

Riding our starters to the ground has been our losing strategy since the 2009 postseason. Rondo could have played less. I get our guys are warriors and want to play etc. etc. but they really need to be kept on a tight leash and monitored closely when injured. I blame the training staff for this more so than Doc.

I'm disappointed with Doc's minute management and rotation tonight but then I usually am so I'm not particularly mad at him. I'm sure he'll make adjustments for the next game that hopefully pay off.

He also really needs to get something out of Krystic and a lot more out of Green or Danny needs to give up mid-season acquisitions for life. Those have not been kind to us at all in the Big 3 era.

[FatjohnReturns]

When we sealed the Game 3 win Rondo was in the locker room. This team can play and win without Rondo. You dont play a guy who dislocated his elbow 2 days ago 39 minutes.

Doc opted to go with a guy playing on one arm over a healthy Carlos Arroyo. Anyone else think Rondo should have sat voluntarily knowing maybe a healthy player like Carlos might be able to give the team more. Nah Rondos pride would never allow that.

  I don't think too many people think Rondo should have voluntarily sat so we could get more minutes for Arroyo. Frankly I doubt he could have played as well as Rondo did tonight.

  By the way, when Rondo left the game with the injury we were up 10 and when he came back in at the end of the quarter we were up 11. Treading water without Rondo was fairly impressive compared to what had happened with Rondo out of the games up until then. For the series we're a +15 with Rondo playing and -27 with him on the bench.

Tim no one here expects you to have a objective opinion on Rondo.
Do you seriously believe its better to play a guy with a dislocated elbow over a healthy player?

[wdleehi]

This thread is ridiculous!!!

The coach did not lose this game. If anything his coaching kept this team in the game given the fact that:

 - Ray Allen didn't show up in the first half
 - KG didn't show up offensively all night
 - Big baby disappeared from the face of basketball somewhere around the end of January
 - Rajon Rondo is playing less than two days after separating his elbow
 - Shaq hasn't played real basketball since February and is old, injured, overweight, immobile and basically done
 - Doc's bench after the first 9 is pathetic
 - Delonte is playing on cortisone shots and guts.
 - 5 of the 9 players in Doc's rotation are over 33 years old or older, a lot older.

Are people really going to blame the coach given these circumstances? Really? Cause if you are I have to question whether you are really looking at the big picture here or just angry and taking out your frustrations on the coach rather than on people it deserves to be on like the GM who constructed this team and the players who played poorly.

Those are all things that add into the loss.


So is going small in the 4th quarter and OT.  During that time, Heat outscored the Celtics 27-17.



JO is one of the guys that are playing well.  He should not be an after thought down the stretch. 

Going small cost the Celtics nothing. They weren't seriously outrebounded. They weren't seriously beat in the paint. facts are the Celtics missed there easy shots and the heat made theirs. Playing small ball had nothing to do with it.

Did the C's lose because they were posted up inside? No.
Did the C's lose because they were outrebounded late? No.
Did the C's lose because the Heat had some great mismatch because the C's went small? No.

The C's lost because the guys the coach trusted most to win the game missed their shots and played poorly in overtime. Very simple. It had nothing to do with small ball or JO not playing it had to do with KG's horrible offense, the team's poor handling of the ball late, and the team's poor shooting late and because the Heat simply played better than they did.

27-17 with the small lineup.  It was not working.  Never went away from it. 

I gather Jermaine O'Neal's presence  would have helped with the 5 turnovers in the overtime and the 1-5 shooting in the overtime and would have stopped Chris Bosh from scoring twice even though KG would have been guarding him.

Your points example is ridiculous because it doesn't take into consideration what actually happened or whu they lost just the final results.

The c's didn't lose because of small ball. They lost because they played sloppy ball in the OT, missed their shots and the heat played better than they did. Crap like that happens to older, more injurer teams in overtimes late in the year.

Outscore 27-17 is ridiculous.  Playing to the other teams strength is ridiculous.  Ignoring the success the Celtics have had against Miami when they play with size is ridiculous.  

Being out rebounded 45 to 28 is ridiculous.  

[lrybrd]

Things that drive me nuts about this team:

1.  The players' continued insistence on taking jumpers instead of going to the basket (especially Garnett). Can he please go to the rim like he did in Game 2?

2.  Ray is a great shooter but he is without question one of the worse passers.  If he leaves his feet again before making a pass and throws another ball away, I'm going to lose my mind.

3.  Mindless turnovers.  For the love of God, can we stop throwing the ball away.  Empty trips cost us the W tonight.

[Texstyles]

Like I said earlier.  Playing small ball with one of the best small ball teams in the league is just not smart.

Also I agree with the poster that said the only mistake Danny made was begging Doc to come back.  I said it then and have said it to this day.  Tom Thibs was a hell of a coach and Danny let him slip through our fingers for 1 more year of DOC.  HUGE MISTAKE !!!

[dlpin]

Doc has many strong points. He manages veterans and egos like no one else. The respect he earns from his players is incredible.

But he has also one serious flaw, in that he is loyal to people who have been with him long to a fault. His main problem this series is playing Davis as much as he has. Now, you may say that the shortage of big men made him play Davis as much as he has, but that is not really the cause as he is averaging as many minutes as JO.

There is absolutely no reason whatsoever that Davis should be getting as many minutes as JO and Green this series. JO is +13 for the series. Green has been out most efficient scorer. Meanwhile, BBD is having a team worst -33 for the series, and shooting a team worst 30%. Now, plus-minus may not be the best stat given how much it depends on line ups, but when you are the team worst by such a large margin it can't be anyone else's fault.

[KGDunks]

Miami hit some amazing shots and we turned it over there's the story.

[Fortmax]

Doc isn't the reason we lost tonight.

... and neither is Rondo.

KG, maybe.  Lack of rebounding, definitely.

I'm not saying Rondo is the reason Celtics lost. But the decision to play him in clutch situation when he is clearly handicapped like i said is mind boggling. Kudos to Rondo being a warrior. But Doc should play Able-bodied at the end instead of Rondo. He is handicapped. Dumb decision by Doc.

I agree 100 %, Doc is not doing a good job here,Play Delonte at the Starting point guard,and then  give  Arroyo or Bradley some playing time.

Why not give chance to Troy Murphy instead of Davis ?

Doc Rivers suck !,his rotation sucks !         

[BballTim]

When we sealed the Game 3 win Rondo was in the locker room. This team can play and win without Rondo. You dont play a guy who dislocated his elbow 2 days ago 39 minutes.

Doc opted to go with a guy playing on one arm over a healthy Carlos Arroyo. Anyone else think Rondo should have sat voluntarily knowing maybe a healthy player like Carlos might be able to give the team more. Nah Rondos pride would never allow that.

  I don't think too many people think Rondo should have voluntarily sat so we could get more minutes for Arroyo. Frankly I doubt he could have played as well as Rondo did tonight.

  By the way, when Rondo left the game with the injury we were up 10 and when he came back in at the end of the quarter we were up 11. Treading water without Rondo was fairly impressive compared to what had happened with Rondo out of the games up until then. For the series we're a +15 with Rondo playing and -27 with him on the bench.

Tim no one here expects you to have a objective opinion on Rondo.
Do you seriously believe its better to play a guy with a dislocated elbow over a healthy player?

  Haha. You're the objective one? Everything in my post was true, which in your universe translates to "hopelessly biased". God forbid someone bring some facts into one of your anti-Rondo rants.

  To answer your question, I seriously think that it's better to play the players that give you the best chance of winning. Rondo didn't have a great game but I don't think  it's a stretch to say he did better than Arroyo would have or Delonte would have. It didn't bother me when Doc sat Rondo to play Jeff Green late in the game. For the most part Rondo didn't really hurt our team, although clearly he wasn't at his best. And obviously it's not the first time that one of the big four have been injured or the first time that injured player was in the game with a healthy player on the bench.