Stephane Lasme

[DinoRadjaLives]

The true question with Lasme will be "Is he worth more to us this year than Harangody ?" At this point I think he should get a spot over Luke. To this point Luke has been a dissapointment. I truly believe with some coaching Lasme can be a versitile defender of in the NBA. Plus we can retain Harngody's rights if he goes over to Europe for the year.

[ssspence]

I didn't get to see the game last night, but people seem to be raving about Lasme's play.  Looking at his stat-line, I'm underwhelmed:  2 points, 1 rebound, 1 assist, 0 steals, 0 blocks, 0 turnovers, 50% shooting, 2 personal fouls, and one thunderous dunk in 10 minutes.

What was it that he did to impress people?  Was it just the drive and dunk?  Did he play smothering defense?  Did he move the ball well?

I loved Lasme's production in the first game, and I root for any guy who plays with heart and hustle.  I hope he becomes an NBA player.  However, I'm still not as excited as maybe a lot of his supporters are.

I was completely underwhelmed by him last night.  He fumbled away 3-4 balls, and looked lost at times.  He also was being overpowered constantly in the post.  His only real positive was a loud dunk that never would have happened if Bargnani even tried to step in the lane (or his own man didn't show him the lane with no help).

Basically, he is a heck of an athlete, with very little basketball skill, and questionable hands.  He is a less skilled, and significantly weaker Leon Powe.

I don't follow the powe comparison. one guy is an undersized post player with strong scoring skills, limited athleticism and very poor team defensive instincts. the other is an undersized garbage man with no offensive skills but tantilizing athleticism and defensive potential should he be coached by someone other than don nelson or various euros.

i'm not really defending lasme here, just don't get the powe comparison. let's imagine baby or daniels goes down in mid-december and doc decides to give lasme some minutes off the bench because defense rules and harangody isn't there yet. can i see stephane scoring 14 points on putbacks and o boards alone? not really. can i see him driving an opponent nuts with his long arms and quickness, and racking up 4 blocks and 9 boards? can i see him running the floor and catching an alley-oop dunk from rondo or delonte that inspires the crowd and the team? really doesn't seem like a stretch.

and what's the identity of this team? it's defense and energy....

Powe was a very good athlete, so I am not sure where you get limited athleticism.  The comparison is that they are both undersized PF's whose (pro) games are based around using their quickness and hustle to grab rebounds and get garbage baskets.  Powe had a stronger body, and much better footwork and hands, which is why he is an NBA player, but their core game is similar.

As for the defense...well, I haven't really seen it yet from Lasme.  He is clearly a shotblocker, but I think that may be one of the most overrated stats in general.  I have yet to see him able to root out the post, he has shown questionable positioning, and his footwork leaves a lot to be desired.  Perhaps he is still just learning the system, and that is holding him back, but I am not yet ready to call him a defensive force...particularly not enough to overcome his offensive deficiencies.

As for the idea of him running the court and finishing alley-oops from Rondo...do you know how many guys on the street could do that just as well?  This guy is a classic tweener, and until he can prove he can either play SF on offense, or handle the post defensively, he is not going to be an NBA player.

I'm not ready to call him a force either. far from it. i think he had the potential to be a much improved defender with top coaching, which he'd get. of course i'd much rather have leon -- we sure missed his offensive skills on the 2nd unit last year -- but let's not start that again.

as for leon's athleticism, i don't really follow. quickness? when? he's a one-on-one post player and a marginal help defender at best. he was never quick on the Cs, and i don't think another blown knee will help that. leon's a guy with physical limitations and great heart who makes the most of what he's got, particularly on the offesnive boards. maybe that's where the comparison with lasme should come in, if stephane proves to be that type of guy. but leon did that with strength, lasme does it with leaping ability. and i don't want him to be leon, i want him to be a plastic man.

[ssspence]

The true question with Lasme will be "Is he worth more to us this year than Harangody ?" At this point I think he should get a spot over Luke. To this point Luke has been a dissapointment. I truly believe with some coaching Lasme can be a versitile defender of in the NBA. Plus we can retain Harngody's rights if he goes over to Europe for the year.

too early to give up on luke. these are end of the bench guys -- if their desire to improve is there, keep 'em.

[Chris]

The true question with Lasme will be "Is he worth more to us this year than Harangody ?" At this point I think he should get a spot over Luke. To this point Luke has been a dissapointment. I truly believe with some coaching Lasme can be a versitile defender of in the NBA. Plus we can retain Harngody's rights if he goes over to Europe for the year.

So let me ask you this...how come he hasn't gotten that coaching in the last 3+ years?  He is nearly 28 years old and has been kicking around for a while now.  This is not some 20 year old kid.  I find it hard to believe that he just needs a little more coaching to suddenly become an NBA player.  

As for Harangody, if we cut him, we lose his rights.  We would have retained him if we offered him a contract, and he didn't sign it, but once he signed, we lost that chance.  I also think you have to be more patient with him.  He has shown to have a very high basketball IQ, but is still learning to adjust to the speed of the game (much like we saw from Ryan Gomes early).  Once he calms down, and learns to take his time more, he will be OK.

[Chris]

I didn't get to see the game last night, but people seem to be raving about Lasme's play.  Looking at his stat-line, I'm underwhelmed:  2 points, 1 rebound, 1 assist, 0 steals, 0 blocks, 0 turnovers, 50% shooting, 2 personal fouls, and one thunderous dunk in 10 minutes.

What was it that he did to impress people?  Was it just the drive and dunk?  Did he play smothering defense?  Did he move the ball well?

I loved Lasme's production in the first game, and I root for any guy who plays with heart and hustle.  I hope he becomes an NBA player.  However, I'm still not as excited as maybe a lot of his supporters are.

I was completely underwhelmed by him last night.  He fumbled away 3-4 balls, and looked lost at times.  He also was being overpowered constantly in the post.  His only real positive was a loud dunk that never would have happened if Bargnani even tried to step in the lane (or his own man didn't show him the lane with no help).

Basically, he is a heck of an athlete, with very little basketball skill, and questionable hands.  He is a less skilled, and significantly weaker Leon Powe.

I don't follow the powe comparison. one guy is an undersized post player with strong scoring skills, limited athleticism and very poor team defensive instincts. the other is an undersized garbage man with no offensive skills but tantilizing athleticism and defensive potential should he be coached by someone other than don nelson or various euros.

i'm not really defending lasme here, just don't get the powe comparison. let's imagine baby or daniels goes down in mid-december and doc decides to give lasme some minutes off the bench because defense rules and harangody isn't there yet. can i see stephane scoring 14 points on putbacks and o boards alone? not really. can i see him driving an opponent nuts with his long arms and quickness, and racking up 4 blocks and 9 boards? can i see him running the floor and catching an alley-oop dunk from rondo or delonte that inspires the crowd and the team? really doesn't seem like a stretch.

and what's the identity of this team? it's defense and energy....

Powe was a very good athlete, so I am not sure where you get limited athleticism.  The comparison is that they are both undersized PF's whose (pro) games are based around using their quickness and hustle to grab rebounds and get garbage baskets.  Powe had a stronger body, and much better footwork and hands, which is why he is an NBA player, but their core game is similar.

As for the defense...well, I haven't really seen it yet from Lasme.  He is clearly a shotblocker, but I think that may be one of the most overrated stats in general.  I have yet to see him able to root out the post, he has shown questionable positioning, and his footwork leaves a lot to be desired.  Perhaps he is still just learning the system, and that is holding him back, but I am not yet ready to call him a defensive force...particularly not enough to overcome his offensive deficiencies.

As for the idea of him running the court and finishing alley-oops from Rondo...do you know how many guys on the street could do that just as well?  This guy is a classic tweener, and until he can prove he can either play SF on offense, or handle the post defensively, he is not going to be an NBA player.

I'm not ready to call him a force either. far from it. i think he had the potential to be a much improved defender with top coaching, which he'd get. of course i'd much rather have leon -- we sure missed his offensive skills on the 2nd unit last year -- but let's not start that again.

as for leon's athleticism, i don't really follow. quickness? when? he's a one-on-one post player and a marginal help defender at best. he was never quick on the Cs, and i don't think another blown knee will help that. leon's a guy with physical limitations and great heart who makes the most of what he's got, particularly on the offesnive boards. maybe that's where the comparison with lasme should come in, if stephane proves to be that type of guy. but leon did that with strength, lasme does it with leaping ability. and i don't want him to be leon, i want him to be a plastic man.

I was talking about Powe pre-injury.  Currently he is a borderline NBA player at best.  But pre-injury he was very athletic and had tremendously quick feet.  He had major issues remembering the rotations and knowing where to be, but his athleticism was what allowed him to succeed despite that.

[ssspence]

The true question with Lasme will be "Is he worth more to us this year than Harangody ?" At this point I think he should get a spot over Luke. To this point Luke has been a dissapointment. I truly believe with some coaching Lasme can be a versitile defender of in the NBA. Plus we can retain Harngody's rights if he goes over to Europe for the year.

So let me ask you this...how come he hasn't gotten that coaching in the last 3+ years?  He is nearly 28 years old and has been kicking around for a while now.  This is not some 20 year old kid.  I find it hard to believe that he just needs a little more coaching to suddenly become an NBA player.  

As for Harangody, if we cut him, we lose his rights.  We would have retained him if we offered him a contract, and he didn't sign it, but once he signed, we lost that chance.  I also think you have to be more patient with him.  He has shown to have a very high basketball IQ, but is still learning to adjust to the speed of the game (much like we saw from Ryan Gomes early).  Once he calms down, and learns to take his time more, he will be OK.

i agree on Luke, but don't follow your point on Lasme -- he's been playing basketball for far less of his life than most, and he's 3 years out of school. the coaching at Partizan Belgrade was akin to Doc and Lawrence Frank? was he going up against KG and PP in practice, and in the film room? Sometimes a player just needs to right opportunity to blossom. Ainge saw that in his try out, apparently. Sounds like Doc's seeing it too.

[gar]

Lamse started playing Bball hen he was 15. If he is 28 then that is a good stretch of time. The problem is that for most of that time he had little formal training. He is still learning the game to a certain extent and there may be room for skills improvement. Long range obviously Harangody may have more to offer. He can rebound; but is a not able to do anything on the perimeter other the pass or shoot. If Lasme can improve his midrange game he will stick.

[Chris]

The true question with Lasme will be "Is he worth more to us this year than Harangody ?" At this point I think he should get a spot over Luke. To this point Luke has been a dissapointment. I truly believe with some coaching Lasme can be a versitile defender of in the NBA. Plus we can retain Harngody's rights if he goes over to Europe for the year.

So let me ask you this...how come he hasn't gotten that coaching in the last 3+ years?  He is nearly 28 years old and has been kicking around for a while now.  This is not some 20 year old kid.  I find it hard to believe that he just needs a little more coaching to suddenly become an NBA player.  

As for Harangody, if we cut him, we lose his rights.  We would have retained him if we offered him a contract, and he didn't sign it, but once he signed, we lost that chance.  I also think you have to be more patient with him.  He has shown to have a very high basketball IQ, but is still learning to adjust to the speed of the game (much like we saw from Ryan Gomes early).  Once he calms down, and learns to take his time more, he will be OK.

i agree on Luke, but don't follow your point on Lasme -- he's been playing basketball for far less of his life than most, and he's 3 years out of school. the coaching at Partizan Belgrade was akin to Doc and Lawrence Frank? was he going up against KG and PP in practice, and in the film room? Sometimes a player just needs to right opportunity to blossom. Ainge saw that in his try out, apparently. Sounds like Doc's seeing it too.

Well, we will just have to see.  But I stand by my thinking.  He will not be a SF unless he learns to play perimeter offense, and he will not be a PF unless he gets strong enough to defend the post.  If he can do either of those things, he has a chance to make the league.  But based on what I have seen, I do not expect that to happen this preseason, and I don't see Doc taking on a project like that, with such a low ceiling player this year.  

Best case I can see for him is they sign him to the D-league team (under the new rules), so he can work with Austin Ainge on either getting stronger, or learning to be a perimeter player, and then he hopes for a 10 day contract in February.  But more likely is looking at an invite next season.

[the_Bird]

The true question with Lasme will be "Is he worth more to us this year than Harangody ?" At this point I think he should get a spot over Luke. To this point Luke has been a dissapointment. I truly believe with some coaching Lasme can be a versitile defender of in the NBA. Plus we can retain Harngody's rights if he goes over to Europe for the year.

We'd only have maintained Luke's rights if he didn't sign an NBA contract, which he did.  If you don't want Luke to count towards the 15, we'd have to waive him, so we'd lose his rights.

It's not Luke-or-Lasme, that's completely clear from everything the team has said.  They're keeping Luke around, they think he's a worthwhile project (just like Semih).  The last roster spot is between Lasme, Mario West, and Wafer (which says a lot about how far Wafer has fallen, from being a key contributor to the Rockets to having probably a 50/50 chance of even being in the league). 

[ssspence]

The true question with Lasme will be "Is he worth more to us this year than Harangody ?" At this point I think he should get a spot over Luke. To this point Luke has been a dissapointment. I truly believe with some coaching Lasme can be a versitile defender of in the NBA. Plus we can retain Harngody's rights if he goes over to Europe for the year.

So let me ask you this...how come he hasn't gotten that coaching in the last 3+ years?  He is nearly 28 years old and has been kicking around for a while now.  This is not some 20 year old kid.  I find it hard to believe that he just needs a little more coaching to suddenly become an NBA player.  

As for Harangody, if we cut him, we lose his rights.  We would have retained him if we offered him a contract, and he didn't sign it, but once he signed, we lost that chance.  I also think you have to be more patient with him.  He has shown to have a very high basketball IQ, but is still learning to adjust to the speed of the game (much like we saw from Ryan Gomes early).  Once he calms down, and learns to take his time more, he will be OK.

i agree on Luke, but don't follow your point on Lasme -- he's been playing basketball for far less of his life than most, and he's 3 years out of school. the coaching at Partizan Belgrade was akin to Doc and Lawrence Frank? was he going up against KG and PP in practice, and in the film room? Sometimes a player just needs to right opportunity to blossom. Ainge saw that in his try out, apparently. Sounds like Doc's seeing it too.

Well, we will just have to see.  But I stand by my thinking.  He will not be a SF unless he learns to play perimeter offense, and he will not be a PF unless he gets strong enough to defend the post.  If he can do either of those things, he has a chance to make the league.  But based on what I have seen, I do not expect that to happen this preseason, and I don't see Doc taking on a project like that, with such a low ceiling player this year.  

Best case I can see for him is they sign him to the D-league team (under the new rules), so he can work with Austin Ainge on either getting stronger, or learning to be a perimeter player, and then he hopes for a 10 day contract in February.  But more likely is looking at an invite next season.

fair enough. the d-league may indeed be his best option, since he's dedicated to staying in the states this year. to me he's the best existing option for the 15th spot, if we keep one. for now. certainly better options could come up.

[Chris]

The true question with Lasme will be "Is he worth more to us this year than Harangody ?" At this point I think he should get a spot over Luke. To this point Luke has been a dissapointment. I truly believe with some coaching Lasme can be a versitile defender of in the NBA. Plus we can retain Harngody's rights if he goes over to Europe for the year.

So let me ask you this...how come he hasn't gotten that coaching in the last 3+ years?  He is nearly 28 years old and has been kicking around for a while now.  This is not some 20 year old kid.  I find it hard to believe that he just needs a little more coaching to suddenly become an NBA player.  

As for Harangody, if we cut him, we lose his rights.  We would have retained him if we offered him a contract, and he didn't sign it, but once he signed, we lost that chance.  I also think you have to be more patient with him.  He has shown to have a very high basketball IQ, but is still learning to adjust to the speed of the game (much like we saw from Ryan Gomes early).  Once he calms down, and learns to take his time more, he will be OK.

i agree on Luke, but don't follow your point on Lasme -- he's been playing basketball for far less of his life than most, and he's 3 years out of school. the coaching at Partizan Belgrade was akin to Doc and Lawrence Frank? was he going up against KG and PP in practice, and in the film room? Sometimes a player just needs to right opportunity to blossom. Ainge saw that in his try out, apparently. Sounds like Doc's seeing it too.

Well, we will just have to see.  But I stand by my thinking.  He will not be a SF unless he learns to play perimeter offense, and he will not be a PF unless he gets strong enough to defend the post.  If he can do either of those things, he has a chance to make the league.  But based on what I have seen, I do not expect that to happen this preseason, and I don't see Doc taking on a project like that, with such a low ceiling player this year.  

Best case I can see for him is they sign him to the D-league team (under the new rules), so he can work with Austin Ainge on either getting stronger, or learning to be a perimeter player, and then he hopes for a 10 day contract in February.  But more likely is looking at an invite next season.

fair enough. the d-league may indeed be his best option, since he's dedicated to staying in the states this year. to me he's the best existing option for the 15th spot, if we keep one. for now. certainly better options could come up.

I would feel better about him for the 15th spot if we weren't already so deep up front, and so thin on the wing (particularly for the first 10 games).  I think it will be much easier for him to see time sooner rather than later as an energy PF, than a SF (as evidenced from him being played almost exclusively there so far this preseason).

Much like they did with Bill Walker his rookie year, it is much easier to fake it at the PF spot, and just use the energy and athleticism to bother second team big men, while patroling the inside for garbage buckets on offense, than it is to fake it at the SF spot, which requires a lot more skill in the C's system. 

So, while I think Lasme may be the better player and have the better preseason, Mario West and Wafer both have a much better shot of making this team, even if its just to give them a little depth for the first 10 games.  Put simply, they both know how to play the wing in the NBA, and can do it now, even if its at a low level.  But Lasme probably has a better chance of getting a 10 day contract in February, after he was worked on his game more.

[ssspence]

The true question with Lasme will be "Is he worth more to us this year than Harangody ?" At this point I think he should get a spot over Luke. To this point Luke has been a dissapointment. I truly believe with some coaching Lasme can be a versitile defender of in the NBA. Plus we can retain Harngody's rights if he goes over to Europe for the year.

So let me ask you this...how come he hasn't gotten that coaching in the last 3+ years?  He is nearly 28 years old and has been kicking around for a while now.  This is not some 20 year old kid.  I find it hard to believe that he just needs a little more coaching to suddenly become an NBA player.  

As for Harangody, if we cut him, we lose his rights.  We would have retained him if we offered him a contract, and he didn't sign it, but once he signed, we lost that chance.  I also think you have to be more patient with him.  He has shown to have a very high basketball IQ, but is still learning to adjust to the speed of the game (much like we saw from Ryan Gomes early).  Once he calms down, and learns to take his time more, he will be OK.

i agree on Luke, but don't follow your point on Lasme -- he's been playing basketball for far less of his life than most, and he's 3 years out of school. the coaching at Partizan Belgrade was akin to Doc and Lawrence Frank? was he going up against KG and PP in practice, and in the film room? Sometimes a player just needs to right opportunity to blossom. Ainge saw that in his try out, apparently. Sounds like Doc's seeing it too.

Well, we will just have to see.  But I stand by my thinking.  He will not be a SF unless he learns to play perimeter offense, and he will not be a PF unless he gets strong enough to defend the post.  If he can do either of those things, he has a chance to make the league.  But based on what I have seen, I do not expect that to happen this preseason, and I don't see Doc taking on a project like that, with such a low ceiling player this year.  

Best case I can see for him is they sign him to the D-league team (under the new rules), so he can work with Austin Ainge on either getting stronger, or learning to be a perimeter player, and then he hopes for a 10 day contract in February.  But more likely is looking at an invite next season.

fair enough. the d-league may indeed be his best option, since he's dedicated to staying in the states this year. to me he's the best existing option for the 15th spot, if we keep one. for now. certainly better options could come up.

I would feel better about him for the 15th spot if we weren't already so deep up front, and so thin on the wing (particularly for the first 10 games).  I think it will be much easier for him to see time sooner rather than later as an energy PF, than a SF (as evidenced from him being played almost exclusively there so far this preseason).

Much like they did with Bill Walker his rookie year, it is much easier to fake it at the PF spot, and just use the energy and athleticism to bother second team big men, while patroling the inside for garbage buckets on offense, than it is to fake it at the SF spot, which requires a lot more skill in the C's system. 

So, while I think Lasme may be the better player and have the better preseason, Mario West and Wafer both have a much better shot of making this team, even if its just to give them a little depth for the first 10 games.  Put simply, they both know how to play the wing in the NBA, and can do it now, even if its at a low level.  But Lasme probably has a better chance of getting a 10 day contract in February, after he was worked on his game more.

agreed. my guess is they'll look to talk lasme into a 'last cut' contract with maine. if wafer hadn't been so disappointing thus far, i wouldn't think twice about this. i also cannot understand why jerry stackhouse wouldn't be added instead. what am i missing -- is his attitude really that bad? does he have bad blodd with a couple of the guys?

[Chris]

i also cannot understand why jerry stackhouse wouldn't be added instead. what am i missing -- is his attitude really that bad? does he have bad blodd with a couple of the guys?

My guess is he has no interest in coming in to be a 5th wing (which is what he would likely be once West came back).  He knows he can sit back and relax until January or February, see how things shake out, and then catch on with a championship contender that he knows he will have a role with. 

[erisred]

It's Wafer's job to lose and so far I'd say he's losing it. That's not to say that Lasme or M. West have won anything yet, either.

Lasme's only hope for really sticking around in the NBA is to be able to defend 3's and provide just enough offense to not be a total liability. He can play a small, quick, 4, but I don't think he can play the 4 well enough to stick. We really haven't seen him play any 3 yet, maybe he's done it in practice and Doc is impressed, but he hasn't done it in game yet...I don't think. I think he's a very long shot to make the team, regardless of what Doc has had to say.  I can't root against him, though.

West has shown nothing in game, but he must have been doing something in practice to still be on the roster. Frankly, I'd be shocked if he makes the squad.

So, it's still Wafer's job to lose...and I think he might stick for the start of the season, at least.

It's possible that Lasme is signed with the Red Claws and Wafer is kept as the 15th man with the C's because of D. West's 10 game suspension. Once West gets back and is playing Wafer will be less needed and he might be replaced with someone else by the beginning of the year...Lasme possibly, but quite possibly a *real* backup 3...which neither Wafer or Lasme really are. 

[Chris]

West has shown nothing in game, but he must have been doing something in practice to still be on the roster. Frankly, I'd be shocked if he makes the squad.
 

I think it will be very telling whether West gets a long look in the next couple days or not.  He hasn't played much yet, but that could just be because they were looking at Wafer first, and West will have his shot now.  But if we don't see West in the next two games, and Wafer sees a lot of minutes, West will probably be on his way out.

Unfortunately, I don't think we can read in the same way to Lasme's minutes, simply because they have been dictated by the other bigs.  He played a lot because they have been limiting Shaqs minutes, and JO has been out, plus on Sunday, Davis was also out, so they needed to put Lasme out there earlier than they may have liked.