Author Topic: Should have Ibaka or Harden over Green  (Read 26189 times)

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Re: Should have Ibaka or Harden over Green
« Reply #60 on: April 24, 2011, 03:16:33 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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The Thunder wanted to trade Krstic and Green because they were the weak links in their lineup.  They knew the potential of Harden and Ibacka and weren't giving them up.  Presti is too smart.  He would have waited till summer and let both Green and Krstic walk and go after Perk as a free agent.   They got Mohammed in a separate trade and I don't see them desperate enough for a center to give up players other than the two they did. 

We wanted to trade Perk also... but I wouldn't have minded to trade Baby  ;D

You're right, Presti is a smart GM, but then why did the Thunder start Nenad and Green over the more talented Ibaka and Harden? I think this trade will be good for both teams, because they got what they needed.

But in the end, and it's still to be seen, I bet Danny won the trade. Green will be fine against Miami, Bulls and Lakers, and Nenad will be a big bonus against the Bulls and the Lakers. Oh, and that Clipper's pick will be sweet in 2012.

Go Celtics!


Neither are C. 



Green was their third best player the year before.  He has a lot of talent.  He was just overexposed playing out of position for so much of the time. 

Re: Should have Ibaka or Harden over Green
« Reply #61 on: April 24, 2011, 03:21:45 PM »

Offline Fan from VT

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The Thunder wanted to trade Krstic and Green because they were the weak links in their lineup.  They knew the potential of Harden and Ibacka and weren't giving them up.  Presti is too smart.  He would have waited till summer and let both Green and Krstic walk and go after Perk as a free agent.   They got Mohammed in a separate trade and I don't see them desperate enough for a center to give up players other than the two they did. 

We wanted to trade Perk also... but I wouldn't have minded to trade Baby  ;D

You're right, Presti is a smart GM, but then why did the Thunder start Nenad and Green over the more talented Ibaka and Harden? I think this trade will be good for both teams, because they got what they needed.

But in the end, and it's still to be seen, I bet Danny won the trade. Green will be fine against Miami, Bulls and Lakers, and Nenad will be a big bonus against the Bulls and the Lakers. Oh, and that Clipper's pick will be sweet in 2012.

Go Celtics!


Neither are C. 



Green was their third best player the year before.  He has a lot of talent.  He was just overexposed playing out of position for so much of the time. 



I imagine they started Green for 2 reasons:
1. Keep his trade value up. Hard to claim your 5th best player is your 3rd best player when the "3rd" best player is coming off the bench.
2. He has seniority, so it looks more like a failure, and probably would bother Green more than it would Harden to come off the bench.

Re: Should have Ibaka or Harden over Green
« Reply #62 on: April 24, 2011, 03:25:23 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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The Thunder wanted to trade Krstic and Green because they were the weak links in their lineup.  They knew the potential of Harden and Ibacka and weren't giving them up.  Presti is too smart.  He would have waited till summer and let both Green and Krstic walk and go after Perk as a free agent.   They got Mohammed in a separate trade and I don't see them desperate enough for a center to give up players other than the two they did. 

We wanted to trade Perk also... but I wouldn't have minded to trade Baby  ;D

You're right, Presti is a smart GM, but then why did the Thunder start Nenad and Green over the more talented Ibaka and Harden? I think this trade will be good for both teams, because they got what they needed.

But in the end, and it's still to be seen, I bet Danny won the trade. Green will be fine against Miami, Bulls and Lakers, and Nenad will be a big bonus against the Bulls and the Lakers. Oh, and that Clipper's pick will be sweet in 2012.

Go Celtics!


Neither are C. 



Green was their third best player the year before.  He has a lot of talent.  He was just overexposed playing out of position for so much of the time. 



I imagine they started Green for 2 reasons:
1. Keep his trade value up. Hard to claim your 5th best player is your 3rd best player when the "3rd" best player is coming off the bench.
2. He has seniority, so it looks more like a failure, and probably would bother Green more than it would Harden to come off the bench.


Maybe their coach realized how lesser a player Green was as a backup.

Re: Should have Ibaka or Harden over Green
« Reply #63 on: April 24, 2011, 03:27:50 PM »

Offline bbd24

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The Thunder wanted to trade Krstic and Green because they were the weak links in their lineup.  They knew the potential of Harden and Ibacka and weren't giving them up.  Presti is too smart.  He would have waited till summer and let both Green and Krstic walk and go after Perk as a free agent.   They got Mohammed in a separate trade and I don't see them desperate enough for a center to give up players other than the two they did. 

How is giving 8/9 M per to a player of Perkins caliber 'smart' ?

Even the posters against the trade wouldn't give him that cash, and they know it.

I agree with Rondos take on the trade.

"it was a cool trade, but it's just tough losing friends. At the same time, nobody died' -- Rajon Rondo, 'the association'

Re: Should have Ibaka or Harden over Green
« Reply #64 on: April 24, 2011, 03:28:23 PM »

Offline Fan from VT

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The Thunder wanted to trade Krstic and Green because they were the weak links in their lineup.  They knew the potential of Harden and Ibacka and weren't giving them up.  Presti is too smart.  He would have waited till summer and let both Green and Krstic walk and go after Perk as a free agent.   They got Mohammed in a separate trade and I don't see them desperate enough for a center to give up players other than the two they did. 

We wanted to trade Perk also... but I wouldn't have minded to trade Baby  ;D

You're right, Presti is a smart GM, but then why did the Thunder start Nenad and Green over the more talented Ibaka and Harden? I think this trade will be good for both teams, because they got what they needed.

But in the end, and it's still to be seen, I bet Danny won the trade. Green will be fine against Miami, Bulls and Lakers, and Nenad will be a big bonus against the Bulls and the Lakers. Oh, and that Clipper's pick will be sweet in 2012.

Go Celtics!


Neither are C. 



Green was their third best player the year before.  He has a lot of talent.  He was just overexposed playing out of position for so much of the time. 



I imagine they started Green for 2 reasons:
1. Keep his trade value up. Hard to claim your 5th best player is your 3rd best player when the "3rd" best player is coming off the bench.
2. He has seniority, so it looks more like a failure, and probably would bother Green more than it would Harden to come off the bench.


Maybe their coach realized how lesser a player Green was as a backup.


And that's a problem, one that has been true of Davis too. More effective as a starter than off the bench, but not really good enough to bank on starting, so they have to come off the bench for a good team.

Re: Should have Ibaka or Harden over Green
« Reply #65 on: April 24, 2011, 03:28:39 PM »

Offline ballin

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The Thunder wanted to trade Krstic and Green because they were the weak links in their lineup.  They knew the potential of Harden and Ibacka and weren't giving them up.  Presti is too smart.  He would have waited till summer and let both Green and Krstic walk and go after Perk as a free agent.   They got Mohammed in a separate trade and I don't see them desperate enough for a center to give up players other than the two they did. 

We wanted to trade Perk also... but I wouldn't have minded to trade Baby  ;D

You're right, Presti is a smart GM, but then why did the Thunder start Nenad and Green over the more talented Ibaka and Harden? I think this trade will be good for both teams, because they got what they needed.

But in the end, and it's still to be seen, I bet Danny won the trade. Green will be fine against Miami, Bulls and Lakers, and Nenad will be a big bonus against the Bulls and the Lakers. Oh, and that Clipper's pick will be sweet in 2012.

Go Celtics!

The Thunder started Krstic and Green obviously to pump up their trade value. And ta-da, it worked like a charm, didn't it? Ainge fell for it.

And if anybody refers to Green as a potential superstar again I'm literally going to get sick to my stomach. Literally EVERY advanced stat says that Green is below average, and they can't all be wrong. The dude has "talent" but he doesn't use it properly. And that's what confuses everybody and makes people think he's way better than he actually is.

Jeff Green is the JR Smith of the Celtics. All of the potential to be a top 30 player, yet it's a certainty that he will not live up to the hype.

But seriously, by any measure Jeff Green sucks...

PER: 12.8 (league average is 15)

WS/48: .071 (league average is .100)

on court/off court: -4.4 (the Thunder's defense was 6.6 points per possession worse with him on the court)


Re: Should have Ibaka or Harden over Green
« Reply #66 on: April 24, 2011, 03:38:17 PM »

Offline jowwwman

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I don’t ever post on these forums but after seeing all these replies I just had to say something.  I  find it really puzzling to see so many Green fans jump to his defense when the guy has done NOTHING to show for it. His game three was undeniably his best game in the playoff so far, however wanting to reaffirm my opinion that Jeff Green is way overrated by many members on this board, I watched Green for every second of the game that he was in, and watching him play, I did not see a “superstar in the making” or whatever you want to call it. For every moment he was in the game the knicks were pulling closer to the Celtics and the main reason was Greens poor defense on the NY scrubs (although the poor bench play was part of it).

As for anyone who says that Jeff Green is a good defender because Melo had such a poor shooting night, watch the game again and watch Jeff Green on defense. Everytime he guards Melo he is either hit with a screen forcing one of his teammates to guard Melo, or he gets a foul because he can't keep up when Melo decides to drive on him. In the second quarter when all the starters came out and the lead started dwindling, surprise surprise, Jeff Green's man Shawne Williams goes off for 4-4 or something like that. Watch the game again, you will see in one instance that even Roger Mason of all people schools him with a step back jumper. When Jeff Green is in the game I would rather have Rondo guarding Melo than Green.

I think it’s funny that someone brought up Green's 4 rebounds as if it were some kind of great overlooked achievement, since he's usually such a poor rebounder, but did you actually watch the game to see how he got the four rebounds. Two of the rebounds were at the end of the game in garbage time when we didn't need him to get any more and he was just padding his stats. The other two rebounds he didn't fight or even really have to jump for to get, they kind of just bounced into his hands.

His shooting  and points scores is another thing that p---es me off. The guy has 9 points on 3-8 shooting and people here want to say that he is a SUPERSTAR in the making. Give me a break even scrubs have nights where they look like superstars and they do a hell of a lot better than 9 points on 3-8 shooting to get there.

 I have yet to see a game where Green has been able to contribute to the Celtics in any meaningful way that some other average player cannot. He hasn't gone off for any points, but we dont need that all we need is for him to play decent and not give up the lead. Sadly his defense and poor rebounding and lack of effort to get rebounds, despite his height, means the starters have to tire themselves out after building a respectable lead.

I'm tired of hearing things about his potential or "just wait and see Jeff Green will have a great night and all the haters will shut up." Give me a break, it will take a lot more than one good game for this "superstar “ to make up for his soft play, lack of heart and lack of effort. He represents everything the celtics are not, he's soft, invisible and someone no other team will overrate or pay any attention to besides the team that he is on. He will NEVER be a star player as he just doesn’t have the attitude like he cares. He seems like hes more content with just getting by and not having people bash him than actually play hard and help his team win.

Re: Should have Ibaka or Harden over Green
« Reply #67 on: April 24, 2011, 03:39:57 PM »

Offline aporel#18

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The Thunder wanted to trade Krstic and Green because they were the weak links in their lineup.  They knew the potential of Harden and Ibacka and weren't giving them up.  Presti is too smart.  He would have waited till summer and let both Green and Krstic walk and go after Perk as a free agent.   They got Mohammed in a separate trade and I don't see them desperate enough for a center to give up players other than the two they did. 

We wanted to trade Perk also... but I wouldn't have minded to trade Baby  ;D

You're right, Presti is a smart GM, but then why did the Thunder start Nenad and Green over the more talented Ibaka and Harden? I think this trade will be good for both teams, because they got what they needed.

But in the end, and it's still to be seen, I bet Danny won the trade. Green will be fine against Miami, Bulls and Lakers, and Nenad will be a big bonus against the Bulls and the Lakers. Oh, and that Clipper's pick will be sweet in 2012.

Go Celtics!

The Thunder started Krstic and Green obviously to pump up their trade value. And ta-da, it worked like a charm, didn't it? Ainge fell for it.

And if anybody refers to Green as a potential superstar again I'm literally going to get sick to my stomach. Literally EVERY advanced stat says that Green is below average, and they can't all be wrong. The dude has "talent" but he doesn't use it properly. And that's what confuses everybody and makes people think he's way better than he actually is.

Jeff Green is the JR Smith of the Celtics. All of the potential to be a top 30 player, yet it's a certainty that he will not live up to the hype.

But seriously, by any measure Jeff Green sucks...

PER: 12.8 (league average is 15)

WS/48: .071 (league average is .100)

on court/off court: -4.4 (the Thunder's defense was 6.6 points per possession worse with him on the court)



Ok, so there's a lot of takers on the super-secret showcasing theory...

how many games did they start this season for OKC?

Jeff Green started 49 out of 49 played
Nenad Krstic started 47 out of 47 played

Good. Last season? 76/76 Nenad 82/82 Jeff

That would be the most incredible showcasing in the history of pro sports.

They started because they were OKC's best options. They had no other reliable C, and they didn't trust Ibaka on his firsts seasons in the league.

Re: Should have Ibaka or Harden over Green
« Reply #68 on: April 24, 2011, 03:45:04 PM »

Offline 2008 + 2011 Champions

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Green has lots of untapped potential in my opinion. We're giving up on him a little too early give it some time. Personally i think a training camp will do great things for him sometimes it takes a while to adjust...like Richard Jefferson now compared to last year with the spurs.

Re: Should have Ibaka or Harden over Green
« Reply #69 on: April 24, 2011, 03:48:06 PM »

Offline aporel#18

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I don’t ever post on these forums but after seeing all these replies I just had to say something.  I  find it really puzzling to see so many Green fans jump to his defense when the guy has done NOTHING to show for it. His game three was undeniably his best game in the playoff so far, however wanting to reaffirm my opinion that Jeff Green is way overrated by many members on this board, I watched Green for every second of the game that he was in, and watching him play, I did not see a “superstar in the making” or whatever you want to call it. For every moment he was in the game the knicks were pulling closer to the Celtics and the main reason was Greens poor defense on the NY scrubs (although the poor bench play was part of it).

As for anyone who says that Jeff Green is a good defender because Melo had such a poor shooting night, watch the game again and watch Jeff Green on defense. Everytime he guards Melo he is either hit with a screen forcing one of his teammates to guard Melo, or he gets a foul because he can't keep up when Melo decides to drive on him. In the second quarter when all the starters came out and the lead started dwindling, surprise surprise, Jeff Green's man Shawne Williams goes off for 4-4 or something like that. Watch the game again, you will see in one instance that even Roger Mason of all people schools him with a step back jumper. When Jeff Green is in the game I would rather have Rondo guarding Melo than Green.

I think it’s funny that someone brought up Green's 4 rebounds as if it were some kind of great overlooked achievement, since he's usually such a poor rebounder, but did you actually watch the game to see how he got the four rebounds. Two of the rebounds were at the end of the game in garbage time when we didn't need him to get any more and he was just padding his stats. The other two rebounds he didn't fight or even really have to jump for to get, they kind of just bounced into his hands.

His shooting  and points scores is another thing that p---es me off. The guy has 9 points on 3-8 shooting and people here want to say that he is a SUPERSTAR in the making. Give me a break even scrubs have nights where they look like superstars and they do a hell of a lot better than 9 points on 3-8 shooting to get there.

 I have yet to see a game where Green has been able to contribute to the Celtics in any meaningful way that some other average player cannot. He hasn't gone off for any points, but we dont need that all we need is for him to play decent and not give up the lead. Sadly his defense and poor rebounding and lack of effort to get rebounds, despite his height, means the starters have to tire themselves out after building a respectable lead.

I'm tired of hearing things about his potential or "just wait and see Jeff Green will have a great night and all the haters will shut up." Give me a break, it will take a lot more than one good game for this "superstar “ to make up for his soft play, lack of heart and lack of effort. He represents everything the celtics are not, he's soft, invisible and someone no other team will overrate or pay any attention to besides the team that he is on. He will NEVER be a star player as he just doesn’t have the attitude like he cares. He seems like hes more content with just getting by and not having people bash him than actually play hard and help his team win.


Welcome to the forums, jowwwman. TP

While I don't think he is a Superstar player, he certainly could be a legit All Star. Bashing him doesn't help. Pro basketball is a business, and everybody should understand the trade is not going to be undone. Accept it.

Then, we all have opinions, and get frustrated by our players. I was a big TA fan, but he wanted more. Perk wanted more, and he got it in OKC.

The Celtics need to play better as a team, and that is on Doc. He's got to manage the rotation and stop messing with it.

Re: Should have Ibaka or Harden over Green
« Reply #70 on: April 24, 2011, 04:54:33 PM »

Offline Proveo

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The only thing the Thunder 'should have' done was given that Perkins money to Ibaka. You pay 21 yr old players like Ibaka that kind of money, not a Perkins.

I hope that doesn't come back to bite them come the future and the new cba.

Ibaka is signed through 2013-14

Exactly. How are they paying him going forward ? Especially when the new cba comes out. Ibaka, Westbrook, Durant, Harden........ I'll take any of those off their hands, as would most teams.

They can easily keep those 4 and Perkins. What's the big deal? Perkins new deal is very club-friendly.

Re: Should have Ibaka or Harden over Green
« Reply #71 on: April 24, 2011, 05:04:43 PM »

Offline Proveo

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I don’t ever post on these forums but after seeing all these replies I just had to say something.  I  find it really puzzling to see so many Green fans jump to his defense when the guy has done NOTHING to show for it. His game three was undeniably his best game in the playoff so far, however wanting to reaffirm my opinion that Jeff Green is way overrated by many members on this board, I watched Green for every second of the game that he was in, and watching him play, I did not see a “superstar in the making” or whatever you want to call it. For every moment he was in the game the knicks were pulling closer to the Celtics and the main reason was Greens poor defense on the NY scrubs (although the poor bench play was part of it).

As for anyone who says that Jeff Green is a good defender because Melo had such a poor shooting night, watch the game again and watch Jeff Green on defense. Everytime he guards Melo he is either hit with a screen forcing one of his teammates to guard Melo, or he gets a foul because he can't keep up when Melo decides to drive on him. In the second quarter when all the starters came out and the lead started dwindling, surprise surprise, Jeff Green's man Shawne Williams goes off for 4-4 or something like that. Watch the game again, you will see in one instance that even Roger Mason of all people schools him with a step back jumper. When Jeff Green is in the game I would rather have Rondo guarding Melo than Green.

I think it’s funny that someone brought up Green's 4 rebounds as if it were some kind of great overlooked achievement, since he's usually such a poor rebounder, but did you actually watch the game to see how he got the four rebounds. Two of the rebounds were at the end of the game in garbage time when we didn't need him to get any more and he was just padding his stats. The other two rebounds he didn't fight or even really have to jump for to get, they kind of just bounced into his hands.

His shooting  and points scores is another thing that p---es me off. The guy has 9 points on 3-8 shooting and people here want to say that he is a SUPERSTAR in the making. Give me a break even scrubs have nights where they look like superstars and they do a hell of a lot better than 9 points on 3-8 shooting to get there.

 I have yet to see a game where Green has been able to contribute to the Celtics in any meaningful way that some other average player cannot. He hasn't gone off for any points, but we dont need that all we need is for him to play decent and not give up the lead. Sadly his defense and poor rebounding and lack of effort to get rebounds, despite his height, means the starters have to tire themselves out after building a respectable lead.

I'm tired of hearing things about his potential or "just wait and see Jeff Green will have a great night and all the haters will shut up." Give me a break, it will take a lot more than one good game for this "superstar “ to make up for his soft play, lack of heart and lack of effort. He represents everything the celtics are not, he's soft, invisible and someone no other team will overrate or pay any attention to besides the team that he is on. He will NEVER be a star player as he just doesn’t have the attitude like he cares. He seems like hes more content with just getting by and not having people bash him than actually play hard and help his team win.


Welcome to the forums, jowwwman. TP

While I don't think he is a Superstar player, he certainly could be a legit All Star. Bashing him doesn't help. Pro basketball is a business, and everybody should understand the trade is not going to be undone. Accept it.

Then, we all have opinions, and get frustrated by our players. I was a big TA fan, but he wanted more. Perk wanted more, and he got it in OKC.

The Celtics need to play better as a team, and that is on Doc. He's got to manage the rotation and stop messing with it.

Jeff Green will never be an All-Star. And whatever you write here about players doesn't help or hurt them or the team  whatsoever. It doesn't matter at all. Just people giving opinions. If you believe otherwise, you're taking yourself too seriously.

Green is a role-player combo-forward. Too timid as a player to ever become an All-Star. He's at his best as a shot-creator in the post versus smaller players. He can do some damage as a cutter even though he's not a natural mover on the court. He needs set plays to move around. Good defender and average rebounder (putrid if he's playing the 4 though). The largest improvement from him short-term should come from his spot-up jumper, which should be much more ranged and accurate. But that's it, he's a role-player, not even in the same planet of all-stars.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2011, 05:16:31 PM by Proveo »

Re: Should have Ibaka or Harden over Green
« Reply #72 on: April 24, 2011, 05:12:57 PM »

Offline Change

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Remember not long ago we were crying about not having a back-up for Paul Pierce. Well Danny Ainge went out and got one. I'm holding out hope for Green. Under Pierce & Ray's tutelage, he can become the player we think he can be.

Re: Should have Ibaka or Harden over Green
« Reply #73 on: April 24, 2011, 05:15:51 PM »

Offline bbd24

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Green has lots of untapped potential in my opinion. We're giving up on him a little too early give it some time. Personally i think a training camp will do great things for him sometimes it takes a while to adjust...like Richard Jefferson now compared to last year with the spurs.

Good comparison to Jefferson. Green hasn't had a training camp under his belt yet their crucifying him on this board. ' he'll never be an all star ' etc. It's laughable.

These are the same people that said Perk wouldn't be anything his first yrs as a Celtic . So it's all good

Re: Should have Ibaka or Harden over Green
« Reply #74 on: April 24, 2011, 05:18:34 PM »

Offline ACF

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Green has lots of untapped potential in my opinion. We're giving up on him a little too early give it some time. Personally i think a training camp will do great things for him sometimes it takes a while to adjust...like Richard Jefferson now compared to last year with the spurs.

Great points and I agree 100 %. I only wish I could TP you for those points and your screen name. Alas, karma. Will get back to you, though. Go Green!