Official Discuss your CB Draft team

[KCattheStripe]

Some preliminary rankings ... for the East

Atlantic Division

#1 - New York Knicks - contender
#2 - Boston Celtics
#3 - Toronto Raptors
#4 - New Jersey Nets - lottery team

I am not sure who is on Phily's roster. So I left them out for now.

Central Division

#1 - Chicago - contender
#2 - Indiana
#3 - Milwaukee
#4/#5 - Cleveland / Detroit

It's been awhile since Indiana's roster has been updated so they might fall or rise, or stay exactly where they are, depending on their moves since then. They had a very nice foundation (Kobe, Pietrus, Tyrus, M.Gasol) to work with at their last update.

Southeast Division

#1 - Orlando - contender
#2 - Washington - contender
#3 - Atlanta
#4 - Miami
#5 - Charlotte/Seattle

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So, I think there are four contenders in the East. Chicago, New York, Orlando and Washington.

Us at 5th in our division is just silly.

The bottom three teams in that division are fairly close to one another. In the same tier overall. The order doesn't have much bearing.

I'll look at it closer to see if I'd switch the rankings.

Charlotte/Seattle

• Starters - Duhon + Stuckey + Gay + Amare + Okafor
• Reserves - AJ Price + Battier + Young (Thaddeus Young?) + DeJuan Blair ... Head + Damien Wilkins + Tolliver

I am not a fan of Emeka Okafor. I thought he played poorly for the Hornets last season. His defense has dropped off in a large way. I didn't like seeing his minutes did below 30mpg either (health?). I didn't he had much of an impact in New Orleans last season in terms of wins.

Blair and Amare are both bad defensive players. Amare is also a below par rebounder and non-passer and I would expect his offensive game to suffer without a playmaker and without being in a fast paced offense (who is the head coach?). Blair played very well in the regular season but struggled mightily on both ends of the floor (rebounding was superb though) in the playoffs which lowered him in my estimation.  

Rudy Gay is a very good player in the long term but he still has a lot of issues to work through in the short term (upping his rebounding, defense and scoring efficiency). Still not an All-Star caliber player. Duhon and Stuckey are an unimpressive starting backcourt, AJ Price is suspect lead backup guard.

Shane Battier is an elite role player and quite possibly the second best player on this team (behind Amare and slightly ahead of Gay). Thaddeus Young is a good combo forward.

Miami Heat

• Starters - Nash + S.Brown + S-Jax + Frye + Odom
• reserves - Lou Williams + J.Moon + C.Andersen ... A.Carter

With Steve Nash at the throttle + a perimeter shooting big in Frye + a multi-talented big man in Odom + a versatile wing in Stephen Jackson ... I would expect this team to have a very effective offense.

They have a respectable amount of amount of defense (Odom and Jackson high quality defenders + Brown, Frye, Andersen and Moon are serviceable), likely slightly below average defensively, but are very poor on the backboards (league worst?).

Atlanta Hawks

• Starters - Hinrich + Redick + Durant + Varejao + Okur
• Reserves - Ridnour + R.Butler + R.Gomes + Brand ... S.Livingston + S.Graham + Udoh + Whiteside + Boone

Kevin Durant is the best player in the division. Anderson Varejao is an impact player. A solid backcourt in Hinrich and Redick. I don't like the rest of the big men in the rotation. Butler is a good backup two guard. Ridnour a good backup PG. Ryan Gomes a decent combo forward.

Conclusion

Steve Nash and Kevin Durant both have huge impacts on their squads. I think the Bobcats/Sonics fall back in comparison to them because their two elite talents (Gay, Amare) fail to do likewise. As does their third best talent (Okafor). The Heat and Hawks also get strong contributions from Odom and Varejao.

I would keep the rankings the same.

I think we absolutely throttle the Heat on the inside where they're just not big enough to handle us, they can shoot their jumpers all day, but they have no one who can body up Amar'e or even Okafor for that matter and they don't have a player to stay in front of Stuckey.

A note about Stuckey, the past three years he has steadily improved getting himself 17pppg with 5 dimes last year. Detroit is terrible because they have such a muddled back court full of redundancies ( Gordon, Rip, Stuckey) that lead to ineffeciencies. However, paired with Duhon, who can play off the ball and be a bargain derek fischer offensively, those redundancies wouldn't be there.

I will say that I think we could give Atlanta the hardest time in the division because A) We have two capable defenders to throw at Durant in Gay and Battier, they also don't have the horses to win the battle inside with us. They have two gifted defensive guards, but all we have to do is run pick and rolls over and over again and they won't have the defenders to keep up with us.

I think you vastly underrate the entirety of my line up Who. Okafor didn't contribute much to New Orleans last year because they were a terrible team and he simply can't be the 2nd best player on a team. When Paul went down and DWest regressing ( as you noted earlier) that's what he was. But I would note, that in less minutes he produced roughly the same.

Rudy Gay's defense is vastly underrated on this blog, but in my fairly extensive observations he is an all NBA defender when he chooses to be and an above average defender when he doesn't.

Dejuan Blair wilted against the Mavs a bit, The entire Spurs did, and it's not unreasonable for a rookie to have a bad first playoff series.

Amar'e's ( That's an awkward amount of apostrophes) game doesn't benefit as much from an uptempo system as much as it does a constant barrage of pick and rolls, which our Coach Eric Spolstra showed he'd be willing to do if it was working. And while 9 rebounds a game may disappoint some, next to Emeka and Blair, it's perfectly fine. Amar'e suffers a lot from the " He should be better" syndrome fans have and thus his substantive defensive contribution get overlooked because he's not a top 3 defender at his position.


It is so important to look at how these players function as a team together and not how they performed last season on their former teams. I think One of the strengths of my team is how individuals skill sets cover for one another's weaknesses.

Thats all until the presser.

On Rudy's defense

I agree that Rudy's defense is under-rated. He has improved quite a bit over the last two years. I also agree that he is capable of being one of the best defensive players in the league at his position. Unfortunately, he hasn't put in the effort + focus consistently enough to achieve that yet ... which is why I only regard him as a slightly above average defender (at the moment).

That is part of the reason (along with effort on the boards + unimpressive scoring efficiency + he is a non-passer) why I feel that he is a terrific long term prospect ... but currently not worthy of being an All-Star player.

I don't feel your squad has enough defensive quality for Rudy to see a large immediate bump in his defensive effort/focus. In large part because I don't rate Emeka Okafor as a high quality defender anymore.

Emeka Okafor + Amare Stoudemire

We'll just have to agree to disagree here. On Okafor's value as a player + Amare's non-scoring contributions.

Rodney Stuckey + Lineups

I like Rodney Stuckey a great deal more as a combo guard off the bench than as a starting shooting guard. I think that gives your squad the best overall balance.

I am a big fan of Rudy Gay + Shane Battier starting alongside one another. I think Battier's superb defense and Rudy's athleticism, solid defense and defensive potential will help provide cover for your big man's lack of collective defense. I also prefer the rebounding bump you'll get.

On Stuckey, I like him better as a point guard than a two guard. He has become a very capable defensive player at the position and a solid setup point guard (not a playmaker, not a creative passer, just a guy who initiates the offense). The part about his scoring that I dislike is his lack of efficiency (TS% 48% last season, 49% for career). So he is a volume scorer.

I think his defensive / rebounding  impact is significantly lowered by playing the SG instead of the PG + I think Stuckey will be more effective offensively going against bench players rather than starters. I thought he showed flashes of being a major game changer in this role as a rookie in Detroit and I think he could fulfill that potential on your roster in that role.

So, if you made that change to your lineup, I would like your team significantly more.

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Also, I agree and disagree on Detroit's backcourt.

I think Stuckey, Rip and Ben Gordon is a very effective combination.

I do, however, agree that the Pistons screwed that up by trying to fit Will Bynum into the rotation + I agree that Will Bynum hurt Stuckey's game + hurt Stuckey's development. And likewise hurt Ben Gordon and Rip Hamilton also.

Oh Who, that wasn't my lineup. Ask WW and IP, I've been talking about the Duhon, Battier, Gay , Amar'e , Okafor line up for a while.

[nickagneta]

Nick, you don't think my starting SF will cut it?  Pietrus is a terrific wing defender and a good shooter.  Wouldn't he cut it for the current Orlando Magic?  He actually might be starting for them.  If he can start for a real NBA contender, he can obviously start for a less top heavy CBNBA contender.  I also have a very solid bench player in Korver behind him.

Well, unlike some here, I'm not in love with Pietrus' defense. It can be quite good. It can also not be there when he decides not to show up mentally for a game. He might also be the starter for the Magic by default because they decided to not resign Matt Barnes.

He also might not start and could be the 9th or 10th player in that rotation if Van Gundy decides to start Bass, move Lewis to SF and places Quentin Richardson ahead of him on the depth charts. I find Pietrus to be a pretty decent wing role player off the bench. As a starter, I think he's quite poor.

[Who]

Oh Who, that wasn't my lineup. Ask WW and IP, I've been talking about the Duhon, Battier, Gay , Amar'e , Okafor line up for a while.

Ah sorry, I saw the posts where you were debating those lineups but I thought you went with Stuckey as a starting SG in the end. 

[StartOrien]

IS anyone in charge of the Mavericks?

[Ohio Celtics Fan]

Thoughts on my team now that it's finalized?

Coach: Avery Johnson

PG: George Hill / Nate Robinson
SG: Dwyane Wade / Gerald Henderson / Christian Eyenga
SF: Grant Hill/ Paul George / Earl Clark
PF: Kenyon Martin / Jordan Hill / (Earl Clark)
C: Greg Oden / Kurt Thomas / Hilton Armstrong

[nickagneta]

Thoughts on my team now that it's finalized?

Coach: Avery Johnson

PG: George Hill / Nate Robinson
SG: Dwyane Wade / Gerald Henderson / Christian Eyenga
SF: Grant Hill/ Paul George / Earl Clark
PF: Kenyon Martin / Jordan Hill / (Earl Clark)
C: Greg Oden / Kurt Thomas / Hilton Armstrong

If Oden is healthy, and like Yao and Przybilla there's a lot of doubt about that, and can stay healthy, I think there's even more doubt about this, you have an excellent starting five. George Hill is a perfect compliment to D Wade in the backcourt, Grant Hill can still ball for a good 25-27 minutes a night at an extremely high level and Martin and Odom are a great defensive/rebounding frontcourt tandem.

Your problem is your bench. It's loaded with unproven rookies and second year players. Thomas is old and close to done and Hilton Armstrong is terrible. Nate Robinson is your only good player coming off your bench and the problem there is you need your best bench player at the SF position due to Grant Hill's inability to play long minutes over a full season.

I think your starters propel you into the second round of the playoffs but that the Knicks will falter there due to exhaustion from overuse of the starters and lack of good bench depth.

[indeedproceed]

Thoughts on my team now that it's finalized?

Coach: Avery Johnson

PG: George Hill / Nate Robinson
SG: Dwyane Wade / Gerald Henderson / Christian Eyenga
SF: Grant Hill/ Paul George / Earl Clark
PF: Kenyon Martin / Jordan Hill / (Earl Clark)
C: Greg Oden / Kurt Thomas / Hilton Armstrong

If Oden is healthy, and like Yao and Przybilla there's a lot of doubt about that, and can stay healthy, I think there's even more doubt about this, you have an excellent starting five. George Hill is a perfect compliment to D Wade in the backcourt, Grant Hill can still ball for a good 25-27 minutes a night at an extremely high level and Martin and Odom are a great defensive/rebounding frontcourt tandem.

Your problem is your bench. It's loaded with unproven rookies and second year players. Thomas is old and close to done and Hilton Armstrong is terrible. Nate Robinson is your only good player coming off your bench and the problem there is you need your best bench player at the SF position due to Grant Hill's inability to play long minutes over a full season.

I think your starters propel you into the second round of the playoffs but that the Knicks will falter there due to exhaustion from overuse of the starters and lack of good bench depth.

Regarding Greg Oden...if he's allowed to fully recover before going back (which in real life is a given, that's why they have Pryzbilla and Camby), the only thing you can say about Oden is that he has bad luck. His injuries are a lot less likely to keep him out next season, because every injury he's had has been different. His injuries aren't chronic like the ones that ended Jonathan Bender's career or Allan Houston, or are putting Yao's in jeopardy.

Also I like Paul George behind Grant Hill. I don't know how good he'll be but asking a scoring talented 3 as a rookie to step in (while being mentored by the unofficial ambassador of class and professionalism for the NBA, Grant Hill) for 20-24 mins a night seems reasonable on a 2nd tier team.

[Who]

Thoughts on my team now that it's finalized?

Coach: Avery Johnson

PG: George Hill / Nate Robinson
SG: Dwyane Wade / Gerald Henderson / Christian Eyenga
SF: Grant Hill/ Paul George / Earl Clark
PF: Kenyon Martin / Jordan Hill / (Earl Clark)
C: Greg Oden / Kurt Thomas / Hilton Armstrong

Best defensive team in the league + a quality rebounding team.

Offensively, too over-reliant on Dwyane Wade but your defense will still give you a good chance at beating anyone and everyone. As Greg Oden and Paul George improve, the offense will correct itself and you'll be the frontrunner in the East for many years to come.

[Redz]

Thoughts on my team now that it's finalized?

Coach: Avery Johnson

PG: George Hill / Nate Robinson
SG: Dwyane Wade / Gerald Henderson / Christian Eyenga
SF: Grant Hill/ Paul George / Earl Clark
PF: Kenyon Martin / Jordan Hill / (Earl Clark)
C: Greg Oden / Kurt Thomas / Hilton Armstrong

Best defensive team in the league + a quality rebounding team.

Offensively, too over-reliant on Dwyane Wade but your defense will still give you a good chance at beating anyone and everyone. As Greg Oden and Paul George improve, the offense will correct itself and you'll be the frontrunner in the East for many years to come.

Grant Hill, Oden and Kenyon Martin are three of the most famously injury prone players in the league.  If they can hold up you've got a tough team.  A lot of grit there.

[KCattheStripe]

Thoughts on my team now that it's finalized?

Coach: Avery Johnson

PG: George Hill / Nate Robinson
SG: Dwyane Wade / Gerald Henderson / Christian Eyenga
SF: Grant Hill/ Paul George / Earl Clark
PF: Kenyon Martin / Jordan Hill / (Earl Clark)
C: Greg Oden / Kurt Thomas / Hilton Armstrong

Best defensive team in the league + a quality rebounding team.

Offensively, too over-reliant on Dwyane Wade but your defense will still give you a good chance at beating anyone and everyone. As Greg Oden and Paul George improve, the offense will correct itself and you'll be the frontrunner in the East for many years to come.

Grant Hill, Oden and Kenyon Martin are three of the most famously injury prone players in the league.  If they can hold up you've got a tough team.  A lot of grit there.

Not an "if" but a when, and that's when this falls apart.

[mgent]

Thoughts on my team now that it's finalized?

Coach: Avery Johnson

PG: George Hill / Nate Robinson
SG: Dwyane Wade / Gerald Henderson / Christian Eyenga
SF: Grant Hill/ Paul George / Earl Clark
PF: Kenyon Martin / Jordan Hill / (Earl Clark)
C: Greg Oden / Kurt Thomas / Hilton Armstrong

Best defensive team in the league + a quality rebounding team.

Offensively, too over-reliant on Dwyane Wade but your defense will still give you a good chance at beating anyone and everyone. As Greg Oden and Paul George improve, the offense will correct itself and you'll be the frontrunner in the East for many years to come.

I think my team has a better defense than this team.

[indeedproceed]

I agree with mgent....and his team isn't even the best defensive squad.

[Who]

Thoughts on my team now that it's finalized?

Coach: Avery Johnson

PG: George Hill / Nate Robinson
SG: Dwyane Wade / Gerald Henderson / Christian Eyenga
SF: Grant Hill/ Paul George / Earl Clark
PF: Kenyon Martin / Jordan Hill / (Earl Clark)
C: Greg Oden / Kurt Thomas / Hilton Armstrong

Best defensive team in the league + a quality rebounding team.

Offensively, too over-reliant on Dwyane Wade but your defense will still give you a good chance at beating anyone and everyone. As Greg Oden and Paul George improve, the offense will correct itself and you'll be the frontrunner in the East for many years to come.

I think my team has a better defense than this team.

I have your team in second place defensively.

Clips:

Ben Wallace, Yi Jianlian, Vladimir Radmanovic
Kevin Garnett, Reggie Evans
Shawn Marion, Andres Nocioni, Larry Hughes
Jason Richardson, Anthony Parker
Chauncey Billups, Carlos Arroyo, Sundiata Gaines

I prefer the Knicks big man combination of Greg Oden and Kenyon Martin over KG and Big Men. I like the size and power, the physical presence, that Oden brings to the table.

Shawn Marion is the best perimeter defender on either team. He had a hugely under-rated season last year on the defensive end of the floor. Grant Hill is a solid defender but nowhere near the exceptional talents of Shawn Marion. Big plus in LA's favour.

I rate George Hill as one of the finest defensive point guards in the league and have that in NY's favour. I also think Dwyane Wade is a very good defensive player and excellent team defender. I love the Knicks athleticism and quickness on help defense in the backcourt. The Clippers have good size and strength in the backcourt but lack the explosiveness of the Knicks. The Knicks duo can cover more ground and create more havoc off the ball. I think this is a big advantage in NY's favour.

Overall, I think it's arguable which team has the better starters defensively ... I have a slight preference towards the Knicks though.

Turning to the bench, the Clippers backup big men (R.Evans, Yi) are very poor defensive players while Kurt Thomas is a solid defensive center and Jordan Hill made major strides defensively by the end of his rookie season. That is a big factor in the Knicks favour especially since Big Ben's and KG's minutes have a ceiling on them (Oden does too, but he has a more competent backup).

Onto the reserves on the perimeter, Nocioni is another very poor defender while Vladamir Radmanovic is below average. Larry Hughes is highly inconsistent defender but capable of playing solid defense. Anthony Parker is slightly below average but serviceable. The Knicks have a solid defender in Gerald Henderson and an unknown (in the immediate sense) in Paul George who has good defensive potential. Earl Clark is a poor defender with good potential. I don't know anything about Eyenga. Carlos Arroyo is a mediocre defender while Nate Robinson is a poor one.

In summary, I think the bench is in NY's favour mainly because of the backup big men and give that the deciding vote against LAC because of KG's + Big Ben's minutes playable.

[Who]

I agree with mgent....and his team isn't even the best defensive squad.

Who do you have ranked as the best defensive squad?

[indeedproceed]

I think there are 3 to 4 teams that tier out at about the same. utah (assuming health) comes to mind. so does chicago (duh)..i will give a full account tomorrow though