Patriots 2011 Regular Season

[Rondo2287]

You really dont think that Gronk or Hernandez are as good as their fantasy value show?  Hernandez is a matchup nightmare for any team and Gronk is on pace to become one of the best TE's of all time with regards to catching the ball.  He is also instrumental in setting up the run get for BJGE

Yeah I don't think they're as amazing as many here rate them for three reasons.

1. They play with Tom Brady, which pumps up their stats
2. They play in NE's pass happy offense, again pumping up stats
3. NE only has 1 WR that's a big time threat (Welker). This has lead to using them as defacto WRs fairly often. When graded as WRs their stats become less "HoF pace" and more just good.

So do we have to tone down our enthusiasm about every player that has ever played with another good player?  Jerry Rice must have been pretty overrated playing out in SF right?

and I think discounting what they do because of the offense they play in is kinda foolish.  Do people discount what adrian peterson, frank gore, MJD, (and since Andre Johnson has been out) Arian foster have been doing because their teams have no passing game?

I guess I can get where you are coming from with hernandez because he is split out alot and isnt used as much on running plays, but Gronk has been in almost every down run or pass and has contributed to both.  

[wdleehi]

I think the Pats have not done a good job restocking certain positions.  

They have ignored pass rushing.


They have no big play WR to stretch the field for all those talented short pass guys.  

[Donoghus]

I think the Pats have not done a good job restocking certain positions.  

They have ignored pass rushing.


They have no big play WR to stretch the field for all those talented short pass guys.  

I agree with this.

[Rondo2287]

I think the Pats have not done a good job restocking certain positions.  

They have ignored pass rushing.


They have no big play WR to stretch the field for all those talented short pass guys.  

yup

[Fafnir]

You really dont think that Gronk or Hernandez are as good as their fantasy value show?  Hernandez is a matchup nightmare for any team and Gronk is on pace to become one of the best TE's of all time with regards to catching the ball.  He is also instrumental in setting up the run get for BJGE

Yeah I don't think they're as amazing as many here rate them for three reasons.

1. They play with Tom Brady, which pumps up their stats
2. They play in NE's pass happy offense, again pumping up stats
3. NE only has 1 WR that's a big time threat (Welker). This has lead to using them as defacto WRs fairly often. When graded as WRs their stats become less "HoF pace" and more just good.

So do we have to tone down our enthusiasm about every player that has ever played with another good player?  Jerry Rice must have been pretty overrated playing out in SF right?

You need to consider the situation a player is in, his role in his offense, and his supporting cast when you evaluate them. For example if you look at AP/MJD/Forte/etc numbers you have to factor in how good his offensive line is. This is the same for a running back, a passer, or a WR/TE.

If you don't consider how many touches, targets, or the system they play you miss an awful lot of what is really going on.

Aaron Herandez has looked like a Greg Olsen clone to me. (does he fumble a lot at really bad times?) A decent offensive player, but nothing to get excited about. Gronkowski is a different sort but while he's very good I don't think he alone is enough of a weapon constitute restocking the offense aroudn Brady.

[Donoghus]

More on the Haynesworth release from PFT:

What a waste of space.

Albert Haynesworth got into a sideline argument with defensive line coach Pepper Johnson during the team’s loss to the Giants, just two days before Haynesworth was released.

But that’s not why Haynesworth was released. It wasn’t about the contract either. Players argue with coaches plenty on the sideline. The ones that give effort and display their talents are kept around.

Haynesworth just stopped competing.

Greg. A. Bedard of the Boston Globe breaks down the tape from Sunday’s game, pointing to a ridiculous three-play sequence where Haynesworth essentially gave up.

On three consecutive plays, he was thrown to the ground with one arm, pancaked to the ground after he stopped moving his feet, and again thrown to the ground by a guard (David Diehl) that other Patriots regularly beat all day.

“On the ground three-straight times and didn’t seem at all to mind!” one personnel executive told Bedard. “Just stopped moving his feet on each play.”

Haynesworth’s last snap in a Patriots uniform was when he was easily pushed out of the way on Brandon Jacobs‘ touchdown.

Kyle Love already played ahead of Haynesworth. New England has youngsters Ron Brace and Brandon Deaderick coming off the PUP list, so they could afford the hit to their depth.

“Haynesworth needed to go, and sources said some Patriots players were grumbling about that, but coach Bill Belichick was already moving in that direction,” Bedard writes.

Belichick owed it to the rest of the Patriots to get rid of a guy who played like he didn’t give a [dang].

[Roy H.]

It's crazy how little production the Pats have gotten from Haynesworth and Ochocinco.  I thought both additions were no-brainers, and both have been terrible.

Is Haynesworth the poster child for the spoiled, lazy modern athlete?  He's the Mark Blount of the NFL.

[Fafnir]

It's crazy how little production the Pats have gotten from Haynesworth and Ochocinco.  I thought both additions were no-brainers, and both have been terrible.

Is Haynesworth the poster child for the spoiled, lazy modern athlete?  He's the Mark Blount of the NFL.

I'm shocked about Ochocinco more than Haynesworth. You'd think Brady would put some balls into his facemask and that'd give him a decent number of yards. But right now he can't even get on the field, despite looking physically pretty good to me when he is on the field.

[Donoghus]

Is Haynesworth the poster child for the spoiled, lazy modern athlete?  He's the Mark Blount of the NFL.

He & JaMarcus Russell.

[Fafnir]

Is Haynesworth the poster child for the spoiled, lazy modern athlete?  He's the Mark Blount of the NFL.

He & JaMarcus Russell.

No, Russell is more along the lines of a flame out lottery pick rather than Blount.

Blount did work hard to get the big deal (just like Haynesworth)

[Donoghus]

Is Haynesworth the poster child for the spoiled, lazy modern athlete?  He's the Mark Blount of the NFL.

He & JaMarcus Russell.

No, Russell is more along the lines of a flame out lottery pick rather than Blount.

Blount did work hard to get the big deal (just like Haynesworth)

True but look at the money that was thrown at Russell and then look at his production and work ethic.  He was the epitome of the "spoiled, lazy modern athlete".

He got to the NFL and quit once he got paid. At least Haynesworth and Blount put in a couple of good years at the pro level before cashing out.

[LB3533]

Albert Haynsworth is probably the worst of the worst.

If you can't play for Bill Belichick, who can you play for?

[Spilling Green Dye]

It's crazy how little production the Pats have gotten from Haynesworth and Ochocinco.  I thought both additions were no-brainers, and both have been terrible.

Is Haynesworth the poster child for the spoiled, lazy modern athlete?  He's the Mark Blount of the NFL.

I think Haynesworth was playing decent this season, and getting better.  I noticed that a number of the sacks other players got were a direct result of the pressure Haynesworth put on the other side.  And the supposed argument he got in with the line coach, who so far has shown to be an uncreative and bad defensive line coach, actually showed passion about his craft.

I don't think this cut will help the team.  Our defense is terrible, and cutting Haynesworth does not make it better.

[PosImpos]

It's crazy how little production the Pats have gotten from Haynesworth and Ochocinco.  I thought both additions were no-brainers, and both have been terrible.

Is Haynesworth the poster child for the spoiled, lazy modern athlete?  He's the Mark Blount of the NFL.

I think Haynesworth was playing decent this season, and getting better.  I noticed that a number of the sacks other players got were a direct result of the pressure Haynesworth put on the other side.  And the supposed argument he got in with the line coach, who so far has shown to be an uncreative and bad defensive line coach, actually showed passion about his craft.

I don't think this cut will help the team.  Our defense is terrible, and cutting Haynesworth does not make it better.

At least Bellichick is consistent; this, in my view, is a lot like cutting Leigh Bodden and Brandon Merriweather, trading Richard Seymour, and waiving Randy Moss.  Even if a player is still theoretically productive, Bellichick isn't afraid to let them go if they aren't buying in or fitting in the way he wants them to.  The thinking, I guess, is that even if cutting a player lessens the overall talent on the team, it's an overall win because it maintains the "Patriot Way."

Meh.  This season is reminding me a lot of 2009.  Flawed team that lacked leadership and mental fortitude.

[Neurotic Guy]

Is it just me, or do others think that the defense made significant progress last week.  Frankly, had Chung intercepted the pass in the final drive (looked catchable from what I saw, but I didn't see a replay), we'd be talking about how well the D played.  But... the D blew it after a pretty well-played game. 

Bottom line is that I can't give up on this team quite yet. I thought I saw the semblance of a pass rush in this game and if the offense played to its capability, the Pats would have won.

The next 3 weeks will tell the story. 

Bye-Bye Albert.