Author Topic: 2010 CB Draft: Central Division Press Conferences  (Read 85002 times)

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Re: 2010 CB Draft: Central Division Press Conferences
« Reply #255 on: September 03, 2010, 09:24:21 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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and he is exceptional.
Well if he's exceptional I wonder what that makes power forwards like Boozer and Lee and Bosh and Jefferson and Scola and Odom and Garnett?

Boozer = Amazingly Other-Worldly

So I guess that makes Gasol = All Encompassing Universal Superific


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Re: 2010 CB Draft: Central Division Press Conferences
« Reply #256 on: September 03, 2010, 09:25:53 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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well they can be exceptional too. some of them can even be elite as well as exceptional. except scola. he's elongated. and david lee, well he's episcopal.

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like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: 2010 CB Draft: Central Division Press Conferences
« Reply #257 on: September 03, 2010, 09:36:15 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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With Scola I'll stick with the word good.

I like that word.

He's good.

Re: 2010 CB Draft: Central Division Press Conferences
« Reply #258 on: September 03, 2010, 09:40:16 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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haha.....you were the first one to throw out exceptional.

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like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: 2010 CB Draft: Central Division Press Conferences
« Reply #259 on: September 04, 2010, 10:06:36 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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With Scola I'll stick with the word good.

I like that word.

He's good.
Well since the difference between a rebounding rate of 9.2 and 15.5 isn't significant, expect me to ask why Washington is any good at all.

Since rebounding is your major strength and focus, wasted effort apparently...

Re: 2010 CB Draft: Central Division Press Conferences
« Reply #260 on: September 04, 2010, 12:48:30 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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With Scola I'll stick with the word good.

I like that word.

He's good.
Well since the difference between a rebounding rate of 9.2 and 15.5 isn't significant, expect me to ask why Washington is any good at all.

Since rebounding is your major strength and focus, wasted effort apparently...
Please address questions regarding the Boxers to the proper press conference thread where I may or may not decide to address them. This is the Central division presser.

And what, it took you all this time to finally find one single statistic you could call a significant difference between Baby and Ilyasova Faf? Next time you label all the stats of two players, stats that are pretty darn similar, as significantly different, you might want to point out that there really is only one stat that in your mind stood out as being significantly different.

Rebounding.


Re: 2010 CB Draft: Central Division Press Conferences
« Reply #261 on: September 04, 2010, 03:32:55 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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And what, it took you all this time to finally find one single statistic you could call a significant difference between Baby and Ilyasova Faf? Next time you label all the stats of two players, stats that are pretty darn similar, as significantly different, you might want to point out that there really is only one stat that in your mind stood out as being significantly different.

Rebounding.



Well, I mean if you just looked at the basic stat lines I guess that's what you'd assume.

Shooting:

Overall FG%: Ilyasova, 44.3%, Davis 43.7%
-now right here, this is an excellent example to bolster nick's theory. .7% is not a significant difference. But lets look closer.

Ilyasova isn't the post player Glen Davis is, so you'd expect Davis's moves around the basket to be superior, and Ilyasova's jumpshooting to be better.

Jump shooting: Ilyasova 70% of shots taken, 45.7% made, Davis 42% shots taken, 29.1% made
-so nothing crazy there. Ilyasova makes his money as a stretch 4, and Davis makes his money as a banger (and once a year, clutch jump shooter), so Ilyasova should be significantly better there, and he is.

Close shots: Ilyasova 30% shots 59.6% made 10% blocked, Davis 58% of shots 54.3% made 25% blocked

I'd say Ilyasova is a superior scorer to Glen Davis. Ilyasova's strength, his ability to spread the floor and finish at the hoop because of his athleticism, comes through strong. Davis's strength, his ability to score around the basket, is limited because of his lack of elevation, although he does manage to get a lot of his own rebounds.

Passing:
Since Ilyasova began his career as a small forward, one would assume he's a better passer. Lets see how that plays out.

Assists per 48 minutes: Ilyasova 2.1, Davis 1.8

So that's not a huge discrepancy. Ilyasova is marginally better per 48 minutes, so while that is expected, I frankly expected more. Lets look closer.

In depth passing:

Illy 84 total assists, 24 passing turnovers (errant passes), Davis 35 total assists, 14 passing turnovers. That's a 3.5 assist to passing turnover ratio for Ilyasova, 2.5 ratio for Davis.

So while we're talking about the difference between a guy who averages 1 assist per game (Illy) and a guy who averages .6 per (Davis), and passing is obviously not a key part of either's game, Ilyasova is better.

rebounding we've established.

How about defense?

Based on just watching the players, Davis is stronger, Ilyasova is faster. They're both good defenders for being a step behind physically on some defenders (taller for Davis, stronger for Ilyasova), and both guys are tenacious defenders who give 100%. Glen Davis as a power forward can defend centers, because of his strength. Ilyasova, because of his speed and jumping ability, can defend small forwards as well as power forwards from the 4.

I don't know of any statistic I trust to label either one a better defender. As far as plays that steal a possession, Davis gets .4 steals per contest and .3 blocks, Ilyasova gets .65 steals per contest and .28 blocks. Edge Illy, but not in any way I would label significant.

So by the numbers, Ilyasova is a better scorer, rebounder, and passer.

I'm not knocking Glen Davis as a player, I think he's a heck of a player. I just think Ilyasova is significantly better almost across the board, and I don't think they should be evaluated in the same tier of talent.

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like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: 2010 CB Draft: Central Division Press Conferences
« Reply #262 on: September 04, 2010, 03:49:58 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Honest question, IP:  How many games have you seen Ilyasova play in?

He's an okay player, but I'm thinking that maybe you've bought into a little bit of hyperbole you found on the internet.  I agree he's an overall better player than BBD, but he's also probably not anywhere near as good as you're making him out to be.


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Re: 2010 CB Draft: Central Division Press Conferences
« Reply #263 on: September 04, 2010, 04:06:46 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Not true at all.

I picked Ilyasova in the CB draft last season, I picked him up in the pick 2 draft this year, and the draft this year.

After picking him up in the CB draft I was very interested in how he was going to play. If you know me at all, being right is one of my favorite things to be, so when Ilyasova started surprising people, I started watching more.

Entire games? Counting our games against the Bucks, 6 or 7. The only entire games I watched were when they played Boston, and a couple in the playoffs..and even then the ones in the playoffs it wasn't like I was taking notes.

But over the course of the season when the new TV shows aren't on and all you got is league pass and no Celtics games on a week night, I'd watch good chunks of Bucks games. When you get a binky and nothing else is on, its worth 20-30 minutes to watch them play, especially if they're playing well.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: 2010 CB Draft: Central Division Press Conferences
« Reply #264 on: September 04, 2010, 04:17:24 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Let me amend that. I watched a good amount of Ilyasova play, but its not like I was watching them to prove points later. I was watching them to go "yeah!" when he (or Bogut, another guy I like) did something cool.

And I am relying on other peoples' analysis of his game, because frankly, they're paid to do it, and they're probably better at it.

I doubt I'm any different in that regard than the other GM's in the league, excepting Who, who seems to have a 3 ring binder somewhere with dossiers on everyone who has ever touched a basketball.

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like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: 2010 CB Draft: Central Division Press Conferences
« Reply #265 on: September 05, 2010, 12:32:43 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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With Scola I'll stick with the word good.

I like that word.

He's good.
Well since the difference between a rebounding rate of 9.2 and 15.5 isn't significant, expect me to ask why Washington is any good at all.

Since rebounding is your major strength and focus, wasted effort apparently...
Please address questions regarding the Boxers to the proper press conference thread where I may or may not decide to address them. This is the Central division presser.

And what, it took you all this time to finally find one single statistic you could call a significant difference between Baby and Ilyasova Faf? Next time you label all the stats of two players, stats that are pretty darn similar, as significantly different, you might want to point out that there really is only one stat that in your mind stood out as being significantly different.

Rebounding.


No nick I immediately identified rebounding as the reason Ilyasova's numbers were better than BBD, and said so.

1) Ersan Ilyasova is an exceptional player.

Define "exceptional".

6'10, 23 years old, 11 pts, 7 rebounds and 35% shooting while playing good team defense for 26 minutes when he was playing as a starter is exceptional. Exceptional as in better than the average NBA power forward.   
Is Glen Big Baby Davis an exceptional player?

When he started for an injured KG in the playoffs, when competition is at it's zenith, he averaged 15.8 PPG and 5.6 RPG while shooting 49%. Does that make him an exceptional player and better than the average NBA PF? because even though I am a Celtic and Big Baby fan, I don't consider him exceptional or better than an average NBA PF.
Those numbers are worse than what Ilyasova put up though, signifigantly so.
Wait...

31 MPG, 15.6 PPG, 5.6 RPG, 49% FG%, 53.8% TS%

26 MPG 11 PPG, 7 RPG, 42% FG%, 50.7 TS%

Do you want to explain to me how Ilyasova's numbers while starting in the regular season and going against regular season competition is SIGNIFICANTLY better than Baby's numbers while Baby was playing against playoff level competition?
Yes it is because 5.6 rebounds is extremely poor in those minutes.

You've highlighted how important rebounding is to a team's success, you've even built your team philosophy around it.

Re: 2010 CB Draft: Central Division Press Conferences
« Reply #266 on: September 05, 2010, 07:50:44 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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With Scola I'll stick with the word good.

I like that word.

He's good.
Well since the difference between a rebounding rate of 9.2 and 15.5 isn't significant, expect me to ask why Washington is any good at all.

Since rebounding is your major strength and focus, wasted effort apparently...
Please address questions regarding the Boxers to the proper press conference thread where I may or may not decide to address them. This is the Central division presser.

And what, it took you all this time to finally find one single statistic you could call a significant difference between Baby and Ilyasova Faf? Next time you label all the stats of two players, stats that are pretty darn similar, as significantly different, you might want to point out that there really is only one stat that in your mind stood out as being significantly different.

Rebounding.


No nick I immediately identified rebounding as the reason Ilyasova's numbers were better than BBD, and said so.

1) Ersan Ilyasova is an exceptional player.

Define "exceptional".

6'10, 23 years old, 11 pts, 7 rebounds and 35% shooting while playing good team defense for 26 minutes when he was playing as a starter is exceptional. Exceptional as in better than the average NBA power forward.   
Is Glen Big Baby Davis an exceptional player?

When he started for an injured KG in the playoffs, when competition is at it's zenith, he averaged 15.8 PPG and 5.6 RPG while shooting 49%. Does that make him an exceptional player and better than the average NBA PF? because even though I am a Celtic and Big Baby fan, I don't consider him exceptional or better than an average NBA PF.
Those numbers are worse than what Ilyasova put up though, signifigantly so.
Wait...

31 MPG, 15.6 PPG, 5.6 RPG, 49% FG%, 53.8% TS%

26 MPG 11 PPG, 7 RPG, 42% FG%, 50.7 TS%

Do you want to explain to me how Ilyasova's numbers while starting in the regular season and going against regular season competition is SIGNIFICANTLY better than Baby's numbers while Baby was playing against playoff level competition?
Yes it is because 5.6 rebounds is extremely poor in those minutes.

You've highlighted how important rebounding is to a team's success, you've even built your team philosophy around it.
Sorry Faf, must have missed that post. I stand corrected.

Re: 2010 CB Draft: Central Division Press Conferences
« Reply #267 on: September 05, 2010, 07:25:50 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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weeeeeelllllll.....this is boring.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: 2010 CB Draft: Central Division Press Conferences
« Reply #268 on: September 05, 2010, 08:54:49 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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weeeeeelllllll.....this is boring.
Is it just me or are things being drawn out a lot farther this year with a ton of down time in between?

By the time the voting starts is anyone going to care anymore?

I hope though I have to say with classes starting(I am going back to school online) and business, I'm not so sure how much time I'm going to have to invest in this much more.

Re: 2010 CB Draft: Central Division Press Conferences
« Reply #269 on: September 05, 2010, 09:28:44 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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it does seem a little longer. maybe next season...2 conferences a day instead of uno

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner