Official Discuss your CB Draft team

[celticpride07]

I will just say that I respectfully disagree with this analysis.  I personally don't think Golden State or the Lakers are all that good, and I don't see any way that either could be considered a contender.

i agree with the golden state part, they are not close..i disagree with the lakers though i think my team is good.

[Greenbean]

I agree with much of the analysis on the NW division. The only thing I would say is the OKC Thundah and their depth at EVERY position are being undersold.

I implore you to take another look. I think they could be a playoff team with relative ease. A great defensive team as well.

[indeedproceed]

trust me im worried about Kobe, but he better be worried about Rip, Maggette, and Dirk.  Dirk would eat that team for breakfast lunch and dinner

I think Rip, Maggette, he shouldn't worry about. Rip hasn't been the same player since he was injured (could be a moral thing, who knows), and Pietrus should be able to contain Maggette.

Dirk on Ty Thomas though is going to be rough.

I've already began wondering what I'm going to do about 'Ze German'.

Id also consider Jarret Jack vs Johnny Flynn to be pretty big in my favor

Not so big that it tips tables any which way. Its not like either guy is going to be heavily relied on in the rotation.

[Who]

If anyone wants to do some team rankings that would be a cool thing to discuss.

I'd do another division besides my own.

Ok do my division.

At a quick glance I would rate the teams as following:

(1) Utah = 60+ win roster
(2) Minnesota = 48-52 wins
(3) Denver = 44-47 wins
(4) Oklahoma = 34-38 wins
(5) Portland = 25 wins

I think substantially less of Utah because I don't think Yao will ever be healthy enough to win that many games and I don't like a 2 guard rotation of Casspi and Galls because I'm not sure they have the handles to play the position, Unlike Rudy whom I spent a better part of 3 pages defending at the 2.

The Jazz have Jose Calderon + two low post threats (high usage highly talented offensive players).

The ball-handling responsibilities on either of their wing players will be fairly limited. 

I am a big fan of Casspi as a two guard (his natural position in my eyes) but I'm not wild about Gallinari there. I would have Wesley Johnson defend the two and keep Gallo at the three while Casspi is resting. In some instances, maybe even Mbah a Moute defend the two while Gallo or Wesley defends the four (depending on matchups).

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If Yao Ming is not healthy, hmmm ...

Starters: Jose + Casspi + Wesley + Pau + Robin
Rotation: N/A + Gallo + Mbah a Moute + C.Smith

Pau Gasol would be double up as my starting power forward (20mpg) and my backup center (18mpg). Robin Lopez would play about 30mpg. My backup power forwards, Mbah a Moute would be the rotation regular (20mpg) but Craig Smith (8mpg) would get more court time when facing the more physical opponents.

Jose Calderon would play 30-32 minutes as a starter so the backup PG would play a fair bit. I don't like Jose playing more minutes than that because I think he begins to break down over the course of a season.

Casspi would be playing 32-35 minutes a night as a starting two guard. Wesley would hopefully be good for 30+ minutes himself. He would be the starting three and double up as the backup two guard (13-18mpg). That would leave 35 minutes available at the three which would mostly go to Gallinari (25-30) but Mbah a Moute could get more court time if the squad required more of a stopper there than an offensive player.

Okay, so with that description, I would expect the Jazz to win around 53-56 games next season. I'd drop them back to the 50 win range if they fail to find a serviceable backup PG (more if I factor in a Jose injury which would likely be an unfortunate consequence).

I think that their length will be a problem for a lot of people. The way my team would counter that would be to run early and often negating their size advantage. We would pressure Calderon and make him pass the ball to their wings which forces people with poor handle to handle the ball.
In my opinion that would be the recipe to beat them.

A couple points here (sorry i'm late to the discussion) ---

Yao -- i agree that while an imposing lineup on paper, (a) Yao has to prove he can make it through a full season and (b) until he does there has to be an expectation that as with 4 of the last 5 seasons he'll play fewer than 57 games....(and I have him in my Roto keeper league so i'm hoping he will play a full season)

Casspi --I'm no expert but i"ve not seen anything that indicates Casspi is a SG. Unless Don can find some documentation/proof I'll take this as a stretch... not a viable option. He's 6-9 and know that the games he started KMartin, Evans (with Udrih at PG) or Greene (even though he's actually taller, but quicker) started at SG. There is no way Casspi can keep up with small quick 2guards in the Midwest like MThornton, Turner, or Beabuois. Sure he'll have a mismatch on the other end, but with Yao/Pau in the middle there's not a lot of room.

(I personally put stock in other SBNation blogs like our beloved Celticsblog -- since they're written by maniacs like us about their own teams... This recent article (by their version of our Jeff Clark) says Greene & Casspi are in a battle for the SF position (with Udrih, Tyreke Evans and Garcia the backcourt rotation):

Fastbreak/size -- Agree with Evantime... our strategy vs. the big Utah lineup is gonna be to get out and run -- and with nimble bigs like Gibson and Singleton + long wings like Ariza, CHildress and Brewer we won't have to sacrifice much size.

Calderon -- He's jsut awful on defense and I think the fact that there's no way he's gonna be able to keep guys like Westbrook and Deron Williams out of the paint will greatly reduce the defensive effectiveness of UTA's bigs (who will have to help in the lane). Dwill and WB/Blake are gonna find the open big.

Casspi

Casspi defended two guards a fair bit last year and was very successful against them. He has good athleticism and excellent size/length which is difficult to play against. If you look at 82games.com you can see some of his opponent stats there (about 20% of his time at the two).

The reason why Casspi is better off as a SG rather than a SF is because he is a finesse defender. He has trouble against the more physical wings in the league but otherwise is a good defender. Matched up against smaller wings this becomes a much smaller issue. Offensively, there is little difference between two positions for him and his rebounding becomes a larger advantage too (relatively speaking, relative to his opponent).

The Sacramento Kings should be looking at Casspi as a shooting guard rather than a small forward. They are making a mistake by keeping him at a three.

Jose Calderon

Jose Calderon is a poor defender but how bad he is defensively is over-stated because of Toronto's horrific team defense (read: Andrea Bargnani ... also Jay Triano).

On a quality defensive team, like the Jazz are, Calderon's defensive frailties will be a much smaller issue than they have appeared to be over the last couple of years in Toronto.

[Roy H.]

I will just say that I respectfully disagree with this analysis.  I personally don't think Golden State or the Lakers are all that good, and I don't see any way that either could be considered a contender.

i agree with the golden state part, they are not close..i disagree with the lakers though i think my team is good.

My biggest question with your team is Beasley starting at power forward, followed by your backup center situation.  I also wonder if Curry is ready to be a big-time playoff performer.

I think your team could be a playoff contender (which is why "not that good" comes across overly harshly), but I don't think you can win a title.

[StartOrien]

I thought Golden State came out of the gates firing, and then kinda hit a lull. Surprised didn't reach on a big.

[celticpride07]

I will just say that I respectfully disagree with this analysis.  I personally don't think Golden State or the Lakers are all that good, and I don't see any way that either could be considered a contender.

i agree with the golden state part, they are not close..i disagree with the lakers though i think my team is good.

My biggest question with your team is Beasley starting at power forward, followed by your backup center situation.  I also wonder if Curry is ready to be a big-time playoff performer.


I think your team could be a playoff contender (which is why "not that good" comes across overly harshly), but I don't think you can win a title.

Curry seems to be performing well in a big time stage of FIBA World Championship, with the pressure of failing for an entire country!

[Who]

Some preliminary rankings ... for the East

Atlantic Division

#1 - New York Knicks - contender
#2 - Boston Celtics
#3 - Toronto Raptors
#4 - New Jersey Nets - lottery team

I am not sure who is on Phily's roster. So I left them out for now.

Central Division

#1 - Chicago - contender
#2 - Indiana
#3 - Milwaukee
#4/#5 - Cleveland / Detroit

It's been awhile since Indiana's roster has been updated so they might fall or rise, or stay exactly where they are, depending on their moves since then. They had a very nice foundation (Kobe, Pietrus, Tyrus, M.Gasol) to work with at their last update.

Southeast Division

#1 - Orlando - contender
#2 - Washington - contender
#3 - Atlanta
#4 - Miami
#5 - Charlotte/Seattle

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So, I think there are four contenders in the East. Chicago, New York, Orlando and Washington.

Us at 5th in our division is just silly.

The bottom three teams in that division are fairly close to one another. In the same tier overall. The order doesn't have much bearing.

I'll look at it closer to see if I'd switch the rankings.

Charlotte/Seattle

• Starters - Duhon + Stuckey + Gay + Amare + Okafor
• Reserves - AJ Price + Battier + Young (Thaddeus Young?) + DeJuan Blair ... Head + Damien Wilkins + Tolliver

I am not a fan of Emeka Okafor. I thought he played poorly for the Hornets last season. His defense has dropped off in a large way. I didn't like seeing his minutes did below 30mpg either (health?). I didn't he had much of an impact in New Orleans last season in terms of wins.

Blair and Amare are both bad defensive players. Amare is also a below par rebounder and non-passer and I would expect his offensive game to suffer without a playmaker and without being in a fast paced offense (who is the head coach?). Blair played very well in the regular season but struggled mightily on both ends of the floor (rebounding was superb though) in the playoffs which lowered him in my estimation.  

Rudy Gay is a very good player in the long term but he still has a lot of issues to work through in the short term (upping his rebounding, defense and scoring efficiency). Still not an All-Star caliber player. Duhon and Stuckey are an unimpressive starting backcourt, AJ Price is suspect lead backup guard.

Shane Battier is an elite role player and quite possibly the second best player on this team (behind Amare and slightly ahead of Gay). Thaddeus Young is a good combo forward.

Miami Heat

• Starters - Nash + S.Brown + S-Jax + Frye + Odom
• reserves - Lou Williams + J.Moon + C.Andersen ... A.Carter

With Steve Nash at the throttle + a perimeter shooting big in Frye + a multi-talented big man in Odom + a versatile wing in Stephen Jackson ... I would expect this team to have a very effective offense.

They have a respectable amount of amount of defense (Odom and Jackson high quality defenders + Brown, Frye, Andersen and Moon are serviceable), likely slightly below average defensively, but are very poor on the backboards (league worst?).

Atlanta Hawks

• Starters - Hinrich + Redick + Durant + Varejao + Okur
• Reserves - Ridnour + R.Butler + R.Gomes + Brand ... S.Livingston + S.Graham + Udoh + Whiteside + Boone

Kevin Durant is the best player in the division. Anderson Varejao is an impact player. A solid backcourt in Hinrich and Redick. I don't like the rest of the big men in the rotation. Butler is a good backup two guard. Ridnour a good backup PG. Ryan Gomes a decent combo forward.

Conclusion

Steve Nash and Kevin Durant both have huge impacts on their squads. I think the Bobcats/Sonics fall back in comparison to them because their two elite talents (Gay, Amare) fail to do likewise. As does their third best talent (Okafor). The Heat and Hawks also get strong contributions from Odom and Varejao.

I would keep the rankings the same.

I think we absolutely throttle the Heat on the inside where they're just not big enough to handle us, they can shoot their jumpers all day, but they have no one who can body up Amar'e or even Okafor for that matter and they don't have a player to stay in front of Stuckey.

A note about Stuckey, the past three years he has steadily improved getting himself 17pppg with 5 dimes last year. Detroit is terrible because they have such a muddled back court full of redundancies ( Gordon, Rip, Stuckey) that lead to ineffeciencies. However, paired with Duhon, who can play off the ball and be a bargain derek fischer offensively, those redundancies wouldn't be there.

I will say that I think we could give Atlanta the hardest time in the division because A) We have two capable defenders to throw at Durant in Gay and Battier, they also don't have the horses to win the battle inside with us. They have two gifted defensive guards, but all we have to do is run pick and rolls over and over again and they won't have the defenders to keep up with us.

I think you vastly underrate the entirety of my line up Who. Okafor didn't contribute much to New Orleans last year because they were a terrible team and he simply can't be the 2nd best player on a team. When Paul went down and DWest regressing ( as you noted earlier) that's what he was. But I would note, that in less minutes he produced roughly the same.

Rudy Gay's defense is vastly underrated on this blog, but in my fairly extensive observations he is an all NBA defender when he chooses to be and an above average defender when he doesn't.

Dejuan Blair wilted against the Mavs a bit, The entire Spurs did, and it's not unreasonable for a rookie to have a bad first playoff series.

Amar'e's ( That's an awkward amount of apostrophes) game doesn't benefit as much from an uptempo system as much as it does a constant barrage of pick and rolls, which our Coach Eric Spolstra showed he'd be willing to do if it was working. And while 9 rebounds a game may disappoint some, next to Emeka and Blair, it's perfectly fine. Amar'e suffers a lot from the " He should be better" syndrome fans have and thus his substantive defensive contribution get overlooked because he's not a top 3 defender at his position.


It is so important to look at how these players function as a team together and not how they performed last season on their former teams. I think One of the strengths of my team is how individuals skill sets cover for one another's weaknesses.

Thats all until the presser.

On Rudy's defense

I agree that Rudy's defense is under-rated. He has improved quite a bit over the last two years. I also agree that he is capable of being one of the best defensive players in the league at his position. Unfortunately, he hasn't put in the effort + focus consistently enough to achieve that yet ... which is why I only regard him as a slightly above average defender (at the moment).

That is part of the reason (along with effort on the boards + unimpressive scoring efficiency + he is a non-passer) why I feel that he is a terrific long term prospect ... but currently not worthy of being an All-Star player.

I don't feel your squad has enough defensive quality for Rudy to see a large immediate bump in his defensive effort/focus. In large part because I don't rate Emeka Okafor as a high quality defender anymore.

Emeka Okafor + Amare Stoudemire

We'll just have to agree to disagree here. On Okafor's value as a player + Amare's non-scoring contributions.

Rodney Stuckey + Lineups

I like Rodney Stuckey a great deal more as a combo guard off the bench than as a starting shooting guard. I think that gives your squad the best overall balance.

I am a big fan of Rudy Gay + Shane Battier starting alongside one another. I think Battier's superb defense and Rudy's athleticism, solid defense and defensive potential will help provide cover for your big man's lack of collective defense. I also prefer the rebounding bump you'll get.

On Stuckey, I like him better as a point guard than a two guard. He has become a very capable defensive player at the position and a solid setup point guard (not a playmaker, not a creative passer, just a guy who initiates the offense). The part about his scoring that I dislike is his lack of efficiency (TS% 48% last season, 49% for career). So he is a volume scorer.

I think his defensive / rebounding  impact is significantly lowered by playing the SG instead of the PG + I think Stuckey will be more effective offensively going against bench players rather than starters. I thought he showed flashes of being a major game changer in this role as a rookie in Detroit and I think he could fulfill that potential on your roster in that role.

So, if you made that change to your lineup, I would like your team significantly more.

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Also, I agree and disagree on Detroit's backcourt.

I think Stuckey, Rip and Ben Gordon is a very effective combination.

I do, however, agree that the Pistons screwed that up by trying to fit Will Bynum into the rotation + I agree that Will Bynum hurt Stuckey's game + hurt Stuckey's development. And likewise hurt Ben Gordon and Rip Hamilton also.

[Roy H.]

I thought Golden State came out of the gates firing, and then kinda hit a lull. Surprised didn't reach on a big.

See, I think Golden State *did* reach on a big.  Two of them, in fact, assuming they want to be a "win now" team.  Randolph and Splitter were both drafted significantly higher, in my opinion, than their present day value.

(At the same time, I think both will be very good in the future.  However, I think it's too much to ask your center and power forward to both make "the leap" in one year, especially when one is a rookie.)

EDIT:  Another point, that only myself and Rondo2287 may agree on:  I think Brandan Wright in the 10th round is much, much better value than Anthony Randolph in the 3rd round.  People seem to forget that Randolph played 33 games last year, and averaged less than 12 ppg on an offensively-oriented squad.  Also, he's very, very sporadic on defense.

[Rondo2287]

trust me im worried about Kobe, but he better be worried about Rip, Maggette, and Dirk.  Dirk would eat that team for breakfast lunch and dinner

I think Rip, Maggette, he shouldn't worry about. Rip hasn't been the same player since he was injured (could be a moral thing, who knows), and Pietrus should be able to contain Maggette.

Dirk on Ty Thomas though is going to be rough.

I've already began wondering what I'm going to do about 'Ze German'.

Id also consider Jarret Jack vs Johnny Flynn to be pretty big in my favor

Not so big that it tips tables any which way. Its not like either guy is going to be heavily relied on in the rotation.

Overall though I think Indiana's bench is pretty terrible.

[StartOrien]

I might be alone here, but I gotta ask:

Does anyone else not see it for Utah? I just don't see them as an elite team.

No point of bringing up contention with Gasol, he's great.

Its preposterous to dismiss to Yao Ming's injuries. 0 gp's, 77 gp's, 55 gp's, 48 gp's, 57 gp's.

Wings are good, not great.

Not a big Calderon fan.

This is a very, very good team. But I don't think they're head and shoulders better than other Western Conference teams.

[Roy H.]

I might be alone here, but I gotta ask:

Does anyone else not see it for Utah? I just don't see them as an elite team.

No point of bringing up contention with Gasol, he's great.

Its preposterous to dismiss to Yao Ming's injuries. 0 gp's, 77 gp's, 55 gp's, 48 gp's, 57 gp's.

Wings are good, not great.

Not a big Calderon fan.

This is a very, very good team. But I don't think they're head and shoulders better than other Western Conference teams.

If Utah is healthy, I love their team.

However, as you say, health is a huge concern.  Both Utah and D.C. are going to have to give me some historical examples of big men coming back from similar injury issues before I can vote for their teams to advance deep into the playoffs.

[Rondo2287]

I might be alone here, but I gotta ask:

Does anyone else not see it for Utah? I just don't see them as an elite team.

No point of bringing up contention with Gasol, he's great.

Its preposterous to dismiss to Yao Ming's injuries. 0 gp's, 77 gp's, 55 gp's, 48 gp's, 57 gp's.

Wings are good, not great.

Not a big Calderon fan.

This is a very, very good team. But I don't think they're head and shoulders better than other Western Conference teams.

If Utah is healthy, I love their team.

However, as you say, health is a huge concern.  Both Utah and D.C. are going to have to give me some historical examples of big men coming back from similar injury issues before I can vote for their teams to advance deep into the playoffs.

Well one of them is on your pseudo team roy

[Lucky17]

I might be alone here, but I gotta ask:

Does anyone else not see it for Utah? I just don't see them as an elite team.

No point of bringing up contention with Gasol, he's great.

Its preposterous to dismiss to Yao Ming's injuries. 0 gp's, 77 gp's, 55 gp's, 48 gp's, 57 gp's.

Wings are good, not great.

Not a big Calderon fan.

This is a very, very good team. But I don't think they're head and shoulders better than other Western Conference teams.

To me, the Western teams are all about the same level. There's no standout team.

Except Utah, with a healthy Yao and Gasol. No team can match up against that size and skill in the frontcourt.

Elite, by default.

[Who]

Some preliminary rankings ... for the East

Atlantic Division

#1 - New York Knicks - contender
#2 - Boston Celtics
#3 - Toronto Raptors
#4 - New Jersey Nets - lottery team

I am not sure who is on Phily's roster. So I left them out for now.

Central Division

#1 - Chicago - contender
#2 - Indiana
#3 - Milwaukee
#4/#5 - Cleveland / Detroit

It's been awhile since Indiana's roster has been updated so they might fall or rise, or stay exactly where they are, depending on their moves since then. They had a very nice foundation (Kobe, Pietrus, Tyrus, M.Gasol) to work with at their last update.

Southeast Division

#1 - Orlando - contender
#2 - Washington - contender
#3 - Atlanta
#4 - Miami
#5 - Charlotte/Seattle

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So, I think there are four contenders in the East. Chicago, New York, Orlando and Washington.

Us at 5th in our division is just silly.

Ah, I just remembered that Miami had Phil Jackson as their Head Coach. That is a very poor fit for their roster.

Miami now fall to fifth place and Charlotte/Seattle rise to fourth place.

Southeast Division

#1 - Orlando - contender
#2 - Washington - contender
#3 - Atlanta
#4 - Charlotte/Seattle
#5 - Miami

If Miami had somebody like Mike D'Antoni, or even Alvin Gentry, I'd keep them in their spot.