Should have Ibaka or Harden over Green

[Celticsfan336]

Green is undoubtebly the most talented player other than westbrook and durant on their team. We lucked out getting him.

hahahhahaha. Why even bother arguing with statements like this?

Believe me, there's a reason why Jeff Green was expendable and Serge Ibaka wasn't.

Jeff Green has all of those intangible "wow" factors that don't really translate into actual production on the court: he's "versatile", he's "athletic", he has "potential", etc. etc.

Serge Ibaka isn't flashy, but on the other hand, he has everything that DOES translate into wins: great defense, great rebounding, great blocking, and relatively efficient offensive capability.

If we had gotten Perk instead of Jeff Green I actually wouldn't hate the trade. Instead, we got OKC's trash. It was most definitely addition by subtraction for them.

Don't just take my word for it:

http://dberri.wordpress.com/2011/04/12/the-thunder-are-now-contenders-does-kendrick-perkins-deserve-all-the-credit/

Your ignorant, he is undoubtely more talented than Ibaka. Ibaka is a great 4 dont get me wrong. But what the FUFCKFK do we need another 4 for??? exactly.

Jeff green is a matchup nightmare and can give paul and ray great rest which is exactly what he needed and why traded for him. Quisy wouldnt have been able to play, and who knows how effective he would ahve been. We would have been stuck with no wings. But nope, you want to trade for another big man.



Im sure u much rather would have traded Perk for Ibaka and then had Ibaka buried as our 3rd string 4 behing KG and BBD and then have no solid back up for paul and ray.

...If Green were "trash" why would OKC draft him 5th overall? Green, Ibaka, and Harden are very different players. Green is perfect for that glue guy. Ibaka is a great defensive player, and Harden is a great wing player--athletic scorer. Green fits our team better than the other two because of his versatility. He's not particularly great at one thing but he can do it all.  I don't really see a need for Ibaka on this team if you're goal was bench production. Also Harden is too small for the versatility we were looking for in the trade. We wanted a Posey type 2-3-4 guy. Not a straight 2.

Exactly

Jeff Green is a 6'9 swingman who can cover 2s, 3s, and even small 4s. He is a RARE talent. on both sides of the ball.

[Celticsfan336]

Gerald Wallace would be a disaster coming off the bench.

You guys think Jeff Green's jumper is broke...wait until you watch G. Wallace chuck up outside shot after outside shot.

Gerald Wallace off the bench is evil Tony Allen on steroids.

Wallace's current playoff numbers as a starter for the Blazers.

40 min: 10 ppg, 8 rpg, on 39% FG, 22% 3FG

I would not want Wallace off our bench. But that doesnt mean he isnt a perfect fit for the blazers. He is tony allen on steroids. Nothing wrong wit that, he is arguable the best on ball defender in the league. Wallace is right there too.

Wallace can eat up a defense with his penetration. Your observations on wallace are way off. he is giving 40 minutes of tenacious defense, scoring the rock, getting rebounds, exactly what they need

[shookones99]

I think a lot of people are missing the point of this trade.  To me, the goal of the trade was to get rid of Perkins.  Danny had his mind made up, likely at the start of the year, that this was the time to trade Perkins. 

 Reasons below:

1.  Perk's value was as high as it ever had been and likely as it ever was going to be.  Starting C on a championship team, "missing piece to the Celtcs taking down the Lakers in game 7 last year".   His stock had never been higher.  In a contract year for a player with all the limitations Perk has, the time to sell was now.

2. Perk was a huge liability on offense.  This, I think, was Danny' main motivation for moving Perk.  He thought it would be addition by subtraction on the offensive end by having JO or Shaq out there for Perk, with only a minor drop off on the defensive end.  At the start of the year Perk got exposed.  When he was hurt and Shaq was starting, our offense looked as fluid as ever. 

Those were Danny's two main reasons for trading Perk.  I think they were both fairly obvious to him long before the trading deadline came around. 

There were also a couple other minor positive outcomes from this deal that I'm sure Danny took note of.

1.  The impact on Rondo.  If Rajon were in a contract year this year I bet this trade doesn't happen.  Danny would never risk upsetting his star like that when he knows his star could just bolt at the end of the year.  But with Rajon locked up for the next 4 years, Danny saw this as an opportunity for growth for Rajon.  It would force to Rondo to deal with some adversity, which he has not had to do much of in his young career.

2. Jeff Green is a stud.  If Danny did have his mind made up that he was trading Perk, then it's hard to imagine him landing anyone, in terms of straight value, better than Green. 

3.  Perk's Injury.  After missing most of the year Perk came back and immediately sprained his other knee.  With a;l the injuries we've dealt with this year, we could not afford another injury prone big. 

4. Perk's contract.  Danny knew that Perk's value and stock way outweighed his actual talent and didn't want to pay him accordingly. 


Now a couple of reasons why my theory may be nonsense:

1.  If Danny had indeed decided to trade Perk at the start of the year he would have shopped him around for different players.  it's hard for me to imagine anyone giving up anything of higer value than Jeff Green for Perk, but from everything I've heard and read, it sounds like Danny did't shop Perk around all that much.

#1 reason why this trade could be disastorous:

Danny was relying on Shaq and JO being healthy.  If they were, then I would rather have either one of them on the court than Perk.  However, if they are not healthy then that is a serious miscalculation by Danny.  Perk is a far better replacement for either of those two than anyone else we have. 

So in conlusion I guess what Im trying to say is that this deal wasn't about aquiring Jeff Green nor was it about not having to sign Perk in the offseason.  What the trade was really about was getting better by not have Perk drag us down on offense and trading him at a time when his value was at it's highest.

[moiso]

Green is undoubtebly the most talented player other than westbrook and durant on their team. We lucked out getting him.

hahahhahaha. Why even bother arguing with statements like this?

Believe me, there's a reason why Jeff Green was expendable and Serge Ibaka wasn't.

Jeff Green has all of those intangible "wow" factors that don't really translate into actual production on the court: he's "versatile", he's "athletic", he has "potential", etc. etc.

Serge Ibaka isn't flashy, but on the other hand, he has everything that DOES translate into wins: great defense, great rebounding, great blocking, and relatively efficient offensive capability.

If we had gotten Perk instead of Jeff Green I actually wouldn't hate the trade. Instead, we got OKC's trash. It was most definitely addition by subtraction for them.

Don't just take my word for it:

http://dberri.wordpress.com/2011/04/12/the-thunder-are-now-contenders-does-kendrick-perkins-deserve-all-the-credit/

Your ignorant, he is undoubtely more talented than Ibaka. Ibaka is a great 4 dont get me wrong. But what the FUFCKFK do we need another 4 for??? exactly.

Jeff green is a matchup nightmare and can give paul and ray great rest which is exactly what he needed and why traded for him. Quisy wouldnt have been able to play, and who knows how effective he would ahve been. We would have been stuck with no wings. But nope, you want to trade for another big man.



Im sure u much rather would have traded Perk for Ibaka and then had Ibaka buried as our 3rd string 4 behing KG and BBD and then have no solid back up for paul and ray.

...If Green were "trash" why would OKC draft him 5th overall? Green, Ibaka, and Harden are very different players. Green is perfect for that glue guy. Ibaka is a great defensive player, and Harden is a great wing player--athletic scorer. Green fits our team better than the other two because of his versatility. He's not particularly great at one thing but he can do it all.  I don't really see a need for Ibaka on this team if you're goal was bench production. Also Harden is too small for the versatility we were looking for in the trade. We wanted a Posey type 2-3-4 guy. Not a straight 2.

Why was Kwame Brown taken #1?  Why was Darko Milicic taken #2?  Draft position doesn't mean anything after 4 years in the league.

[angryguy77]

Give the kid a chance. By this logic Rondo should have been cut after his first year. This blog has lost it's collective mind over the last two months.

 You guy's make Al Davis look patient.

 

[FLCeltsFan]

The Thunder wanted to trade Krstic and Green because they were the weak links in their lineup.  They knew the potential of Harden and Ibacka and weren't giving them up.  Presti is too smart.  He would have waited till summer and let both Green and Krstic walk and go after Perk as a free agent.   They got Mohammed in a separate trade and I don't see them desperate enough for a center to give up players other than the two they did. 

[greenpride32]

I think many are overlooking the business aspects of the game.  Perk was not going to sign with Boston; Green was not going to sign with OKC.  Looking back at trades in any sport a lot of times this is how players get matched up and that's how this deal really materialized.  In the case of the NBA sometimes you have to wiggle some pieces around for salary match.  Of course needs had to be filled on both sides and they were in this case.  Just look at the Melo deal; essentially the same thing on how it materialized.

OKC would never give up Ibaka for Perk as the main part of a deal.  Ibaka is the much better player and they already have him signed.  Green is also a better player but they don't need him and weren't going to sign him which makes him expendable.  The C's would not have taken Harden for Perk.

[KCattheStripe]

Give the kid a chance. By this logic Rondo should have been cut after his first year. This blog has lost it's collective mind over the last two months.

 You guy's make Al Davis look patient.

 

I'm fine with giving Green time and I think he'll be invaluable as a second defender on James. However, there's no way he's more talented than Ibaka.

[LarBrd33]

Jeff Green is a versatile player... mainly a scorer.  Right now how he fits in the offense is a little undefined, but his role is basically to back up Pierce.  The idea in bringing him in was that we wouldn't completely fall apart with Pierce out... that Jeff Green would be talented enough to get some buckets and minimize the bleeding.

Ibaka and Perk are players who don't need to score to be effective.  Westbrook and Durant cover all the scoring for that team... bringing in Perk solved their main issue (not having a big man) and also allowed Ibaka to shine.   Perk's impact isn't in numbers... averaging like 6 points and 4 rebounds with 1 block in his 3 playoff games.  But having him at center means Ibaka can play PF... and he's now averaging 12 points, 11 rebounds and 3 blocks in the 3 playoff games.  Perk and Ibaka compliment the Durant/WEstbrook offense.    

Jeff Green (theoretically) fortified our bench if Shaq were starting at center.

[Who]

I don't think Jeff Green is soft. I wouldn't consider him a tough guy either but somewhere around average. I mean for a small forward.

He has a physical offensive game down in that low block and he is by no means a finesse defender on the other end of the court. As time passes by, I expect Green's comfort + physicality + overall effectiveness defensively to continue to improve. I don't think he'll be a guy that out-muscles people but he's not some wimp that is going to back down when the going gets tough either. Just solid.

Now, that is at the small forward position. Not the power forward position. Green is a soft player at PF. When he is at a size disadvantage, he responds very poorly. Not enough fight in him. Doesn't make good enough use of the physical power that he has. Gives up on plays especially defensively + on the glass.

You want to call Green a soft PF, I am with you 100% ... but I think he is fine at SF. About average and I expect him to gradually improve over time. Be solid to good (physical/mental toughness) but not overly tough (say an instigator). 

[wdleehi]

Jeff Green is a more talented player then he has shown in Boston.




Unfortunately, he might be one of those guys that are a lot more productive starting then coming off the bench.  (think TA)

[KG Living Legend]

The Thunder wanted to trade Krstic and Green because they were the weak links in their lineup.  They knew the potential of Harden and Ibacka and weren't giving them up.  Presti is too smart.  He would have waited till summer and let both Green and Krstic walk and go after Perk as a free agent.   They got Mohammed in a separate trade and I don't see them desperate enough for a center to give up players other than the two they did. 

 Exactly the point. They really didn't need either one at all.

 And to get are Big bad Center, I just wish we had something that Presti actually wanted to keep.

[Roy H.]

The Thunder wanted to trade Krstic and Green because they were the weak links in their lineup.  They knew the potential of Harden and Ibacka and weren't giving them up.  Presti is too smart.  He would have waited till summer and let both Green and Krstic walk and go after Perk as a free agent.   They got Mohammed in a separate trade and I don't see them desperate enough for a center to give up players other than the two they did. 

Exactly right.

[BudweiserCeltic]

The Thunder wanted to trade Krstic and Green because they were the weak links in their lineup.  They knew the potential of Harden and Ibacka and weren't giving them up.  Presti is too smart.  He would have waited till summer and let both Green and Krstic walk and go after Perk as a free agent.   They got Mohammed in a separate trade and I don't see them desperate enough for a center to give up players other than the two they did. 

Exactly right.

The Nazr trade is irrelevant. They were thin in the position regardless of the Perk trade or not.

[aporel#18]

The Thunder wanted to trade Krstic and Green because they were the weak links in their lineup.  They knew the potential of Harden and Ibacka and weren't giving them up.  Presti is too smart.  He would have waited till summer and let both Green and Krstic walk and go after Perk as a free agent.   They got Mohammed in a separate trade and I don't see them desperate enough for a center to give up players other than the two they did. 

We wanted to trade Perk also... but I wouldn't have minded to trade Baby 

You're right, Presti is a smart GM, but then why did the Thunder start Nenad and Green over the more talented Ibaka and Harden? I think this trade will be good for both teams, because they got what they needed.

But in the end, and it's still to be seen, I bet Danny won the trade. Green will be fine against Miami, Bulls and Lakers, and Nenad will be a big bonus against the Bulls and the Lakers. Oh, and that Clipper's pick will be sweet in 2012.

Go Celtics!