Doc Rivers Last Night

[2short]

I feel ray or paul has to be on the court.  Either of these guys can create offense in different ways.  Not knocking doc but if I was coaching I'd have delonte in for ray then sub rondo out with west moving to pg.  That gives both guards a break and delonte minutes to get in a groove.  I would do the same with green for pierce then kg.  I really would limit davis' minutes, green offers more, davis will pout but I think he's heading for the biggest paycheck he can get so who cares.  Also I'd work JO in the post til he fouls out.  KG minutes at backup c or give krstic time with pick and pops but limit him to 10 minutes or less unless we have foul trouble.
We need our starters rested for fourth.  So far pierce, ray and kg (in these 2 games) have seemed old and slow.  More than a few times rondo ran a break himself and I noticed him yelling at teammates to move to open posistions as they were standing still.

[WedmanIsMyHero]

Absolutely true. TP.

I don't understand why Doc played 5 members of the bench at once. That didn't work during the regular season and it sure as hell won't work in the playoffs.

When he did it, someone had gotten hurt, it was only for like 2 minutes, but it shouldn't have been done.  With Rondo, Allen, Pierce and KG, 2 of those guys need to be on the floor at all times, no matter what.  That's why Ginobili comes off the bench in San Antonio.  It makes it easier to ensure that either him, Parker or Duncan will be on the court at all times.

I've been saying for years that *two* of those guys should be on the floor at all times, and I stand by that.

Doc seems even more resistant than normal to mixing the starters in with the bench, and I truly don't understand that.  Our bench, as a unit, sucks.

Could not agree more. Look at Green. He played the best I've seen him when Pierce was hurt and he was playing with starters. Same for West. When you put them in with Davis and Kystic, not so good. They need to become the focal point for the offense, and they are all better as roll players.

A little off topic, put I believe that's a big reason why really none of the players the Celtics pick up to fix their bench don't work out. Marbury, Nate, Green, etc, all scorers until they get here. I don't think they just forget how to score in Boston. They get thrown out there as a group of subs and it just doesn't work.

[WedmanIsMyHero]

Rivers is a good motivator but a bad game coach. This has been true for years. . . .

I don't understand why Doc played 5 members of the bench at once. That didn't work during the regular season and it sure as hell won't work in the playoffs.

When he did it, someone had gotten hurt, it was only for like 2 minutes, but it shouldn't have been done.  With Rondo, Allen, Pierce and KG, 2 of those guys need to be on the floor at all times, no matter what.  That's why Ginobili comes off the bench in San Antonio.  It makes it easier to ensure that either him, Parker or Duncan will be on the court at all times.

I've been saying for years that *two* of those guys should be on the floor at all times, and I stand by that.

Doc seems even more resistant than normal to mixing the starters in with the bench, and I truly don't understand that.  Our bench, as a unit, sucks.

[Celticsfan336]

Doc doesnt make in game adjustments that actually change the game in our favor.

Doc stubborness to stick to the same rotations no matter what is going on at the moment is what cost us that game. 7:10 the game was tied at 80.

sorry but that is completely overstated exaggerated garbage.
They won the game because Lebron hit those very difficult and bad shots.

I don't know why you guys are hammering Baby so much.
Davis is a proven player on the low post late in games.
Remember how many games he has won for us with those baseline spins to the hoop? He gets fouled and hits his free throws.
After 3 or 4 attempts the Heat will start concentrating on him and then it will open up the rest of the floor for Paul and Ray and Rondo.
Unluckily for us big baby didn't get fouled and couldn't put any of this low post shots in which he would normally be favored to make a few of them, if not at least drawing fouls on the big men or the help defender. The reason they were more aggressive is because the Heat's low post defenders weren't in foul trouble so they went after him.
It was an unlucky night.
we are down 2-0.
Now it's time to go defend home court which we should be able to do.
Chins up.

I am still very confident in the Celtics, but davis has been a liability and that is a near fact

[gar]

Doc got out coached in a big way last night and it was inexcusable. He should known that Wade, Lebron and Bosh would all play major minutes. From the beginning that means there needs to be a substitution pattern that allows our starters and our subs to mix in order to keep the pressure of offensively. Delonte and Green played well in this context and then Doc yanked them and went with a gimpy bunch of starters instead. Why can't we play Kristic and Garnett or BBD and JO. Green should have played 30 min. last night, perhaps then people would have seen what he can bring to this team if we had a coach that did not let the big three run the show. Time for some leadership from the coach.

[Potapenko Boxout]

Doc doesnt make in game adjustments that actually change the game in our favor.

Doc stubborness to stick to the same rotations no matter what is going on at the moment is what cost us that game. 7:10 the game was tied at 80.

sorry but that is completely overstated exaggerated garbage.
They won the game because Lebron hit those very difficult and bad shots.

I don't know why you guys are hammering Baby so much.
Davis is a proven player on the low post late in games.
Remember how many games he has won for us with those baseline spins to the hoop? He gets fouled and hits his free throws.
After 3 or 4 attempts the Heat will start concentrating on him and then it will open up the rest of the floor for Paul and Ray and Rondo.
Unluckily for us big baby didn't get fouled and couldn't put any of this low post shots in which he would normally be favored to make a few of them, if not at least drawing fouls on the big men or the help defender. The reason they were more aggressive is because the Heat's low post defenders weren't in foul trouble so they went after him.
It was an unlucky night.
we are down 2-0.
Now it's time to go defend home court which we should be able to do.
Chins up.

I am going to do my best to say this in a way that doesnt anger the higher ups here at CB...

Anyone who says, thinks, or even alludes to Big Baby being anything close to a positive influence in the playoffs this year needs to start watching the games.

He has been utterly terrible. My friend compared him to Chuck Knoblauch last night, and I have to say that is a fair comparison. He has totally forgotten how to play his way. Big Baby needs to steal a page from Joel Anthony's book, or steal a page from the Big Baby book from two years ago.

In my opinion, Big Baby wants to prove his worth in the league for a contract very badly. His selfishness offensively echoes this point.

Furthermore, in watching "The Association" and following postgame interviews, it is clear that Glen Davis thinks that he is a significantly better basketball player than he really is. If we had Troy Murphy for the entire year, I think Baby is buried down the bench at this point. This is not an attempt at exaggeration either. And that's real!

[StartOrien]

Rivers is a good motivator but a bad game coach. This has been true for years. . . .

I don't understand why Doc played 5 members of the bench at once. That didn't work during the regular season and it sure as hell won't work in the playoffs.

When he did it, someone had gotten hurt, it was only for like 2 minutes, but it shouldn't have been done.  With Rondo, Allen, Pierce and KG, 2 of those guys need to be on the floor at all times, no matter what.  That's why Ginobili comes off the bench in San Antonio.  It makes it easier to ensure that either him, Parker or Duncan will be on the court at all times.

I've been saying for years that *two* of those guys should be on the floor at all times, and I stand by that.

Doc seems even more resistant than normal to mixing the starters in with the bench, and I truly don't understand that.  Our bench, as a unit, sucks.

He's certainly not perfect, but its hard to matter-of-factly call him a bad in game coach when he's designed countless amount of gorgeous out of bonds plays.

Also, playoffs wise, this is the only game I can think of where I really thought he was making some huge mistakes.

[SF Celtic]

[MBunge]

He's certainly not perfect, but its hard to matter-of-factly call him a bad in game coach when he's designed countless amount of gorgeous out of bonds plays.

Also, playoffs wise, this is the only game I can think of where I really thought he was making some huge mistakes.

There's not much any coach can do when his players stink.  In game one, every Celtic not named Ray Allen or Jermaine O'Neal played like garbage.  In game two, JO, Rondo, Delonte and Green played well and the Big 3 played as badly as I've ever seen, capped off by Ray defending Wade like he'd never seen him play before.

But every coach has flaws that come out in certain situations and Doc's biggest flaws are glaringly on display in this series. 

1.  He's constantly adjusting to the other team instead of trying to make that team adjust to what Boston is doing.  If Miami is going to try and guard Krstic with James Jones or JO with LeBron (both of which happened at certain points in game 2), you HAVE to get those guys the ball in the post.  It may not work, but you've got to at least try and attack Miami instead of worrying about how they're attacking you.

2.  He is blindly loyal to "his guys".  If Krstic misses ONE defensive rotation, Doc has a cow.  When Baby does the same stupid thing he's done a billion times before - getting the ball in the post, facing up and trying to drive to the hole, then getting his shot blocked or being so afraid of a block that he drives in too close and bangs the ball off the bottom of the rim - Doc doesn't even shrug.  And don't even get me started on the bad defensive habits Doc has allowed Rondo to develop.

3.  Doc's rotations are just frequently terrible and he often seems to not actually keep track of who is in the game and why.  Can ANYONE explain why Ray played 40 minutes a game against New York and is playing less against Miami?

Mike

[StartOrien]

3.  Doc's rotations are just frequently terrible and he often seems to not actually keep track of who is in the game and why.  Can ANYONE explain why Ray played 40 minutes a game against New York and is playing less against Miami?

That's a decent point, though two games is a pretty small sample size.

[BballTim]

3.  Doc's rotations are just frequently terrible and he often seems to not actually keep track of who is in the game and why.  Can ANYONE explain why Ray played 40 minutes a game against New York and is playing less against Miami?

That's a decent point, though two games is a pretty small sample size.

  He played 39 minutes in game 1 and was dealing with an injury in game 2. Does this qualify as bad coaching?

[hpantazo]

3.  Doc's rotations are just frequently terrible and he often seems to not actually keep track of who is in the game and why.  Can ANYONE explain why Ray played 40 minutes a game against New York and is playing less against Miami?

That's a decent point, though two games is a pretty small sample size.

  He played 39 minutes in game 1 and was dealing with an injury in game 2. Does this qualify as bad coaching?

yea, Ray said he was having difficulty breathing when he was sitting on the bench after the chest bruise he got from Leroid. Between Ray, Paul, and Rondo, Doc had trouble understanding who could play and who couldn't and when, which totally screwed up the rotations. It still doesn't explain the lack of JO or Green in the 2nd half and the overdose of Davis instead though.

[MBunge]

3.  Doc's rotations are just frequently terrible and he often seems to not actually keep track of who is in the game and why.  Can ANYONE explain why Ray played 40 minutes a game against New York and is playing less against Miami?

That's a decent point, though two games is a pretty small sample size.

  He played 39 minutes in game 1 and was dealing with an injury in game 2. Does this qualify as bad coaching?

No, but playing him 40 minutes a night against a Knicks team, especially after Boston went up 2-0, just might.

Mike

[BballTim]

3.  Doc's rotations are just frequently terrible and he often seems to not actually keep track of who is in the game and why.  Can ANYONE explain why Ray played 40 minutes a game against New York and is playing less against Miami?

That's a decent point, though two games is a pretty small sample size.

  He played 39 minutes in game 1 and was dealing with an injury in game 2. Does this qualify as bad coaching?

No, but playing him 40 minutes a night against a Knicks team, especially after Boston went up 2-0, just might.

Mike

  Because he's too tired now, even after a week off? People always call for Doc to really limit the minutes the players get, but he's claimed on multiple that the players want to play the minutes and restricting their minutes too much keeps them from getting into any kind of rhythm.

  Besides, he had to re-insert his starters in one of the Knicks games because the bench was doing poorly. That affected the minutes as well.

[MBunge]

3.  Doc's rotations are just frequently terrible and he often seems to not actually keep track of who is in the game and why.  Can ANYONE explain why Ray played 40 minutes a game against New York and is playing less against Miami?

That's a decent point, though two games is a pretty small sample size.

  He played 39 minutes in game 1 and was dealing with an injury in game 2. Does this qualify as bad coaching?

No, but playing him 40 minutes a night against a Knicks team, especially after Boston went up 2-0, just might.

Mike

  Because he's too tired now, even after a week off? People always call for Doc to really limit the minutes the players get, but he's claimed on multiple that the players want to play the minutes and restricting their minutes too much keeps them from getting into any kind of rhythm.

  Besides, he had to re-insert his starters in one of the Knicks games because the bench was doing poorly. That affected the minutes as well.

Doc has greatly limited KG's minutes since he came to Boston, while frequently running Ray right into the ground.

Try this comparison.

Ray Allen - 37 minutes a game for his career.  36.1 minutes a game this regular season.

Kobe Bryant - 36.4 minutes a year for his career.  33.9 minutes a game this regular season.

Mike