Celtics will regret not re-signing Tony

[Roy H.]

Poor ball-handling, non-shooting centers who play great defense are more valuable than poor ball-handling, non-shooting shooting guards who play great defense.  Tony's lack of any sort of mid-range or outside offensive game really limited the Celtics' offense in there, which is one reason the team gave up as many points as it scored when he was in there.

No, second unit as a whole got outscored a lot last season. Rasheeed was terrible, Baby was terrible, Marquis was terrible............. But back to the topic. For Pierce & Ray sake, Tony should've been re-signed. With his departure, who now guards Wade, JJ, Lebron, Kobe? Sooner than Later Celtics will find, when they run wild against the Celtics.

People overrate Tony as some sort of defensive stopper of elite stars.  Tony averaged about 16 minutes against the Heat in the playoffs, around 19 against the Cavs, and 14 against the Lakers.  He alone wasn't the reason the Celtics contained Wade, Lebron, and Kobe.  He played a part, but primarily it was the team defense and the outstanding defensive play of Paul Pierce and Ray Allen.

I think Marquis can do almost as good of a job as Tony on defense, and a better job on offense.  I mean, give it whatever weight you want, but statistically the team played better with Marquis in the game than it did with Tony.

[revcummings]

Tony is a great defensive specialist but he wasn't happy with that job! He wants to be a star, which he will never be! I think Tony will regret not re-signing with us more then we will regret re-signing him!

[kozlodoev]

I'd say there's about a 50/50 chance he'll make us look stupid for not offering a little more money.

Ainge made it pretty clear that the reason we weren't able to retain Allen wasn't financial.

[KungPoweChicken]

"BOSTON -- Looks as though the Celtics have themselves a Kobe Stopper.

Celtics guard Tony Allen racked up three DNP-CDs in three games to start the 2008 Finals and played just 19:02 total over the final three games of the series.

Thursday night in the Celtics' crucial 96-89 win over the Lakers to tie up the 2010 Finals 2-2, Allen played 18:27 and may have changed who will win the championship.

• EnlargeKobe Bryant and Tony Allen

Jesse D. Garrabrant/Getty ImagesCeltics guard Tony Allen has given Kobe Bryant fits throughout the Finals.

When the Celtics switched to Tony Allen sticking Kobe Bryant for the second half of Game 4 instead of Ray Allen, who checked him in the first, it was a different ballgame.

Bryant was 5-for-8 from the field in the first half and the Lakers led by three. He was just 5-for-14 in the second half with the guy the Celtics call "T.A." playing textbook defense on him, and the Lakers lost the game by seven. Allen's harassing presence contributed to Kobe coughing up seven turnovers.

"[He's] just a guy that's in the rotation who thinks about nothing but defense, hustling, getting loose balls," said Paul Pierce, who had the assignment, along with James Posey, of guarding Bryant in the Finals two years ago. "Every great team needs a guy like that. He takes so much pressure off me and Ray, the scorers, working so hard to get points."

And he puts that pressure squarely on Bryant.

According to ESPN Stats & Information, Bryant is now just 5-for-19 (26.6 percent) in the Finals with Tony Allen as the Celtics' primary defender on him. Even when he doesn't cause Bryant to miss a shot, he deters him from even taking one. In the 73 possessions that Allen has guarded him this series, Kobe has touched the ball 79.5 percent of the time. In the 234 possessions when it's been somebody other than Allen checking Kobe, Bryant has touched the ball 88 percent of the time.

All 19 shot attempts by Bryant against Allen have been with a hand in his face too, while he's been able to get off eight uncontested looks against the rest of the Celtics' crew.

So how does Allen do it? A 6-4, 213-pound frame with an abundance of athleticism, Allen has the physical ability to keep up with the 6-6, 205-pound Bryant, but really it's what he does on the tactical side of things that makes him a barge that Bryant has difficulty breaking through.

"I think he steps on his right really well, makes him go left and keeps on the floor instead of getting up [in the air] on the pump fakes," Los Angeles coach Phil Jackson said. "He does a good job of that."

Boston defensive guru Tom Thibodeau has molded Allen to embrace cerebral decisions rather than simply relying on athletic actions.

"You definitely can't go for those fakes," Allen said after the game, as pleased as a guy who scored only three points himself can be. "It just comes from watching a lot of film, listening to coach Tom Thibodeau, and being ready to compete, that's how I look at it. I would say I'm more conscious of it with Kobe. If I'm sticking Shannon Brown, if he's getting ready to shoot, he's going to launch. He doesn't have the head-fake shot in his game. Kobe pretty much made a rep[utation] for that, I have to be ready for it at all times."

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You're never going to totally shut down Bryant's offensive assault -- he still scored 33 points in Game 4 -- but you can make it harder on him.

Half of Bryant's 22 attempts in Game 4 were 3-pointers. He made six of them, tying his playoff career high for most makes from downtown in a game, but you'd rather have him launching from 22 feet and beyond where he's shooting 39.6 percent for the playoffs than anywhere in 2-point territory where he's hitting at a 49.1 percent clip in the postseason.

The Celtics had to get through the likes of Dwyane Wade, Vince Carter and LeBron James through the first three rounds just to get an at-bat against Bryant, who Pierce described as "much more difficult [to guard] on the scouting report because of the things he does."

Boston was obviously all about Tony after the game ("Phenomenal tonight with his energy," head coach Doc Rivers said), but maybe even more impressive than his effort on Bryant during the game was the praise he received from Kobe after it.

"He does a great job," Bryant said. "He plays hard, he competes and he's a good solid defender. I'm enjoying it."

ROAD TO REPEAT

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This is coming from the same guy who's been known to get downright dismissive when a defender dares rattle the Mamba's cage in the past, yelling toward TNT broadcaster Doug Collins during a playoff game against Houston last year, "He can't guard me! He can't guard me!" about the Rockets' alleged Kobe Stopper, Shane Battier. And of course everybody remembers how he had "bigger fish to fry" than Phoenix's Raja Bell.

Sure, Bryant let a little bit of his defiant side shine through ("When push comes to shove, I can always get a bucket," he said) and he said he was "pretty comfortable" with the Celtics' defense and "not really too concerned" with the individual Allen matchup, but the numbers don't lie when it comes to how Allen can contain him.

"I actually thought we made it tough," Rivers said. "The guy is Kobe Bryant."

And despite the Big Three, Big Baby, Rajon Rondo and Nate Robinson on Thursday, "the guy" for Boston just might have been Tony Allen."

[Change]

Tony is a great defensive specialist but he wasn't happy with that job! He wants to be a star, which he will never be! I think Tony will regret not re-signing with us more then we will regret re-signing him!

So true. Its delusional of him if he thinks he'll be a star in Memphis. He should have not said those things. Maybe he was just disappointed Celtics didn't make a better effort to re-sign him. His way @ getting back. Players do have egos you know. Both parties lost this battle. Tony Allen won't be heard from again (No ESPN games), and Celtics lose their KoMe stopper.

[Jon]

I think you're overexaggerating his value.  Here are some numbers for you:

77
51
33
75
46
54

Those are the amount of games that TA has played in each season of his career.  So for all the whining about Marquis being injury-prone, it's not like Tony Allen would've been any less of an injury risk. 

And while he was strong, it wasn't like at 6-4 he was going to solve our problem at small forward. 

And given the addition of Delonte and the possibility that Marquis can have a bounce-back year, it's quite possible that even if TA had come back, he might've lost his rotation spot. 

And if Marquis can sub in for him for the next year or two, what does it really matter?  He's hardly a building block for the future.

I get that the Celtics MAY regret not re-signing him, but it's far from a sure thing.   

He might not be less injury prone than Marquis, but he's definitely better.  I'd say there's about a 50/50 chance he'll make us look stupid for not offering a little more money.

Well, I don't know what the chances are, I'm not sure they're 50-50.  And what exactly is going to constitute making us "look stupid"?  Tony averaging double figures in Memphis?  Well, that won't be a surprise.  Most players in the NBA could do that if given the shots and minutes.  Not winning banner #18?  Well unless it comes in a narrow game 7 loss (like this year) where Kobe torches Marquis Daniels, I don't see how you can attribute the loss to TA.  I don't think even the most ardent TA supporter would claim that he would've made a difference if we lose in the second round to Miami.  

I also disagree with the notion that TA is "definitely better" than Marquis.  Over the course of their careers, Marquis has been "definitely better" and it really wasn't until the last few months of the season that TA outplayed Marquis, and even then I don't know how much we can call it "outplaying him" and how much we can call it Doc going with the guy who knew the defensive schemes better.  

While it's certainly possible the Daniels continues to regress and TA excels in Memphis, it's also quite possible that TA reverts to his old self and Marquis starts playing like he did the first 1/3 of last season, when he was quite good.  

Again, I'm not ruling out the possibility that we could regret not bringing TA back.  I just think people many of you are over exaggerating the chances.  

[the_Bird]

Tony is a great defensive specialist but he wasn't happy with that job! He wants to be a star, which he will never be! I think Tony will regret not re-signing with us more then we will regret re-signing him!

So true. Its delusional of him if he thinks he'll be a star in Memphis. He should have not said those things. Maybe he was just disappointed Celtics didn't make a better effort to re-sign him. His way @ getting back. Players do have egos you know.

...  way to completely ignore Tony and Danny Ainge's comments (which were consistent with each other) to fit your own preconceived notions.  Tony wanted a bigger role than he was going to get in Boston.  That's what he said, that's what Danny said.  End of story.  

Now, had Boston come in with a significantly larger contract offer, maybe Tony reconsiders...  but c'mon.  You don't overpay for a 16MPG player.  You don't screw up all the 2012 flexibility you've busted your balls to maintain, to keep around a guy who may well play himself back out of Doc Rivers' rotation.

Everyone's in panic mode that we're short a backup small forward other than Quis...  and ignoring that the playoffs don't start for what, eight months?  If Quis isn't working out in that role come February, you'll see a trade.

[FatjohnReturns]

I think if the Celtics new they would get Shaq and Delonte for what they paid Tony would still be a Celtic today. Tony is worth the contract he got from Memphis. I would have liked to see him stay.

It is true we will struggle to stop Bryant,Lebron,Wade. We dont have anyone with the atleticism to matchup.

[Roy H.]

It is true we will struggle to stop Bryant,Lebron,Wade. We dont have anyone with the atleticism to matchup.

Maybe off the bench; that remains to be seen.  Among starters, though, Paul and Ray did a great job on those guys.

[vinnie]

What are people missing here? Money had nothing to do with TA going to Memphis. He was sick of being in the shadow of great players. Goood luck in Memphis TA. The Celts will be a much better team this year despite the fact they did not sign TA.

[Change]

Maybe off the bench; that remains to be seen.  Among starters, though, Paul and Ray did a great job on those guys.

@ Roy, Do you think at this point of their career Ray & Pierce play the kind defense this team needs, and still be able to produce offensively? If last season was any indication, Celtics are in for a rude awakening.

[Roy H.]

Maybe off the bench; that remains to be seen.  Among starters, though, Paul and Ray did a great job on those guys.

@ Roy, Do you think at this point of their career Ray & Pierce play the kind defense this team needs, and still be able to produce offensively? If last season was any indication, Celtics are in for a rude awakening.

The Celtics lost their starting center in Game 6, but still came within 6 minutes of an NBA title.  They've since upgraded.  I think they'll be fine; they're still clearly one to the top three teams in the NBA.

With the injury to Perk and the departure of Tony, the defense will probably be a little better.  However, the offense should also be appreciably better; Tony only averaged 3.6 ppg in the Lakers series, for instance.

[Change]

Maybe off the bench; that remains to be seen.  Among starters, though, Paul and Ray did a great job on those guys.

@ Roy, Do you think at this point of their career Ray & Pierce play the kind defense this team needs, and still be able to produce offensively? If last season was any indication, Celtics are in for a rude awakening.

The Celtics lost their starting center in Game 6, but still came within 6 minutes of an NBA title.  They've since upgraded.  I think they'll be fine; they're still clearly one to the top three teams in the NBA.

With the injury to Perk and the departure of Tony, the defense will probably be a little better.  However, the offense should also be appreciably better; Tony only averaged 3.6 ppg in the Lakers series, for instance.

Perkins AVG 5.8ppg in that series also. So I don't understand that point. Tony like Perk aren't scorers.  Last season offense was Celtics Achilles heel, but yet they almost won the championship without Homecourt advantage in 3 rounds. This season defense will be their Achilles heel, will see how far that takes them. Its a cliche but defense win you championships. Celtics will lack defense this season.

[Roy H.]

Maybe off the bench; that remains to be seen.  Among starters, though, Paul and Ray did a great job on those guys.

@ Roy, Do you think at this point of their career Ray & Pierce play the kind defense this team needs, and still be able to produce offensively? If last season was any indication, Celtics are in for a rude awakening.

The Celtics lost their starting center in Game 6, but still came within 6 minutes of an NBA title.  They've since upgraded.  I think they'll be fine; they're still clearly one to the top three teams in the NBA.

With the injury to Perk and the departure of Tony, the defense will probably be a little better.  However, the offense should also be appreciably better; Tony only averaged 3.6 ppg in the Lakers series, for instance.

Perkins AVG 5.8ppg in that series also. So I don't understand that point. Tony like Perk aren't scorers.  Last season offense was Celtics Achilles heel, but yet they almost won the championship without Homecourt advantage in 3 rounds. This season defense will be their Achilles heel, will see how far that takes them. Its a cliche but defense win you championships.

The Celtics defense will be fine.  Tony Allen wasn't the linchpin for our defense, he was just another guy out of many who played good D.  However, replacing some of that D with more efficient offense should yield the same net results.

[FatjohnReturns]

It is true we will struggle to stop Bryant,Lebron,Wade. We dont have anyone with the atleticism to matchup.

Maybe off the bench; that remains to be seen.  Among starters, though, Paul and Ray did a great job on those guys.

Paul struggled with Artest and Lebron killed Paul. Paul plays so hard that by the end of the year he is hurting. To his credit we dont hear about his injuries but no doubt he was not the same player he was at the start of the year. His footspeed these last couple years has decreased dramatically.

I like Rays defense on Lebron. We didnt get to see it enough. He seems to really frustrate bron bron. Ray on Wade is average Wade has got Rays number.

Neither Paul or Ray can cover Kobe. Ray does ok but usually ends up racking up fouls quickly and we need Ray on the floor.

Basically I think Paul and Ray did ok not great but ok. Moving forward though it wont be pretty when we matchup with permier shooting guards and small forwards. You really cant expect Marquis to be able to muscle,run and jump up and meet these guys at the rim like Tony could. Its a big loss. Thankfully the Delonte signing will make up for some of the shortcomings. My guess is as the season goes on it will become a more pressing problem.