Would you trade Rondo for Griffin straight up?

[BballTim]

Rondo is putting up stats similar to Kidd and Nash, two future HOFers.

Griffin, in his rookie season, is putting up stats similar to Duncan and Shaq, two of the most dominant players ever.

Rondo already has a ring, but the other two PG's don't.

The bigs have 6 Finals MVP's between them.

  Has Shaq ever been on a team with a losing record? I wouldn't rush to put Griffin in that class. Maybe after he leads teams to 3-4 titles, not while he's putting up big numbers on a losing team.

I didn't say Grifin can impact a game like Shaq or Duncan. He is putting up the same (or better) rookie numbers though.

My point being that he appears to be a special talent, as only a handful of players had similar rookie seasons (Duncan, Shaq, and Robinson in the last 25 years).

The Magic won 41 games Shaq's rookie season. The Clips can still finish .500 the way they have been currently playing.

Like I said, those guys win Finals MVP's. The Nash's and Kidd's and Stockton's and Kevin Johnson's make All-Star games and the playoffs. And Rondo is closer to them than Magic Johnson.

Bottom line: I'd take a dominant PF over a dominant PG.

But again, this C's team would basically have to be blown up if they made a Griffin for Rondo swap. For that reason alone I say NO.

  Yes, guys that Griffin can't impact the game like win finals mvps. But it's not the case that only centers and pfs win finals mvps. In fact you can look at it from the opposite view. Only 5 pf/c types have won finals mvps in the last 30 years. Shaq, Duncan, Hakeem, Kareem and Moses. Some of them won multiple mvps, but you seem to be unlikely to win the finals mvp as a big unless you're aruably top 5 or so all time at your spot. Look at the guards that have won in that time: Billups, Parker, Magic, Isaiah, Dumars, Wade, Kobe, MJ. Not only have the guards won more mvps than the pf/c types (16-10) but guards that are good but not great (such as Billups, Parker and Dumars) have been able to wim mvps.

  Rondo might be closer to Stockton, Nash and Kidd than to Magic, just like Griffin is no Shaq. But How does Rondo stack up to Billups, Parker and Dumars? I don't know that you can really make a case that Griffin is tremendously more likely than Rondo to win a finals mvp.

I've noticed the trend that guards are getting the Finals MVP's. But that 16-10 number includes Jordan, which really shouldn't count lol. If Jordan, the GOAT, wasn't playing, guys like Hakeem, Ewing, Malone would have taken those awards. And other guys, like Parker, are not the best players on their championship teams, they simply got hot in the final week.

I would not be surprised in the lease bit if Rondo got the Finals MVP this year (or last). But if you look at the Conference champs over just the last few seasons, they all have one thing in common (sans Cleveland), a dominant big (KG, Gasol, Howard, Duncan, Shaq, Ben+'Sheed, and so on).

I wouldn't rule out Griffin dominating the League like Shaq did. MVP's are definitely in his future, and depending on the right players around him (unlikely in LA lol), the Finals MVP's can follow.

  Excuses, excuses.

[GreenEnvy]

Rondo is putting up stats similar to Kidd and Nash, two future HOFers.

Griffin, in his rookie season, is putting up stats similar to Duncan and Shaq, two of the most dominant players ever.

Rondo already has a ring, but the other two PG's don't.

The bigs have 6 Finals MVP's between them.

  Has Shaq ever been on a team with a losing record? I wouldn't rush to put Griffin in that class. Maybe after he leads teams to 3-4 titles, not while he's putting up big numbers on a losing team.

I didn't say Grifin can impact a game like Shaq or Duncan. He is putting up the same (or better) rookie numbers though.

My point being that he appears to be a special talent, as only a handful of players had similar rookie seasons (Duncan, Shaq, and Robinson in the last 25 years).

The Magic won 41 games Shaq's rookie season. The Clips can still finish .500 the way they have been currently playing.

Like I said, those guys win Finals MVP's. The Nash's and Kidd's and Stockton's and Kevin Johnson's make All-Star games and the playoffs. And Rondo is closer to them than Magic Johnson.

Bottom line: I'd take a dominant PF over a dominant PG.

But again, this C's team would basically have to be blown up if they made a Griffin for Rondo swap. For that reason alone I say NO.

  Yes, guys that Griffin can't impact the game like win finals mvps. But it's not the case that only centers and pfs win finals mvps. In fact you can look at it from the opposite view. Only 5 pf/c types have won finals mvps in the last 30 years. Shaq, Duncan, Hakeem, Kareem and Moses. Some of them won multiple mvps, but you seem to be unlikely to win the finals mvp as a big unless you're aruably top 5 or so all time at your spot. Look at the guards that have won in that time: Billups, Parker, Magic, Isaiah, Dumars, Wade, Kobe, MJ. Not only have the guards won more mvps than the pf/c types (16-10) but guards that are good but not great (such as Billups, Parker and Dumars) have been able to wim mvps.

  Rondo might be closer to Stockton, Nash and Kidd than to Magic, just like Griffin is no Shaq. But How does Rondo stack up to Billups, Parker and Dumars? I don't know that you can really make a case that Griffin is tremendously more likely than Rondo to win a finals mvp.

I've noticed the trend that guards are getting the Finals MVP's. But that 16-10 number includes Jordan, which really shouldn't count lol. If Jordan, the GOAT, wasn't playing, guys like Hakeem, Ewing, Malone would have taken those awards. And other guys, like Parker, are not the best players on their championship teams, they simply got hot in the final week.

I would not be surprised in the lease bit if Rondo got the Finals MVP this year (or last). But if you look at the Conference champs over just the last few seasons, they all have one thing in common (sans Cleveland), a dominant big (KG, Gasol, Howard, Duncan, Shaq, Ben+'Sheed, and so on).

I wouldn't rule out Griffin dominating the League like Shaq did. MVP's are definitely in his future, and depending on the right players around him (unlikely in LA lol), the Finals MVP's can follow.

  Excuses, excuses.

Who would you build your team around, a potentially dominant PG or a potentially dominant PF/C?

[gpap]

Yes, I would make this move in faster than a heartbeat.
As another fan mentioned, Blake is a franchise player and Rondo is not.

Just the thought of KG and Blake Griffin in the front court is bringing a smile to my face

[Greenbean]

If you could guarantee me that Griffin would hold up and not shatter something in his body with his style of play then...maybe

How about Griffin for Big Baby?

[fairweatherfan]

How about Griffin for Big Baby?

I'm so sick of these ridiculous lopsided trade ideas.

You'd obviously have to throw in Bradley, Gody, and a first   

[Greenbean]

How about Griffin for Big Baby?

I'm so sick of these ridiculous lopsided trade ideas.

You'd obviously have to throw in Bradley, Gody, and a first   

The big smiley face means Im kidding!

[BballTim]

Rondo is putting up stats similar to Kidd and Nash, two future HOFers.

Griffin, in his rookie season, is putting up stats similar to Duncan and Shaq, two of the most dominant players ever.

Rondo already has a ring, but the other two PG's don't.

The bigs have 6 Finals MVP's between them.

  Has Shaq ever been on a team with a losing record? I wouldn't rush to put Griffin in that class. Maybe after he leads teams to 3-4 titles, not while he's putting up big numbers on a losing team.

I didn't say Grifin can impact a game like Shaq or Duncan. He is putting up the same (or better) rookie numbers though.

My point being that he appears to be a special talent, as only a handful of players had similar rookie seasons (Duncan, Shaq, and Robinson in the last 25 years).

The Magic won 41 games Shaq's rookie season. The Clips can still finish .500 the way they have been currently playing.

Like I said, those guys win Finals MVP's. The Nash's and Kidd's and Stockton's and Kevin Johnson's make All-Star games and the playoffs. And Rondo is closer to them than Magic Johnson.

Bottom line: I'd take a dominant PF over a dominant PG.

But again, this C's team would basically have to be blown up if they made a Griffin for Rondo swap. For that reason alone I say NO.

  Yes, guys that Griffin can't impact the game like win finals mvps. But it's not the case that only centers and pfs win finals mvps. In fact you can look at it from the opposite view. Only 5 pf/c types have won finals mvps in the last 30 years. Shaq, Duncan, Hakeem, Kareem and Moses. Some of them won multiple mvps, but you seem to be unlikely to win the finals mvp as a big unless you're aruably top 5 or so all time at your spot. Look at the guards that have won in that time: Billups, Parker, Magic, Isaiah, Dumars, Wade, Kobe, MJ. Not only have the guards won more mvps than the pf/c types (16-10) but guards that are good but not great (such as Billups, Parker and Dumars) have been able to wim mvps.

  Rondo might be closer to Stockton, Nash and Kidd than to Magic, just like Griffin is no Shaq. But How does Rondo stack up to Billups, Parker and Dumars? I don't know that you can really make a case that Griffin is tremendously more likely than Rondo to win a finals mvp.

I've noticed the trend that guards are getting the Finals MVP's. But that 16-10 number includes Jordan, which really shouldn't count lol. If Jordan, the GOAT, wasn't playing, guys like Hakeem, Ewing, Malone would have taken those awards. And other guys, like Parker, are not the best players on their championship teams, they simply got hot in the final week.

I would not be surprised in the lease bit if Rondo got the Finals MVP this year (or last). But if you look at the Conference champs over just the last few seasons, they all have one thing in common (sans Cleveland), a dominant big (KG, Gasol, Howard, Duncan, Shaq, Ben+'Sheed, and so on).

I wouldn't rule out Griffin dominating the League like Shaq did. MVP's are definitely in his future, and depending on the right players around him (unlikely in LA lol), the Finals MVP's can follow.

  Excuses, excuses.

Who would you build your team around, a potentially dominant PG or a potentially dominant PF/C?

  Haha. Probably the big. But don't overlook the use of the word "potentially". There's no guarantee that a team built around Griffin will ever have a better chance of winning a title than the Celts will the next year or two with Rondo.

[fairweatherfan]

How about Griffin for Big Baby?

I'm so sick of these ridiculous lopsided trade ideas.

You'd obviously have to throw in Bradley, Gody, and a first   

The big smiley face means Im kidding!

The tongue means so am I.   

[Vermont Green]

This thread is based on such a hypothetical concept that it is hard to comment.  There is no doubt that any team, if given the chance to add either Rondo or Griffin to their team would add Griffin.  But to speculate on a trade is complicated.  If it was me, I would trade Rondo for Griffin as I think we can contend with Delonte at the point but Delonte is injured.  We probably can't compete for a title with Nate or Avery so we would be a little hand-cuffed.

I have two concerns with Griffin, the obvious one is injury but when I see him jump, I can't help but wonder about PED's.  He actually looks unnaturally athletic.

[bdm860]

Rondo is putting up stats similar to Kidd and Nash, two future HOFers.

Griffin, in his rookie season, is putting up stats similar to Duncan and Shaq, two of the most dominant players ever.

Rondo already has a ring, but the other two PG's don't.

The bigs have 6 Finals MVP's between them.

  Has Shaq ever been on a team with a losing record? I wouldn't rush to put Griffin in that class. Maybe after he leads teams to 3-4 titles, not while he's putting up big numbers on a losing team.

I didn't say Grifin can impact a game like Shaq or Duncan. He is putting up the same (or better) rookie numbers though.

My point being that he appears to be a special talent, as only a handful of players had similar rookie seasons (Duncan, Shaq, and Robinson in the last 25 years).

The Magic won 41 games Shaq's rookie season. The Clips can still finish .500 the way they have been currently playing.

Like I said, those guys win Finals MVP's. The Nash's and Kidd's and Stockton's and Kevin Johnson's make All-Star games and the playoffs. And Rondo is closer to them than Magic Johnson.

Bottom line: I'd take a dominant PF over a dominant PG.

But again, this C's team would basically have to be blown up if they made a Griffin for Rondo swap. For that reason alone I say NO.

  Yes, guys that Griffin can't impact the game like win finals mvps. But it's not the case that only centers and pfs win finals mvps. In fact you can look at it from the opposite view. Only 5 pf/c types have won finals mvps in the last 30 years. Shaq, Duncan, Hakeem, Kareem and Moses. Some of them won multiple mvps, but you seem to be unlikely to win the finals mvp as a big unless you're aruably top 5 or so all time at your spot. Look at the guards that have won in that time: Billups, Parker, Magic, Isaiah, Dumars, Wade, Kobe, MJ. Not only have the guards won more mvps than the pf/c types (16-10) but guards that are good but not great (such as Billups, Parker and Dumars) have been able to wim mvps.

  Rondo might be closer to Stockton, Nash and Kidd than to Magic, just like Griffin is no Shaq. But How does Rondo stack up to Billups, Parker and Dumars? I don't know that you can really make a case that Griffin is tremendously more likely than Rondo to win a finals mvp.

I've noticed the trend that guards are getting the Finals MVP's. But that 16-10 number includes Jordan, which really shouldn't count lol. If Jordan, the GOAT, wasn't playing, guys like Hakeem, Ewing, Malone would have taken those awards. And other guys, like Parker, are not the best players on their championship teams, they simply got hot in the final week.

I would not be surprised in the lease bit if Rondo got the Finals MVP this year (or last). But if you look at the Conference champs over just the last few seasons, they all have one thing in common (sans Cleveland), a dominant big (KG, Gasol, Howard, Duncan, Shaq, Ben+'Sheed, and so on).

I wouldn't rule out Griffin dominating the League like Shaq did. MVP's are definitely in his future, and depending on the right players around him (unlikely in LA lol), the Finals MVP's can follow.

You say that about the bigs, but can't you say the exact same thing about guards?  Look at all the conference champs, they all have dominate guards in common too:

Rondo, Kobe, Wade, Mo Williams, Parker/Ginobili, Billups/Rip, etc.

(If you're considering one dimensional Ben Wallace and Sheed and Gasol as "dominate" then I have no problem considering all those guards I mentioned as "dominate."  But I would say I'm using the word "dominate" to mean All-Star.)

[Moranis]

Compared to an average-level player at the same position, a great PG can improve a team more than a great PF because a PG is in better position to elevate the play of average talent around them at the other positions.

In other words...

I'd rather have a great PG and an average PF than a great PF that depends on an average PG to get him the ball.

Keep Rondo.

and yet NBA champions almost across the board have mediocre PG's (Magic, Zeke, and long ago Cousy are the exceptions not the rule).  PG is by far the most overrated position in the history of the NBA.

[bdm860]

Rondo is putting up stats similar to Kidd and Nash, two future HOFers.

Griffin, in his rookie season, is putting up stats similar to Duncan and Shaq, two of the most dominant players ever.

Rondo already has a ring, but the other two PG's don't.

The bigs have 6 Finals MVP's between them.

  Has Shaq ever been on a team with a losing record? I wouldn't rush to put Griffin in that class. Maybe after he leads teams to 3-4 titles, not while he's putting up big numbers on a losing team.

I didn't say Grifin can impact a game like Shaq or Duncan. He is putting up the same (or better) rookie numbers though.

My point being that he appears to be a special talent, as only a handful of players had similar rookie seasons (Duncan, Shaq, and Robinson in the last 25 years).

The Magic won 41 games Shaq's rookie season. The Clips can still finish .500 the way they have been currently playing.

Like I said, those guys win Finals MVP's. The Nash's and Kidd's and Stockton's and Kevin Johnson's make All-Star games and the playoffs. And Rondo is closer to them than Magic Johnson.

Bottom line: I'd take a dominant PF over a dominant PG.

But again, this C's team would basically have to be blown up if they made a Griffin for Rondo swap. For that reason alone I say NO.

  Yes, guys that Griffin can't impact the game like win finals mvps. But it's not the case that only centers and pfs win finals mvps. In fact you can look at it from the opposite view. Only 5 pf/c types have won finals mvps in the last 30 years. Shaq, Duncan, Hakeem, Kareem and Moses. Some of them won multiple mvps, but you seem to be unlikely to win the finals mvp as a big unless you're aruably top 5 or so all time at your spot. Look at the guards that have won in that time: Billups, Parker, Magic, Isaiah, Dumars, Wade, Kobe, MJ. Not only have the guards won more mvps than the pf/c types (16-10) but guards that are good but not great (such as Billups, Parker and Dumars) have been able to wim mvps.

  Rondo might be closer to Stockton, Nash and Kidd than to Magic, just like Griffin is no Shaq. But How does Rondo stack up to Billups, Parker and Dumars? I don't know that you can really make a case that Griffin is tremendously more likely than Rondo to win a finals mvp.

I've noticed the trend that guards are getting the Finals MVP's. But that 16-10 number includes Jordan, which really shouldn't count lol. If Jordan, the GOAT, wasn't playing, guys like Hakeem, Ewing, Malone would have taken those awards. And other guys, like Parker, are not the best players on their championship teams, they simply got hot in the final week.

I would not be surprised in the lease bit if Rondo got the Finals MVP this year (or last). But if you look at the Conference champs over just the last few seasons, they all have one thing in common (sans Cleveland), a dominant big (KG, Gasol, Howard, Duncan, Shaq, Ben+'Sheed, and so on).

I wouldn't rule out Griffin dominating the League like Shaq did. MVP's are definitely in his future, and depending on the right players around him (unlikely in LA lol), the Finals MVP's can follow.

  Excuses, excuses.

Who would you build your team around, a potentially dominant PG or a potentially dominant PF/C?

I think the word "dominant" is getting thrown around a little loosely.   

People mentioned numbers before, watch out with that, cuz Kevin Love is putting up these "dominant" numbers too, and Elton Brand put up similar numbers when he first came in the league.

I'd rather build around guys like Rondo, Kidd, Nash, Rose, etc. than I would build around guys like Elton Brand, Zack Randolph, Jermaine O'Neal, Amare Stoudemire etc. in their primes.  Of course I'd rather build around Duncan, Garnett, or Webber than Iverson or Marbury in their primes.  Each player is different, it's hard to generalize a position, especially with dominat being thrown around.

Think of it this way:
'90's Sonics: would you rather build around Kemp or Payton (I'd taken Payton).

'90's Jazz: would you rather build around Malone or Stockton (I'd take Stockton).

'00's Lakers: would you rather build around Shaq or Kobe (I'd take Shaq).

'06 Heat: would you rather build around Shaq or Wade (I'd take Wade).

Sometimes I'd rather build around the guard, sometimes I'd rather build around the big guy.

[bdm860]

Compared to an average-level player at the same position, a great PG can improve a team more than a great PF because a PG is in better position to elevate the play of average talent around them at the other positions.

In other words...

I'd rather have a great PG and an average PF than a great PF that depends on an average PG to get him the ball.

Keep Rondo.

and yet NBA champions almost across the board have mediocre PG's (Magic, Zeke, and long ago Cousy are the exceptions not the rule).  PG is by far the most overrated position in the history of the NBA.

And the great Power Forwards of these NBA Champions?
I'm looking at the Lakers, Heat, Bulls, Rockets, seeing a lot of not so dominate power forwards. 

Be careful about comparing one position like PG to multiple positions like PF and C.  I think when you break it down strictly by position, or by all guards vs all bigs (not just pg vs pf and c), it looks a lot more even.

[Mogreen17]

This thread is based on such a hypothetical concept that it is hard to comment.  There is no doubt that any team, if given the chance to add either Rondo or Griffin to their team would add Griffin.  But to speculate on a trade is complicated.  If it was me, I would trade Rondo for Griffin as I think we can contend with Delonte at the point but Delonte is injured.  We probably can't compete for a title with Nate or Avery so we would be a little hand-cuffed.

I have two concerns with Griffin, the obvious one is injury but when I see him jump, I can't help but wonder about PED's.  He actually looks unnaturally athletic.

PED? I tried googling it and only came up with Program for Evolutionary Dynamics which I doubt is what you're referring to.


Sorry for the tedious question

[Moranis]

Compared to an average-level player at the same position, a great PG can improve a team more than a great PF because a PG is in better position to elevate the play of average talent around them at the other positions.

In other words...

I'd rather have a great PG and an average PF than a great PF that depends on an average PG to get him the ball.

Keep Rondo.

and yet NBA champions almost across the board have mediocre PG's (Magic, Zeke, and long ago Cousy are the exceptions not the rule).  PG is by far the most overrated position in the history of the NBA.

And the great Power Forwards of these NBA Champions?
I'm looking at the Lakers, Heat, Bulls, Rockets, seeing a lot of not so dominate power forwards. 

Be careful about comparing one position like PG to multiple positions like PF and C.  I think when you break it down strictly by position, or by all guards vs all bigs (not just pg vs pf and c), it looks a lot more even.

Well the last 4 title teams have had collectively at PF - Gasol, Gasol, Garnett, Duncan - the PG's of those teams Fisher, Fisher, Rondo (very young), Parker (all star).  The Heat going back further was Haslem and Jason Williams.  Then the Spurs again.  Then the Pistons when Billups was the 4th best player behind Rasheed, Ben, and Hamilton.  Then the Spurs again when the gap between Duncan and Parker was tremendous.  The three Lakers teams had PF's of Samaki Walker (awful), Horace Grant (not bad), and AC Green and the PG's were Fisher, Harper, and Harper.  So about the same, but that is the only time. 

The Bulls had Dennis Rodman who happens to be the greatest rebounder in NBA history and is a top five defender all time for the last three and Horace Grant (an all star) for the first three, both vastly superior to the PG by committee the Bulls employed (Paxson x2, Armstrong, Harper x3).  Houston had Otis Thorpe and Robert Horry, who were both superior to the PG of those teams - Vernon Maxwell (you could argue the PG was Kenny Smith but it doesn't matter for purposes of this discussion).