CB Draft '10 Playoffs First Round Eastern Conference

[Who]

2) Milwaukee over Indiana- Jason Kidd is bigger and better than Derick Fisher. Kobe is way better than Rip Hamilton. Pietrus is good enough to slow down Maggette and maggette is bad enough on defense that Pietrus should get close to 10 ppg. Nowitzki will absolutely destroy Ty THomas, and Marc Gasol is better than Marcin Gortat, but neither is a particularly amazing defender, so I see Gortat getting 10-12, to Gasol's 17-8. The key here will be who has an easier time; Nowitzki or Kobe, and with Jason Kidd providing the ammunition (and 10 points, 10 assists and 5 or 6 boards himself), Nowitzki has more to work with.

I have a great amount of respect for Milwaukee.  I believe I voted them 2nd or 3rd in the East.

But I'm surprised so many people are considering Indiana out of the running so easily.  I happen to think IP is very on point with his analysis right here, except I'd like to clarify a few things.

"Jason Kidd is bigger and better than Derek Fisher"

OK, maybe some truth here.  What does bigger have anything to do with anything though?  Because Jason Kidd can post up smaller point guards like we've seen him do before?  Correct.  But when was the last time you ever saw Derek Fisher posted up by another pg?  I just asked my friend, he replied, "never".  My answer was the same.  Fisher is a strong dude...

J-Kidd averaged 8ppg in 40+ mpg in last year's first round playoff matchup against T. Parker/G. Hill.  My point guards are not horrendously worse than those 2.  Especially Fisher against a pg like Kidd who Fisher can stay in front of.  If Jack wants any meaningful playing time, Kidd won't play 40 mpg.  Due to that, I don't see Kidd averaging over 8ppg against my team and I don't see ANY reason why Fisher can't score 9 ppg in 32 mpg.  He scored averages of 10.2 (vs. Westbrook), 11.3 (Deron Williams), 11.8 (Nash), and 8.6 ppg (Rondo/Ray) in the ordered rounds of the playoffs last postseason.  I think people are seriously sleeping on how much Fisher steps it up in the playoffs!!  Please reconsider this and I welcome anyone to refute this logic.  Out perform in rebounds and assists?  Perhaps.  Will Kidd outscore Fisher?  Fisher outscored Kidd in last season's playoffs against better defenders in LESS minutes!!  So, I think NOT.  Again, all are welcome to refute.

The reason I gave Milwaukee a matchup advantage at the point was due to Kidd's non-scoring contributions. His superior passing, rebounding and defense in comparison to Derek Fisher.

The scoring should be about even though.

[action781]

2) Milwaukee over Indiana- Jason Kidd is bigger and better than Derick Fisher. Kobe is way better than Rip Hamilton. Pietrus is good enough to slow down Maggette and maggette is bad enough on defense that Pietrus should get close to 10 ppg. Nowitzki will absolutely destroy Ty THomas, and Marc Gasol is better than Marcin Gortat, but neither is a particularly amazing defender, so I see Gortat getting 10-12, to Gasol's 17-8. The key here will be who has an easier time; Nowitzki or Kobe, and with Jason Kidd providing the ammunition (and 10 points, 10 assists and 5 or 6 boards himself), Nowitzki has more to work with.

This doesn't need too much explanation, but moving on to Kobe vs. Hamilton.

Let's just put it this way.  What's Rip Hamilton's best quality he brings to a team?  Probably coming off curl screens and pulling up for mid range jumpers.  Kobe can do it better.  Without a mask.  While contested.  What's Rip's next best asset?  Defense?  Kobe's is a multiple first team all-defense player and better than Rip to an extent that cannot even be quantified or qualified.  What's next?  How good Rip looks in a mask?  I bet Kobe would look better...

[KCattheStripe]

Battier can't really even slow LeBron anymore.

Says whom?

[Fafnir]

2) Milwaukee over Indiana- Jason Kidd is bigger and better than Derick Fisher. Kobe is way better than Rip Hamilton. Pietrus is good enough to slow down Maggette and maggette is bad enough on defense that Pietrus should get close to 10 ppg. Nowitzki will absolutely destroy Ty THomas, and Marc Gasol is better than Marcin Gortat, but neither is a particularly amazing defender, so I see Gortat getting 10-12, to Gasol's 17-8. The key here will be who has an easier time; Nowitzki or Kobe, and with Jason Kidd providing the ammunition (and 10 points, 10 assists and 5 or 6 boards himself), Nowitzki has more to work with.

This doesn't need too much explanation, but moving on to Kobe vs. Hamilton.

Let's just put it this way.  What's Rip Hamilton's best quality he brings to a team?  Probably coming off curl screens and pulling up for mid range jumpers.  Kobe can do it better.  Without a mask.  While contested.  What's Rip's next best asset?  Defense?  Kobe's is a multiple first team all-defense player and better than Rip to an extent that cannot even be quantified or qualified.  What's next?  How good Rip looks in a mask?  I bet Kobe would look better...

How will Kobe help the rest of your team match up with the Bucks however?

[StartOrien]

KC, does it concern you that with all the offensive fire power you have that your primary ball handler is more of a scorer than distributor?

IP, how would you defend a Stuckey-Amare pick and roll? Are you concerned that Lebron could be caught up trying to defend, allowing Gay to slash for easy buskets?

[action781]

2) Milwaukee over Indiana- Jason Kidd is bigger and better than Derick Fisher. Kobe is way better than Rip Hamilton. Pietrus is good enough to slow down Maggette and maggette is bad enough on defense that Pietrus should get close to 10 ppg. Nowitzki will absolutely destroy Ty THomas, and Marc Gasol is better than Marcin Gortat, but neither is a particularly amazing defender, so I see Gortat getting 10-12, to Gasol's 17-8. The key here will be who has an easier time; Nowitzki or Kobe, and with Jason Kidd providing the ammunition (and 10 points, 10 assists and 5 or 6 boards himself), Nowitzki has more to work with.

I have a great amount of respect for Milwaukee.  I believe I voted them 2nd or 3rd in the East.

But I'm surprised so many people are considering Indiana out of the running so easily.  I happen to think IP is very on point with his analysis right here, except I'd like to clarify a few things.

"Jason Kidd is bigger and better than Derek Fisher"

OK, maybe some truth here.  What does bigger have anything to do with anything though?  Because Jason Kidd can post up smaller point guards like we've seen him do before?  Correct.  But when was the last time you ever saw Derek Fisher posted up by another pg?  I just asked my friend, he replied, "never".  My answer was the same.  Fisher is a strong dude...

J-Kidd averaged 8ppg in 40+ mpg in last year's first round playoff matchup against T. Parker/G. Hill.  My point guards are not horrendously worse than those 2.  Especially Fisher against a pg like Kidd who Fisher can stay in front of.  If Jack wants any meaningful playing time, Kidd won't play 40 mpg.  Due to that, I don't see Kidd averaging over 8ppg against my team and I don't see ANY reason why Fisher can't score 9 ppg in 32 mpg.  He scored averages of 10.2 (vs. Westbrook), 11.3 (Deron Williams), 11.8 (Nash), and 8.6 ppg (Rondo/Ray) in the ordered rounds of the playoffs last postseason.  I think people are seriously sleeping on how much Fisher steps it up in the playoffs!!  Please reconsider this and I welcome anyone to refute this logic.  Out perform in rebounds and assists?  Perhaps.  Will Kidd outscore Fisher?  Fisher outscored Kidd in last season's playoffs against better defenders in LESS minutes!!  So, I think NOT.  Again, all are welcome to refute.

The reason I gave Milwaukee a matchup advantage at the point was due to Kidd's non-scoring contributions. His superior passing, rebounding and defense in comparison to Derek Fisher.

The scoring should be about even though.

I still see zero reasoning why the scoring would be even.  I truly believe that Fisher would outscore him.  Remember, we're talking about playoffs here.  Check last postseason's scoring #'s and the players he did it against and the minutes he played.  Kidd is not a scorer

[Who]

Sorry, wrong thread ... I'll say something about Stuckey in a second to replace this post.

------------------------------

Rodney Stuckey is a good defensive PG + a good rebounding PG + a solid setup guard offensively + a decent scorer as a fourth option type.

Stuckey is a quality player. A good starter or an elite first guard off the bench.

Rodney Stuckey is one of Charlotte's best weapons in this series. He has a huge advantage of Eric Maynor and when matched up with Brandon Jennings, Stuckey can play him to a standstill (unless Jennings takes a major leap next year).

Also, Stuckey was hurt badly by Detroit's poor coaching job last season. Trying to shove Will Bynum into that rotation hurt Stuckey and it hurt Ben Gordon and it hurt Rip Hamilton. They had a very nice three man backcourt and screwed it all up.

[action781]

2) Milwaukee over Indiana- Jason Kidd is bigger and better than Derick Fisher. Kobe is way better than Rip Hamilton. Pietrus is good enough to slow down Maggette and maggette is bad enough on defense that Pietrus should get close to 10 ppg. Nowitzki will absolutely destroy Ty THomas, and Marc Gasol is better than Marcin Gortat, but neither is a particularly amazing defender, so I see Gortat getting 10-12, to Gasol's 17-8. The key here will be who has an easier time; Nowitzki or Kobe, and with Jason Kidd providing the ammunition (and 10 points, 10 assists and 5 or 6 boards himself), Nowitzki has more to work with.

This doesn't need too much explanation, but moving on to Kobe vs. Hamilton.

Let's just put it this way.  What's Rip Hamilton's best quality he brings to a team?  Probably coming off curl screens and pulling up for mid range jumpers.  Kobe can do it better.  Without a mask.  While contested.  What's Rip's next best asset?  Defense?  Kobe's is a multiple first team all-defense player and better than Rip to an extent that cannot even be quantified or qualified.  What's next?  How good Rip looks in a mask?  I bet Kobe would look better...

How will Kobe help the rest of your team match up with the Bucks however?

On my way home, I'll be writing more and posting when I get home.

[nickagneta]

That's against the best defense in the league. He might not have won the series, and while his team was losing  (and quitting) around him, he might not have had the muster to pick them up, but he didn't lose that series for the Cavs, the kid played his heart out.

The problem is, the "kid" *didn't* play his heart out.  It's ironic that you cite his teammates as quitting, when his former owner (and scores of analysts) said that it's Lebron that gave up.

Kelly Dwyer -- apparently, the smartest man in the NBA -- called Lebron "a crushing failure as a leader", for what it's worth.

If the Boxers can get past the Knicks I just wanted to thank you Roy for some fabulous material to quote from.

 

[Fafnir]

Battier can't really even slow LeBron anymore.

Says whom?

Me.

I'm confused to who else you think I'd be speaking for. Battier is no longer and elite defender, he's down to just a good one.

Even elite defenders man to man defenders don't do much to LeBron, unless they have an elite team defense behind them. Your team lacks that.

[KCattheStripe]

KC, does it concern you that with all the offensive fire power you have that your primary ball handler is more of a scorer than distributor?

A little. However, we've yet to see how Stuckey would fair with a more balanced group of players around him. With what I've seen of him, his passing ability is good enough when there are players with defined roles and proper spacing.

IP, how would you defend a Stuckey-Amare pick and roll? Are you concerned that Lebron could be caught up trying to defend, allowing Gay to slash for easy buskets?

He wouldn't and  IP is very concerned.

[KCattheStripe]

Battier can't really even slow LeBron anymore.

Says whom?

Me.

I'm confused to who else you think I'd be speaking for. Battier is no longer and elite defender, he's down to just a good one.

Even elite defenders man to man defenders don't do much to LeBron, unless they have an elite team defense behind them. Your team lacks that.

I just can't find any analyst or expert who qualifies Battier as just a good defender.

[StartOrien]

KC, does it concern you that with all the offensive fire power you have that your primary ball handler is more of a scorer than distributor?

A little. However, we've yet to see how Stuckey would fair with a more balanced group of players around him. With what I've seen of him, his passing ability is good enough when there are players with defined roles and proper spacing.

IP, how would you defend a Stuckey-Amare pick and roll? Are you concerned that Lebron could be caught up trying to defend, allowing Gay to slash for easy buskets?

He wouldn't and  IP is very concerned.

But for all of Detroit's problems, there is a lot of firepower on that team.

[Fafnir]

2) Milwaukee over Indiana- Jason Kidd is bigger and better than Derick Fisher. Kobe is way better than Rip Hamilton. Pietrus is good enough to slow down Maggette and maggette is bad enough on defense that Pietrus should get close to 10 ppg. Nowitzki will absolutely destroy Ty THomas, and Marc Gasol is better than Marcin Gortat, but neither is a particularly amazing defender, so I see Gortat getting 10-12, to Gasol's 17-8. The key here will be who has an easier time; Nowitzki or Kobe, and with Jason Kidd providing the ammunition (and 10 points, 10 assists and 5 or 6 boards himself), Nowitzki has more to work with.

I have a great amount of respect for Milwaukee.  I believe I voted them 2nd or 3rd in the East.

But I'm surprised so many people are considering Indiana out of the running so easily.  I happen to think IP is very on point with his analysis right here, except I'd like to clarify a few things.

"Jason Kidd is bigger and better than Derek Fisher"

OK, maybe some truth here.  What does bigger have anything to do with anything though?  Because Jason Kidd can post up smaller point guards like we've seen him do before?  Correct.  But when was the last time you ever saw Derek Fisher posted up by another pg?  I just asked my friend, he replied, "never".  My answer was the same.  Fisher is a strong dude...

J-Kidd averaged 8ppg in 40+ mpg in last year's first round playoff matchup against T. Parker/G. Hill.  My point guards are not horrendously worse than those 2.  Especially Fisher against a pg like Kidd who Fisher can stay in front of.  If Jack wants any meaningful playing time, Kidd won't play 40 mpg.  Due to that, I don't see Kidd averaging over 8ppg against my team and I don't see ANY reason why Fisher can't score 9 ppg in 32 mpg.  He scored averages of 10.2 (vs. Westbrook), 11.3 (Deron Williams), 11.8 (Nash), and 8.6 ppg (Rondo/Ray) in the ordered rounds of the playoffs last postseason.  I think people are seriously sleeping on how much Fisher steps it up in the playoffs!!  Please reconsider this and I welcome anyone to refute this logic.  Out perform in rebounds and assists?  Perhaps.  Will Kidd outscore Fisher?  Fisher outscored Kidd in last season's playoffs against better defenders in LESS minutes!!  So, I think NOT.  Again, all are welcome to refute.

The reason I gave Milwaukee a matchup advantage at the point was due to Kidd's non-scoring contributions. His superior passing, rebounding and defense in comparison to Derek Fisher.

The scoring should be about even though.

I still see zero reasoning why the scoring would be even.  I truly believe that Fisher would outscore him.  Remember, we're talking about playoffs here.  Check last postseason's scoring #'s and the players he did it against and the minutes he played.  Kidd is not a scorer

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=kiddja01&y1=2010&p2=fishede01&y2=2010

They scored at comparable rates last season. Kidd failed to score well against the Spurs, who featured a much better defensive match up against him. Besides its a small sample size of 7 games for Kidd, I see no reason he can't score at a similar rate to Fisher.

[StartOrien]

Shane Battier courtesy Ball Don't lie

Battier's defense fell off last season, there's no denying that. But as it's been for years, if you isolate on Shane from possession to possession, on either end, it's a fascinating watch. He's the guy at work who takes a lesser of the two remaining donuts because he knows Steve from accounting is on his way up, and how much that chocolate cake donut would make Steve's day. He's the guy who grabs two carts along the way while returning his cart to the corral. He's the guy who signals early to let the driver at the intersection know it's OK to pull out ahead of him. He's just a considerate, thoughtful player that will no doubt find a way to make it work in Trevor Ariza's(notes) absence this season.