Celtics will regret not re-signing Tony

[GreenFaith1819]

Haha - trust me, BBall - I tried. I could never vouch for his lack of a consistent J. The great thing about TA was that he always made up for it defensively.

Don't get me wrong - If TA was still here, I'd still love him in Green. He left, and DA had to make changes. Him leaving may actually be a blessing in disguise.

Tony Allen chose to leave Boston. It's been speculated as to why he left, but he's gone, by choice. Danny gave him a two-yr window to come back, and he wanted something different or a larger role or something.

As for cheating? I see your point, but no way that Kobe or Lebron or Wade will continuously cheat off of DWest or Wafer or Marquis, not to the same degree as with TA or Rondo. If they do, it'll be their mistake.

This crew simply gives us better options offensively. 

[moiso]

Haha - trust me, BBall - I tried. I could never vouch for his lack of a consistent J. The great thing about TA was that he always made up for it defensively.

Don't get me wrong - If TA was still here, I'd still love him in Green. He left, and DA had to make changes. Him leaving may actually be a blessing in disguise.

Tony Allen chose to leave Boston. It's been speculated as to why he left, but he's gone, by choice. Danny gave him a two-yr window to come back, and he wanted something different or a larger role or something.

As for cheating? I see your point, but no way that Kobe or Lebron or Wade will continuously cheat off of DWest or Wafer or Marquis, not to the same degree as with TA or Rondo. If they do, it'll be their mistake.

This crew simply gives us better options offensively. 

DWest and Wafer are not comparable to Daniels.  West/Wafer are decent shooters.  Daniels is in the TA and Rondo class.  He doesn't have to be guarded from the outside.

[GreenFaith1819]

Haha - trust me, BBall - I tried. I could never vouch for his lack of a consistent J. The great thing about TA was that he always made up for it defensively.

Don't get me wrong - If TA was still here, I'd still love him in Green. He left, and DA had to make changes. Him leaving may actually be a blessing in disguise.

Tony Allen chose to leave Boston. It's been speculated as to why he left, but he's gone, by choice. Danny gave him a two-yr window to come back, and he wanted something different or a larger role or something.

As for cheating? I see your point, but no way that Kobe or Lebron or Wade will continuously cheat off of DWest or Wafer or Marquis, not to the same degree as with TA or Rondo. If they do, it'll be their mistake.

This crew simply gives us better options offensively. 

DWest and Wafer are not comparable to Daniels.  West/Wafer are decent shooters.  Daniels is in the TA and Rondo class.  He doesn't have to be guarded from the outside.

Moiso you are correct - as I look at ESPN Career logs, TA is slightly better FG% than Marquis. I think that is skewed, though, because my memory of TA is mostly as a slasher. Marquis just seemed better with his jumper.

No way in the world that TA was going to slash against LA.

Marquis was playing well for us last year, all the way up to he got injured. He filled in nicely for TA during that period.

I look for Marquis to have a better year this time with a more defined role as well.

[moiso]

Haha - trust me, BBall - I tried. I could never vouch for his lack of a consistent J. The great thing about TA was that he always made up for it defensively.

Don't get me wrong - If TA was still here, I'd still love him in Green. He left, and DA had to make changes. Him leaving may actually be a blessing in disguise.

Tony Allen chose to leave Boston. It's been speculated as to why he left, but he's gone, by choice. Danny gave him a two-yr window to come back, and he wanted something different or a larger role or something.

As for cheating? I see your point, but no way that Kobe or Lebron or Wade will continuously cheat off of DWest or Wafer or Marquis, not to the same degree as with TA or Rondo. If they do, it'll be their mistake.

This crew simply gives us better options offensively. 

DWest and Wafer are not comparable to Daniels.  West/Wafer are decent shooters.  Daniels is in the TA and Rondo class.  He doesn't have to be guarded from the outside.

Moiso you are correct - as I look at ESPN Career logs, TA is slightly better FG% than Marquis. I think that is skewed, though, because my memory of TA is mostly as a slasher. Marquis just seemed better with his jumper.

No way in the world that TA was going to slash against LA.

Marquis was playing well for us last year, all the way up to he got injured. He filled in nicely for TA during that period.

I look for Marquis to have a better year this time with a more defined role as well.

I hope you are right.  I was thrilled when we signed him, but he never got it going.  Even his effort appeared subpar.  It would be a huge plus for the C's if Daniels plays well.

[bruinsandceltics]

BBall - no, they won't cheat off of DWest or Marquis. They can't, now.

  Of course they can, and they will. Teams cheat off of far better players than Delonte to stop elite offensive threats. Look at Cleveland and Orlando, who were near the top of the league in three point shooting. Do you think that teams never cheated towards LeBron or Dwight? They might cheat a little less. Or then again they might not.

In my past arguments for TA, I could never win against those posters that would call TA out for his lack of a J, no matter how much I tried.

  Maybe you just didn't argue the point well.

You know what he meant. Teams certainly can cheat off DWest or Daniels, but they can't send the guy covering them completely off of them and leave them alone like they could with Allen.

[Roy H.]

Some Tony Allen stats, to show you just how bad his jump shot was:

FG% at the rim: 63.5%

FG% inside 10 feet: 28.6%

FG% 10 - 15 feet: 33.3%

FG% 16 - 23 feet: 25.0%

3PT FG%:  0.0%

FT%:  60.5%

Tony's percentage at the rim is respectable enough, but it's hard to express just how horrible all of the other numbers are.

[GreenFaith1819]

And it was the numbers that Roy Hobbs posted that became so apparent to me in that LA series. We made it just too easy for Kobe, and he still shot a low percentage against us.

Let's see him work a little with DWest, Wafer and Marquis on the floor.

This current crew will make it tougher for MIA as well. Let's see DWade chase Rondo, West, Nate, Marquis and Ray around the court. He'll be gassed by the third quarter, just like he was back in April.

Same with Lebron - as great a player he is, he can't guard 3 or 4 spots.

Again - we just have better offensive options, now. TA leaving may be a blessing in disguise.

[More Banners]

At the end of the day - and there is just no getting around this - the more time TA gets on the court, or the bigger the role he assumes, the more his deficiencies on the offenive end are exposed, and the less he helps.  We can check the numbers, compare percentages and averages all day, but we've watched the games and know this to be true. 

As Red used to say, there are only two parts to the game: offense and defense, and players have to play both.  He's a 15 minute per game player, at most, on a decent team.  It just isn't that hard to replace one-dimensional, 15 minute per game players.  In fact, I think at least 2 of the 3 guys who will compete for his minutes could play a larger role and more minutes than TA is capable of playing, and will help us while doing it.

  It's also true that, at the end of the day, none of the players were offered contracts as long or for as much money as TA, even by the Celts. And saying that he's "a 15 minute per game player, at most, on a decent team" is nonsensical when he was playing 16-17 minutes on a team that went to the finals last year.

As far as the number of minutes, arguing 15 vs. 16-17 is flat-out stupid, unless one is merely looking to argue, which is appearing more and more the case.

As far as arguing the quality of the team, it is irrelevant to the point, which is that TA is only a limited-minute backup in the NBA.

[GreenEnvy]

Some Tony Allen stats, to show you just how bad his jump shot was:

FG% at the rim: 63.5%

FG% inside 10 feet: 28.6%

FG% 10 - 15 feet: 33.3%

FG% 16 - 23 feet: 25.0%

3PT FG%:  0.0%

FT%:  60.5%

Tony's percentage at the rim is respectable enough, but it's hard to express just how horrible all of the other numbers are.

Thank you!

I appreciated TA's defense (for the most part) while he was here. It was good-great, and at times excellent. But his overall impact to the game was negated by his horrible offensive game and bone-headed plays he routinely made. People act like he was Scottie Pippen or something. The bigger problem was not finding a suitable backup for Pierce, which I still don't believe TA was. Posey was the defensive stopper for our championship team. He was a much smarter defender who didn't make many mistakes and could actually contribute on offense. That is the type of player we need, not TA.

Memphis will regret the signing more than we will regret not signing him.

[Celtics18]

I'm a huge TA fan who feels like his perimeter defense was under-rated by alot of fans.  I'd say he has turned into a top 5 defender at the shooting guard and small forward positions. 

Having said that, I believe that Danny's decision to let him go may have hinged on the Wallace situation.  With 'Sheed on the second unit last season, you could play TA out there with him and even keep Rondo on the floor at the same time.  This upcoming season, without a floor spreading big coming off the bench, you really couldn't afford to trot TA out there with Shaq and Rondo (who Doc's going to want to play big minutes) all at the same time.  That's just not enough perimeter shooting. 

So replacing 'Sheed with Shaq meant Danny couldn't afford to keep a back up wing who had absolutely no jump shot, no matter how good his D was.

Even Marquis, although certainly not a sharp shooter, has a good enough jumper that he can make teams pay if they ompletely ignore him on the perimeter.

Good luck in Memphis, TA.  I hope everything works out well.

[FatjohnReturns]

Some Tony Allen stats, to show you just how bad his jump shot was:

FG% at the rim: 63.5%

FG% inside 10 feet: 28.6%

FG% 10 - 15 feet: 33.3%

FG% 16 - 23 feet: 25.0%

3PT FG%:  0.0%

FT%:  60.5%

Tony's percentage at the rim is respectable enough, but it's hard to express just how horrible all of the other numbers are.

True but when did Tony have consistent playing time? He either was in the dog house or injured. When he had a steady defined role his confidence improved and he shot better. Too bad that was never for more than 20 games.

[Roy H.]

Some Tony Allen stats, to show you just how bad his jump shot was:

FG% at the rim: 63.5%

FG% inside 10 feet: 28.6%

FG% 10 - 15 feet: 33.3%

FG% 16 - 23 feet: 25.0%

3PT FG%:  0.0%

FT%:  60.5%

Tony's percentage at the rim is respectable enough, but it's hard to express just how horrible all of the other numbers are.

True but when did Tony have consistent playing time? He either was in the dog house or injured. When he had a steady defined role his confidence improved and he shot better. Too bad that was never for more than 20 games.

I thought Tony had a pretty defined role for much of the season.  Also, the thing about bench players is that they need to be able to perform as the situation dictates, and when needed.  Bench players can't use lack of consistent playing time as an excuse.

Here are the month-by-month shooting stats: 

http://www.hoopdata.com/splits.aspx?player=Tony%20Allen

As you can see, he was never exactly good or consistent.

[FatjohnReturns]

Some Tony Allen stats, to show you just how bad his jump shot was:

FG% at the rim: 63.5%

FG% inside 10 feet: 28.6%

FG% 10 - 15 feet: 33.3%

FG% 16 - 23 feet: 25.0%

3PT FG%:  0.0%

FT%:  60.5%

Tony's percentage at the rim is respectable enough, but it's hard to express just how horrible all of the other numbers are.

True but when did Tony have consistent playing time? He either was in the dog house or injured. When he had a steady defined role his confidence improved and he shot better. Too bad that was never for more than 20 games.

I thought Tony had a pretty defined role for much of the season.  Also, the thing about bench players is that they need to be able to perform as the situation dictates, and when needed.  Bench players can't use lack of consistent playing time as an excuse.

Thats unrealistic for some people. Thus the ups and downs of his game. When he is on your not going to get better SF at a 3mill per year. He must understand himself enough to know he needs that consistency to perform well.

After last years playoff run I would have guaranteed him 20 minutes a night backing up Pierce. Frankly Pierce cant handle the minutes so it would have worked fine. Marquis will be exposed and it isnt going to be pretty.

Again its impossible for Ainge to predict the Shaq and Delonte signing so its not on him. No question though its a big loss.

[Roy H.]

Some Tony Allen stats, to show you just how bad his jump shot was:

FG% at the rim: 63.5%

FG% inside 10 feet: 28.6%

FG% 10 - 15 feet: 33.3%

FG% 16 - 23 feet: 25.0%

3PT FG%:  0.0%

FT%:  60.5%

Tony's percentage at the rim is respectable enough, but it's hard to express just how horrible all of the other numbers are.

True but when did Tony have consistent playing time? He either was in the dog house or injured. When he had a steady defined role his confidence improved and he shot better. Too bad that was never for more than 20 games.

I thought Tony had a pretty defined role for much of the season.  Also, the thing about bench players is that they need to be able to perform as the situation dictates, and when needed.  Bench players can't use lack of consistent playing time as an excuse.

Thats unrealistic for some people. Thus the ups and downs of his game. When he is on your not going to get better SF at a 3mill per year. He must understand himself enough to know he needs that consistency to perform well.

After last years playoff run I would have guaranteed him 20 minutes a night backing up Pierce. Frankly Pierce cant handle the minutes so it would have worked fine. Marquis will be exposed and it isnt going to be pretty.

Again its impossible for Ainge to predict the Shaq and Delonte signing so its not on him. No question though its a big loss.

Tony has shown that he's just too inconsistent to give guaranteed time to.  The reason he has so many ups and downs is because he goes through long stretches on not performing.

Also, let's not get carried away with this "Tony as SF" idea.  He played some spot minutes there, and held his own defensively, but he's not a full-time backup SF.  Last season, he played only 1% of the available minutes there.

http://www.82games.com/0910/09BOS6.HTM#bypos

[FatjohnReturns]

Some Tony Allen stats, to show you just how bad his jump shot was:

FG% at the rim: 63.5%

FG% inside 10 feet: 28.6%

FG% 10 - 15 feet: 33.3%

FG% 16 - 23 feet: 25.0%

3PT FG%:  0.0%

FT%:  60.5%

Tony's percentage at the rim is respectable enough, but it's hard to express just how horrible all of the other numbers are.

True but when did Tony have consistent playing time? He either was in the dog house or injured. When he had a steady defined role his confidence improved and he shot better. Too bad that was never for more than 20 games.

I thought Tony had a pretty defined role for much of the season.  Also, the thing about bench players is that they need to be able to perform as the situation dictates, and when needed.  Bench players can't use lack of consistent playing time as an excuse.

Thats unrealistic for some people. Thus the ups and downs of his game. When he is on your not going to get better SF at a 3mill per year. He must understand himself enough to know he needs that consistency to perform well.

After last years playoff run I would have guaranteed him 20 minutes a night backing up Pierce. Frankly Pierce cant handle the minutes so it would have worked fine. Marquis will be exposed and it isnt going to be pretty.

Again its impossible for Ainge to predict the Shaq and Delonte signing so its not on him. No question though its a big loss.

Tony has shown that he's just too inconsistent to give guaranteed time to.  The reason he has so many ups and downs is because he goes through long stretches on not performing.

Also, let's not get carried away with this "Tony as SF" idea.  He played some spot minutes there, and held his own defensively, but he's not a full-time backup SF.  Last season, he played only 1% of the available minutes there.

http://www.82games.com/0910/09BOS6.HTM#bypos

He went thru stretches of not performing either because of injury or being out of the rotation. The whole idea of him being a sub is that he has never been able to produce regularly. If he could he would be starting somewhere. Tony has always been a player who needs playing time to get any consistency to his offensive game. His effort on D has always been there.

What does it matter what happened 2 years ago? He played well at the end of last year and the playoffs. More effort should have been made to bring him back.

With Rondo gambeling as much as he does and a average perimeter defense be ready to see alot of rotating by our back line and alot of dunks by their big guys just like last year.

Oh yeah and at 6'4 220 Tony has the ability to play back up SF.