Stephane Lasme

[rondohondo]

I liked what I saw from Lasme tonight too, but in truth, I think all his shots were from 3 feet and in.  Did not attempt a jumper.  Loved his activity though.  He might have been going nuts because I think he was matched up (for the most part) with Jason Kapono, and Lasme can simply physically overwhelm an unathletic guy like that.

Hoping he has a another strong showing tomorrow against different competition.  Would really like a long guy that can defend taller 3s.  We have no one like him on the squad.

Who cares about his offense -- he can bring a couple of points to the table on garbage and rebounds, like he did last night. And we're not going to need scoring from him if the new 2nd unit can hold up.

It's his D that's the issue.

Really? Because he won defensive player of the year back when he played in the D-league. Seems to me that he has some ability there.

He has ability against lesser players as a 4/5.  How would he adjust to defending the best players in the world as a small forward, a position he's never really played?

Also, his defense is more in the way of team defense, where his blocks are big.  One-on-one, he's never really been a lockdown guy, which doesn't necessarily speak well of his transition to the 3.

Doc says he can play as a 3/4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtSrlaTLlRk&feature=player_embedded

@ 26 secs

[ssspence]

I liked what I saw from Lasme tonight too, but in truth, I think all his shots were from 3 feet and in.  Did not attempt a jumper.  Loved his activity though.  He might have been going nuts because I think he was matched up (for the most part) with Jason Kapono, and Lasme can simply physically overwhelm an unathletic guy like that.

Hoping he has a another strong showing tomorrow against different competition.  Would really like a long guy that can defend taller 3s.  We have no one like him on the squad.

Who cares about his offense -- he can bring a couple of points to the table on garbage and rebounds, like he did last night. And we're not going to need scoring from him if the new 2nd unit can hold up.

It's his D that's the issue.

Really? Because he won defensive player of the year back when he played in the D-league. Seems to me that he has some ability there.

He has ability against lesser players as a 4/5.  How would he adjust to defending the best players in the world as a small forward, a position he's never really played?

Also, his defense is more in the way of team defense, where his blocks are big.  One-on-one, he's never really been a lockdown guy, which doesn't necessarily speak well of his transition to the 3.

Doc says he can play as a 3/4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtSrlaTLlRk&feature=player_embedded

@ 26 secs

this is my point. i can't say i know if he's a poor, capable or strong man defender. but this will dictate whether he has a chance to make the team. we should also not discount how good of a team defender / garbage man he could be on the Cs. if he produces steals, blocks, o boards, etc while showing capable man d at the 3, you'd certainly be tempted to keep him over wafer or m west. note draftexpress.com's last entry about him:

20 Stephane Lasme PF
27 years old, 6' 7" 213lbs.
Maccabi Tel Aviv

Coming off a phenomenal rookie European season with overachieving Partizan Belgrade, Lasme is settling into a smaller role on a bigger team in Maccabi Tel Aviv. He continues to be an absolute statistical monster on defense, collecting a ridiculous 6 blocks and steals combined per game per-40 minutes adjusted in the Euroleague. He’s also a very good offensive rebounder, and does a good job playing within himself, even if he’s not much of a factor as a scoring threat. Although he’s on the small side at 6-7, there’s a chance that he could be a productive player in the mold of Chuck Hayes or Joel Anthony in the right role. The team that initially drafted him—the Golden State Warriors—obviously were never going to be a good fit seeing as they don’t value the things he does well.


From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com/article/DraftExpress-Overseas-Free-Agent-Rankings-Players-13-24-3361/#ixzz11gqq72DA
http://www.draftexpress.com

[Chris]

this is my point. i can't say i know if he's a poor, capable or strong man defender. but this will dictate whether he has a chance to make the team. we should also not discount how good of a team defender / garbage man he could be on the Cs. if he produces steals, blocks, o boards, etc while showing capable man d at the 3, you'd certainly be tempted to keep him over wafer or m west. note draftexpress.com's last entry about him:

The problem is, he does not have the perimeter skills to play the 3 offensively even passably well.  One way players do not make it in the NBA.  You need to be at least decent on both ends of the floor to be an NBA player, otherwise you start taking too much off the table.  If Lasme is not skilled enough on the perimeter to keep defenses honest, then it completely kills their offensive flow.  You can have a garbage man at the 4, but at the 3, you need to have the skills.

This is what killed the other Umass kid who was just cut, and the guy who they signed off the summerleague team in 2007-2008.  They were big men with no perimeter skills, but who could defend SF's.  Without those perimeter skills, they just became complete liabilities.

And despite Draft Express's scouting report (I have made my thoughts known about draft express scouting reports in the past), I do not feel he is good defender.  He is a great athlete who can block shots, but that does not make him a great defender.

[Sizzlack]

this is my point. i can't say i know if he's a poor, capable or strong man defender. but this will dictate whether he has a chance to make the team. we should also not discount how good of a team defender / garbage man he could be on the Cs. if he produces steals, blocks, o boards, etc while showing capable man d at the 3, you'd certainly be tempted to keep him over wafer or m west. note draftexpress.com's last entry about him:

The problem is, he does not have the perimeter skills to play the 3 offensively even passably well.  One way players do not make it in the NBA.  You need to be at least decent on both ends of the floor to be an NBA player, otherwise you start taking too much off the table.  If Lasme is not skilled enough on the perimeter to keep defenses honest, then it completely kills their offensive flow.  You can have a garbage man at the 4, but at the 3, you need to have the skills.

This is what killed the other Umass kid who was just cut, and the guy who they signed off the summerleague team in 2007-2008.  They were big men with no perimeter skills, but who could defend SF's.  Without those perimeter skills, they just became complete liabilities.

And despite Draft Express's scouting report (I have made my thoughts known about draft express scouting reports in the past), I do not feel he is good defender.  He is a great athlete who can block shots, but that does not make him a great defender.

Well, Tony Allen seemed to excel while being a complete perimeter liability, and having only one true discernible skill... defending the perimeter.

And Lasme can at least shoot free throws reasonably well. Last night, we saw some great slashing and finishing ability for Stephane, if he can do that, can hit his shots when he gets to the line, he can put up points in this league. He has the athletic gifts to play defense, the rest is learning the system and working hard to get better.

[Chris]

this is my point. i can't say i know if he's a poor, capable or strong man defender. but this will dictate whether he has a chance to make the team. we should also not discount how good of a team defender / garbage man he could be on the Cs. if he produces steals, blocks, o boards, etc while showing capable man d at the 3, you'd certainly be tempted to keep him over wafer or m west. note draftexpress.com's last entry about him:

The problem is, he does not have the perimeter skills to play the 3 offensively even passably well.  One way players do not make it in the NBA.  You need to be at least decent on both ends of the floor to be an NBA player, otherwise you start taking too much off the table.  If Lasme is not skilled enough on the perimeter to keep defenses honest, then it completely kills their offensive flow.  You can have a garbage man at the 4, but at the 3, you need to have the skills.

This is what killed the other Umass kid who was just cut, and the guy who they signed off the summerleague team in 2007-2008.  They were big men with no perimeter skills, but who could defend SF's.  Without those perimeter skills, they just became complete liabilities.

And despite Draft Express's scouting report (I have made my thoughts known about draft express scouting reports in the past), I do not feel he is good defender.  He is a great athlete who can block shots, but that does not make him a great defender.

Well, Tony Allen seemed to excel while being a complete perimeter liability, and having only one true discernible skill... defending the perimeter.

This is a falacy.  Tony Allen may be a below average offensive player by NBA standards, but he is 100 times better than Lasme and that other UMASS guy. 

Same thing with Scal.  He is a below average offensive player by NBA standard, but when you are comparing him with D-league players he is well above average.

[Mencius]

...  Put him against actual NBA players, and I think the shine would come off pretty quickly. 

Plus, there just is no room for him on this team.  They have much more use for an extra wing than an extra big man at this point.

You may well be right about his shine fading fast against real NBA players.  Hopefully we'll get to see him against some in this preseason to truly know.

If he makes this team, it will be as an extra wing (as in the long 3 defender).

[Mencius]

The problem is, he does not have the perimeter skills to play the 3 offensively even passably well.  One way players do not make it in the NBA.  You need to be at least decent on both ends of the floor to be an NBA player, otherwise you start taking too much off the table.  If Lasme is not skilled enough on the perimeter to keep defenses honest, then it completely kills their offensive flow.  You can have a garbage man at the 4, but at the 3, you need to have the skills.

Some guys with no offense have found their niche in the NBA.  I'm not saying that Lasme can (I haven't seen enough of him), but I'm saying it has been done (even wing guys).  TA and Bowen come to mind immediately.  I realize that in later years, Bowen also developed a 3 point shot.  You really need to be an exceptional defender to pull it off though.  Don't know enough about Lasme to make that call.

If he did make it on the team, it would not be a good idea to have him and Rondo on the floor at the same time.  If, however, he was on the floor with Nate, Delonte, Baby, and JO, I think there's enough shooting on that squad for them to get away with just having a super defender on the floor (if he be that).

[Chris]

Some guys with no offense have found their niche in the NBA.  I'm not saying that Lasme can (I haven't seen enough of him), but I'm saying it has been done (even wing guys).  TA and Bowen come to mind immediately.  I realize that in later years, Bowen also developed a 3 point shot.  You really need to be an exceptional defender to pull it off though.  Don't know enough about Lasme to make that call.

Again, there is a huge difference between subpar offensive NBA players like Tony Allen and Bruce Bowen, and significantly subpar offensive D-league players like we are looking at here.

[ssspence]

this is my point. i can't say i know if he's a poor, capable or strong man defender. but this will dictate whether he has a chance to make the team. we should also not discount how good of a team defender / garbage man he could be on the Cs. if he produces steals, blocks, o boards, etc while showing capable man d at the 3, you'd certainly be tempted to keep him over wafer or m west. note draftexpress.com's last entry about him:

The problem is, he does not have the perimeter skills to play the 3 offensively even passably well.  One way players do not make it in the NBA.  You need to be at least decent on both ends of the floor to be an NBA player, otherwise you start taking too much off the table.  If Lasme is not skilled enough on the perimeter to keep defenses honest, then it completely kills their offensive flow.  You can have a garbage man at the 4, but at the 3, you need to have the skills.

This is what killed the other Umass kid who was just cut, and the guy who they signed off the summerleague team in 2007-2008.  They were big men with no perimeter skills, but who could defend SF's.  Without those perimeter skills, they just became complete liabilities.

And despite Draft Express's scouting report (I have made my thoughts known about draft express scouting reports in the past), I do not feel he is good defender.  He is a great athlete who can block shots, but that does not make him a great defender.

Chris, i think Mbah a Moute kills your point. And at his price, every team would take him on their squad.

With that said, this kid is not currently and not likely to ever be as versitile defensively. But he sure looked like a live wire last night.

If Wafer is really struggling to show offesnive skills, i'd take Lasme as the last man until an alternative presents itself (ahem, Stackhouse).

[Mencius]

Again, there is a huge difference between subpar offensive NBA players like Tony Allen and Bruce Bowen, and significantly subpar offensive D-league players like we are looking at here.

Bruce Bowen was severely sub-par offensively until he found a 3 point shot somewhat later in his career, but he was still in the league.  I'm not saying Lasme will make it, just that it has been done before.

[Chris]

Chris, i think Mbah a Moute kills your point. And at his price, every team would take him on their squad.

Again, different level.  Mbah a Moute is still a significantly better perimeter offensive player than Lasme.  This guy is a power forward, plain and simple.  He does not have the skills to play the SF.  So unless he can be an excellent PF defender (which I don't see, but its early), he is not making this team. 

[Fan from VT]

I think Chris's point, which is quite valid, is that even though we like to throw out extremes, like "TA, Bowen, and Moute have NO Offensive skills," it's just not true. Relative to other NBA players they have less offensive skill, but they would be awesome at offense if they dropped back into D-league/College. There's just a gulf. Compared to the "No Offense" NBA defensive specialists, most D-Leaguers have Negative Offense. It's all relative, and it's that much harder to score in the NBA than D-League, so "No Offense" in D-league is way worse than "No offense" NBA.

A guy like Quinton Ross was a 20ppg scorer in college! Now he's "No-Offense" player.

Could Lasme end up like Moute or Ben Wallace or Ross or Bowen? Absolutely. But there's a vast gulf in offensive abilities if you are "All-D/No-O" in the NBA vs. "All-D/No-O" i the D-League.

[mgent]

From what I saw last night, his defense was not bad at all (team and man).  He looks quick enough to handle most 3s (at only 210 he's not really strong enough to play the 4 in the NBA).

As for his offense, he'll get his points from garbage or hustle, which I don't really mind with our 2nd unit.  I need to see more of him and Wafer, but Wafer's already at a disadvantage with Bradley and Delonte on the roster.

[ssspence]

Chris, i think Mbah a Moute kills your point. And at his price, every team would take him on their squad.

Again, different level.  Mbah a Moute is still a significantly better perimeter offensive player than Lasme.  This guy is a power forward, plain and simple.  He does not have the skills to play the SF.  So unless he can be an excellent PF defender (which I don't see, but its early), he is not making this team. 

He's a terrible offensive player (and I'd love to have him). Lasme had 12 points in 7 minutes (of garbage time) last night. He got boards and got to the line. 

I think it's taking the point too far to suggest garbage men can't exist at the 3 in the NBA provided they're good defenders and rebounders. This is not so much about Lasme to me -- he may not prove to be that defender. But unless you've been a fly on the wall at camp, the Cs know more about this than we do, and presumably this is the measuring stick they're using. If they wanted offense from him he'd be with gaffney in turkey right now.

[Kuberski33]

In general about the game, don't draw a lot of conclusions about anyone.  Philly was beyond awful and at times they looked like they were playing a pick up game (and getting killed). 

Personally I would be real disappointed if Wafer doesn't make the team.  I think he can help over the long haul plus the culture here could be the best thing that ever happened to his career.

The guy has talent.