Who else thinks we made out like bandits in the Perkins trade? I know I do.

[CoachBo]

And Green's not able to walk, absent a pass on a qualifying offer that won't happen, until 2012.

You certainly cannot evaluate a trade after seven games, when so many of your pieces have been injured. As I anticipated, the contributions of the two players have indeed been amplified by the Celtic system, and by stepping away from Scott Brooks' rather rudimentary x and o approach to the game.

And, I know the trade was a blow to those fans who loved Perkins, and those who have convinced themselves that the Celtics are something besides the business that they clearly are, so acceptance is going to be grudging and long-term, if at all.

We'll see what happens in the playoffs. And down the road.

[billysan]

And Green's not able to walk, absent a pass on a qualifying offer that won't happen, until 2012.

You certainly cannot evaluate a trade after seven games, when so many of your pieces have been injured. As I anticipated, the contributions of the two players have indeed been amplified by the Celtic system, and by stepping away from Scott Brooks' rather rudimentary x and o approach to the game.

And, I know the trade was a blow to those fans who loved Perkins, and those who have convinced themselves that the Celtics are something besides the business that they clearly are, so acceptance is going to be grudging and long-term, if at all.

We'll see what happens in the playoffs. And down the road.

Well said CoachBo.


I also have to point out that many are still comparing Perk to Krstic game by game here when if they were honest Perk wouldnt even be on the floor. We cant keep looking back at Perk, and blaming every loss on his trade when he hasnt been and likely wouldnt be healthy enough to help us this year. 

Again, Danny traded Perk, Nate, Daniels and Semih who are all out for the season and would not be any help whatsoever to winning this year for two productive guys (and picks)that are able to log major minutes and make a contribution now. The guys we picked up off the waiver wire are all questionable still but as someone else said, they may not see the floor come playoff time.

The real key to success this season is getting Davis and either Shaq or JO back and able to log some decent backup minutes. Delonte has become less of a factor with the play of Arroyo but I still would love to see him healthy.

I believe that we may be in a little slump now that will soon turn around and have us peaking going into the playoffs. If the team propaganda about Delonte, Shaq and JO coming back is accurate then the timing will be perfect and the mini camp for our additions will be over as well.






 

[mobilija]

To me, I don't care about free agency or training camp. The championship is all that matters. If we win then yes, it was a successful trade. If we lose due to less defense, less rebounding, or cohesion issues, then the trade wasn't a success.
[/quote] .....supposed to be from Roy....

What if we lose in the finals this year, but win it next year with Green and/or Kristic playing a huge role in our success? Or maybe a new younger core allows us to attract the big free agent?

Don't be short sighted, this trade has greater implications past just this year.

[JBcat]

To me, I don't care about free agency or training camp. The championship is all that matters. If we win then yes, it was a successful trade. If we lose due to less defense, less rebounding, or cohesion issues, then the trade wasn't a success.

.....supposed to be from Roy....

What if we lose in the finals this year, but win it next year with Green and/or Kristic playing a huge role in our success? Or maybe a new younger core allows us to attract the big free agent?

Don't be short sighted, this trade has greater implications past just this year.
[/quote]

Just want to point out as well is say in an alternate universe the trade wasn't made, Perk isn't the same the rest of the year, and we still lose and not win the championship.   What would be better for this team going forward not winning the championship with no trade or with the trade?  I say with the trade. 

Also something that maybe isn't talked about enough is having Green as a quick 4 Posey style that worked so well in 08 or maybe more importantly someone to back up Pierce so he doesn't get burnt out in a 7 game series guarding possibly, Lebron, Carmelo, even Deng, and possibly in the finals Kobe or Artest.   Daniels was very solid for us this year and I'm not sure any smaller talked about trades for another 3 would have been enough. 

[mgent]

And Green's not able to walk, absent a pass on a qualifying offer that won't happen, until 2012.

You certainly cannot evaluate a trade after seven games, when so many of your pieces have been injured. As I anticipated, the contributions of the two players have indeed been amplified by the Celtic system, and by stepping away from Scott Brooks' rather rudimentary x and o approach to the game.

And, I know the trade was a blow to those fans who loved Perkins, and those who have convinced themselves that the Celtics are something besides the business that they clearly are, so acceptance is going to be grudging and long-term, if at all.

We'll see what happens in the playoffs. And down the road.

Green is a restricted agent no? he could definitely be gone next year.  He could make twice the QO starting for another team.

After 7 games I'm obviously not ready to make a decision, but I can say I'm not overly impressed.  Aside from that one game Green hasn't looked completely comfortable.  He hasn't been the 6th man/closer that we've been hoping for (and that has been without Baby stealing shots from him).

As for Krstic, he doesn't command the attention Shaq does on offense making things harder for the other 4 (like Perk) but unlike Perk he's a liability on the boards (last thing our team needs) and he's a pretty huge step down defensively.  At least Shaq and Perk could have covered each other's backs depending on what we needed in the lineup.  Krstic is more like the worst of both worlds.

Bottom line, take the last game for instance where Krstic and Green lead the team in scoring (their main draw) yet they couldn't lead the team to victory.  Perk was the type of player that could completely alter the game without scoring a point.  

Was a scoring punch really what we needed when chances are if the Big 3/4 are having a bad scoring night, the game is gonna be a loss?

[incoherent]

Green is a restricted agent no? he could definitely be gone next year.  He could make twice the QO starting for another team.

After 7 games I'm obviously not ready to make a decision, but I can say I'm not overly impressed.  Aside from that one game Green hasn't looked completely comfortable.  He hasn't been the 6th man/closer that we've been hoping for (and that has been without Baby stealing shots from him).

As for Krstic, he doesn't command the attention Shaq does on offense making things harder for the other 4 (like Perk) but unlike Perk he's a liability on the boards (last thing our team needs) and he's a pretty huge step down defensively.  At least Shaq and Perk could have covered each other's backs depending on what we needed in the lineup.  Krstic is more like the worst of both worlds.

Bottom line, take the last game for instance where Krstic and Green lead the team in scoring (their main draw) yet they couldn't lead the team to victory.  Perk was the type of player that could completely alter the game without scoring a point. 

Was a scoring punch really what we needed when chances are if the Big 3/4 are having a bad scoring night, the game is gonna be a loss?

If you are going to be quoting games recently played then it's fair to mention that if we had Perk he would not even be in the game.

You can't really fault these guys for scoring points. They aren't suppose to lead the team to victory, that's the big 4's job.  And it was something the big 4 did not do against Philly. We also held Philly to under 90 points, so I don't think we needed more defense. We needed more offense.

[barefacedmonk]

edit

[Roy H.]

To me, I don't care about free agency or training camp. The championship is all that matters. If we win then yes, it was a successful trade. If we lose due to less defense, less rebounding, or cohesion issues, then the trade wasn't a success.

.....supposed to be from Roy....

What if we lose in the finals this year, but win it next year with Green and/or Kristic playing a huge role in our success? Or maybe a new younger core allows us to attract the big free agent?

Don't be short sighted, this trade has greater implications past just this year.

Sure, the trade has long term implications.  However, success in this league is measured in championships.  It's extraordinarily hard to win a title in this league, which is why only a handful of franchises have done it in the past 30 years.  I'm a believer that when a team is very close to a title (as we are now), the goal is to maximize title chances, rather than to plan for the future.

That's not to say that Krstic + Green aren't the combo that maximize our title chances.  They may be, and we'll know that in the playoffs.  However, if we're having issues with our defense + rebounding + cohesion -- while at the same time Perk is providing good rebounding and defense for OKC -- I'll look back at the trade and consider it a failure.

[Tai]

To me, I don't care about free agency or training camp. The championship is all that matters. If we win then yes, it was a successful trade. If we lose due to less defense, less rebounding, or cohesion issues, then the trade wasn't a success.

.....supposed to be from Roy....

What if we lose in the finals this year, but win it next year with Green and/or Kristic playing a huge role in our success? Or maybe a new younger core allows us to attract the big free agent?

Don't be short sighted, this trade has greater implications past just this year.

Sure, the trade has long term implications.  However, success in this league is measured in championships.  It's extraordinarily hard to win a title in this league, which is why only a handful of franchises have done it in the past 30 years.  I'm a believer that when a team is very close to a title (as we are now), the goal is to maximize title chances, rather than to plan for the future.

That's not to say that Krstic + Green aren't the combo that maximize our title chances.  They may be, and we'll know that in the playoffs.  However, if we're having issues with our defense + rebounding + cohesion -- while at the same time Perk is providing good rebounding and defense for OKC -- I'll look back at the trade and consider it a failure.

I guess we're in agreement as far as whether we win a title or not determining whether the trade was really a good idea.

I do wanna say I worry less about Krstic being injured than I do Perkins.

[Roy H.]

We cant keep looking back at Perk, and blaming every loss on his trade when he hasnt been and likely wouldnt be healthy enough to help us this year. 

Again, Danny traded Perk, Nate, Daniels and Semih who are all out for the season and would not be any help whatsoever to winning this year for two productive guys (and picks)that are able to log major minutes and make a contribution now.

Whoa there...  are you reading information that nobody else is?  Who said Perk is out for the season, or is unlikely to be a contributor this year?  That could be the case, I guess, but reports are that Perk will be back very soon.  Assuming that he contributes at a rate similar to that which he showed in his 12 games back, there's no reason to assume that he won't be able to be a solid contributor.

[chambers]

We cant keep looking back at Perk, and blaming every loss on his trade when he hasnt been and likely wouldnt be healthy enough to help us this year. 

Again, Danny traded Perk, Nate, Daniels and Semih who are all out for the season and would not be any help whatsoever to winning this year for two productive guys (and picks)that are able to log major minutes and make a contribution now.

Whoa there...  are you reading information that nobody else is?  Who said Perk is out for the season, or is unlikely to be a contributor this year?  That could be the case, I guess, but reports are that Perk will be back very soon.  Assuming that he contributes at a rate similar to that which he showed in his 12 games back, there's no reason to assume that he won't be able to be a solid contributor.

I think he's also implying that he was simply not the old perk we know (athletically) and was probably not going to get that way this year or who knows- forever for that matter.
I would take krstic and green contributions over the last 7 games than perks contributions over the 12 games he was back- particularly considering these guys have no idea about their new teams offense or defensive sets than a few walk throughs.

[billysan]

We cant keep looking back at Perk, and blaming every loss on his trade when he hasnt been and likely wouldnt be healthy enough to help us this year.  

Again, Danny traded Perk, Nate, Daniels and Semih who are all out for the season and would not be any help whatsoever to winning this year for two productive guys (and picks)that are able to log major minutes and make a contribution now.

Whoa there...  are you reading information that nobody else is?  Who said Perk is out for the season, or is unlikely to be a contributor this year?  That could be the case, I guess, but reports are that Perk will be back very soon.  Assuming that he contributes at a rate similar to that which he showed in his 12 games back, there's no reason to assume that he won't be able to be a solid contributor.

I think he's also implying that he was simply not the old perk we know (athletically) and was probably not going to get that way this year or who knows- forever for that matter.
I would take krstic and green contributions over the last 7 games than perks contributions over the 12 games he was back- particularly considering these guys have no idea about their new teams offense or defensive sets than a few walk throughs.

Until I see Perk back on the floor, he is out. If he comes back and helps OKC significantly in the playoffs this year then I will eat my words. I just dont see it happening until next season, if ever.

We won a bunch of games with him out. It didnt matter if it was Shaq, JO, Baby or Erden on the floor. We still won without Perk. I am not hating on Perk and I probably could have worded those statements differently but the point remains. I dont see the big contribution difference when he came back.

I do feel like he was playing fairly well and was probably not at 100% before he was hurt again. Wether he makes it back to his previous full speed and when that will happen is still up in the air.

In light of his second injury he was not going to make a big contribution going forward even if he played hurt. He may have even been a liability. Just my opinion.

[gar]

Delonte is a key that everyone is not talking about. Arroyo will not be able to back up Rondo against some teams and at SG and on defense he is far more effective than any other options. You can pair him with Arroyo or you can run him at the point, either way he makes that second unit far better.

[wdleehi]

The key to the success of this trade has nothing to do with the players the Celtics received in the trade.




The key to the success is if the Oneals return. 




Yes, I would probably rescind the trade now. 


Yes, the Celtics would have been short handed at the C position until they signed another big man, but Perk would have returned.  And then, there would be three big C that the Celtics could have healthy (or at least one of three) in the playoffs.  Right now, the there are only 2 with the hope that one of them will be healthy.


Green is a very good SF.  Starting level on a contender.   



But this trade will not be judged on how he played.  It will be judged based on winning, which is depended on guys that were not part of the trade covering the hole created by the trade. 

[Chris]

 And then, there would be three big C that the Celtics could have healthy (or at least one of three) in the playoffs.  Right now, the there are only 2 with the hope that one of them will be healthy.

I'm confused by this.  Are you not counting Krstic?  I know he isn't Perkins, but he has proven to be a very solid NBA center, and has been getting better defensively by the game.  I think he needs to be a big part of the equation.