Not Buying Marquis Daniels

[billysan]

For me, it came down to a choice. Do we want to go into the year having depth at C/PF or SF? Which positional lack of depth may have cost us a title? I think most of us agree it wasnt SF depth.

I am happy with Marquis Daniels and do not expect all star level play from him. I also trust Danny to find us a wing player at the deadline if we need one. I am more concerned with the loss of Delonte at this stage and wether Doc will play Von Wafer of burn out Paul and Ray.

[Jon]

Two quick things:

1) I think people are getting spoiled by having 5 All Star level starters.  Of course there's going to be a drop off when the bench comes in.

2) If anything, I think Marquis should be playing more now.  Regardless of what you think of him, the solution to West being out can't be playing Ray 43 mpg.  Plus, I think Marquis would do better if he played 25 mpg and got a rhythm going.  I'd really like to see Doc find a way to incorporate him better. 

[Drucci]

Two quick things:

1) I think people are getting spoiled by having 5 All Star level starters.  Of course there's going to be a drop off when the bench comes in.

2) If anything, I think Marquis should be playing more now.  Regardless of what you think of him, the solution to West being out can't be playing Ray 43 mpg.  Plus, I think Marquis would do better if he played 25 mpg and got a rhythm going.  I'd really like to see Doc find a way to incorporate him better.  

Agreed. Plus, Marquis is criticized a lot because he doesn't score that much but his defense is overlooked, he usually plays very good D and was terrific in limiting/stopping Kleiza last night (one particular play comes to mind, when he made him lose the ball after playing great D on every Kleiza's pump fake, dribble and other stuff).

It would be nice to see Marquis score more or simply get more shots offensively. The 2nd unit's offense would look much better if Marquis took more shots than Baby (ditto for Nate). His postupgame is very good but he doesn't use it often enough.

Of course, Marquis doesn't provide spacing on the court and it's a weakness but that's not was he is asked to do.

Anyway, I'd rather have Marquis as our primary backup wing instead of Matt Barnes. Quisy plays much better D, doesn't force shots and plays within the flow of the game. He has a lot of intangibles that are not necessarily seen by the fans because he is not flashy but he is one of the keys of our 2nd unit.

So far he has stayed healthy, and that's his biggest "challenge", so he has been a really good surprise to this point, I hope he gets more minutes.

[Overrated]

Marquis is the best defender off the bench, plus he is a smart player. With Delonte out for awhile I think he's going to be relied on a bit more.

[housecall]

 Marquis seems to play better when he has the opportunity to get a rhythm ...he's plays better when given decent playing time.He's not as effective with spot minutes.Some players can come right in and give you a lot in shorter minutes.IMO

[billysan]

Marquis seems to play better when he has the opportunity to get a rhythm ...he's plays better when given decent playing time.He's not as effective with spot minutes.Some players can come right in and give you a lot in shorter minutes.IMO

While I agree that he would play better with better minutes, there are too many times when Doc feels he needs Paul or Ray's offense more. A slight change in offensive approach is noticeable because drop off is significant. I think if we push the pace even harder with he, Baby and Nate on the floor that he could also be more productive offensively.

[Jon]

Marquis seems to play better when he has the opportunity to get a rhythm ...he's plays better when given decent playing time.He's not as effective with spot minutes.Some players can come right in and give you a lot in shorter minutes.IMO

While I agree that he would play better with better minutes, there are too many times when Doc feels he needs Paul or Ray's offense more. A slight change in offensive approach is noticeable because drop off is significant. I think if we push the pace even harder with he, Baby and Nate on the floor that he could also be more productive offensively.

True, but I also think Doc needs to look to Marquis earlier in the game and get him some minutes with the starters (sans Paul or Ray).  He'd actually fit in quite well and we could start getting Paul and Ray rest early so they're ready to finish games. 

Also, the other problem is that Doc waits until Paul and Ray are both gassed, and then inserts Marquis.  The problem is that a) he can't replace both of them at the same time and b) it leaves Paul or Ray in the game fatigued.  If he took out Paul or Ray before either is gassed and inserted Marquis, by the time the remaining one is tired (Paul or Ray) the other would be ready to come back in.  That way we could stick to a 3 man rotation at the 2/3 AND keep Paul and Ray's minutes down. 

[Larry for 3]

Agree with this thread 100 % !  Never been a Marquis guy at all. I dont think he brings alot to the table. This is really gonna show up, not so much now, but against the Lakers in the Finals it definately will.  I think Shannon Brown and Matt Barnes are both better and help their team more than MD does. It makes a big difference in a 7 games series where Pierce & Allen both could need extended blows for foul trouble or maybe they turn an ankle.  That's why my fingers are crossed Delonte makes it back for the playoffs.  He would be huge against the Lakers. I would take Tony Allen any day of the week over Marquis.

[birdwatcher]

I think  Quis is fine, and his "lack" of production (I mean what are we expecting from this position with the minutes he's getting)isn't a big deal. Everyone that gets on the floor isn't going to give you a double double every night. One of his flaws IMO is he over passes. He makes good decisions with the ball, understands the offense and defense well and is more of a conduit for scoring in our offense. He may not rack up a ton of assists, but he keeps the ball moving, he doesn't slow it down when he gets it and has a knack for finding blue sky in the paint. His turnovers are the type you see from a guy who just isn't on the floor enough during games--an errant pass on offense, trying to do too much on defense...What more do you want from him? Tony Allen was a solid defender, but he made a lot of stupid mistakes on both ends of the floor from the day he was drafted to the day he left. But, people still wish he was here instead of Marquis. For what he's getting paid I think he's fine, and I think when the team needs him to step up he will. I also think that the finding the right rotation with him will help, but our injuries aren't going to help with that. Having him on the floor with Nate and Baby isn't going to help our rebounding. Semih seems more and more tentative with his shoulder when it comes to mixing it up, and I think that second unit is missing Jermaine O'Neal's height and toughness a lot.

[BballTim]

  He's our 4th or so best bench player when we're healthy. Do all those teams have better bench players than Shaq, BBD and Delonte? Do any of them?

They have nothing to do with Marquis. Doc can mix and match between a lot of different positions because of the depth. That depth doesn't exist behind Pierce. You got Q and Q only. Frankly, he doesn't cut it.

  How many teams have a top 4 comparable to ours, a 5th starter on the level of Shaq/Perk and 5 solid bench players? How many of those teams play 5 subs better than Daniels? Every team has weak spots, and most teams have weak spots more glaring than Daniels.

[gar]

Rotations, Rotations: If Doc takes PP out early Ray looses the spacing he needs. If you take Ray out early, same story. If you play Nate and Rondo you are undersized. If you play Nate and Quisy you loose Rondo's play making. Delonte was key. He played/es better perimeter D and can guard PG and SG's far better the Q. Posting up Q has not been that effective. When he had his mid range game going we were able to get some spacing back; but he has gone away from that. Q is as advertised; but he needs to be more aggressive.

[Jon]

Rotations, Rotations: If Doc takes PP out early Ray looses the spacing he needs. If you take Ray out early, same story. If you play Nate and Rondo you are undersized. If you play Nate and Quisy you loose Rondo's play making. Delonte was key. He played/es better perimeter D and can guard PG and SG's far better the Q. Posting up Q has not been that effective. When he had his mid range game going we were able to get some spacing back; but he has gone away from that. Q is as advertised; but he needs to be more aggressive.

All of your points are theoretically true; however, I think a lineup of Shaq, KG, Rondo, Daniels, and either Ray or Paul is going to give most teams fits despite Marquis's lack of shooting range. 

[mgent]

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Is he for sale?

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[mmbaby]

Marquis plays very good defense and always has his eyes on the ball. He's a good point guard and is quite consistent most nights, as long as he's playing more than 10 minutes. Ray has nights when he is just off - everyone knows that. Marquis can fill in well for him on those nights and can also play the pg.