Ariza was available for Cheap, Danny Sleeps.

[JSD]

I believe we had the pieces and Ainge didn't pull the trigger.

Which pieces?  I am pretty sure that Houston prefers Courtney Lee to the likely late first-round pick that the Celtics will have next season.

I'm not sure how likely it is, the Celtics picked 19th this past draft... We'll see this season when it comes to minutes. I don't see Lee carving out much of a role at either wing slot. Though Martin insurance is a decent investment I suppose.

[JSD]

I love it. A player we supposedly want we don't get, and it means Danny's sleeping on the job, all under the assumption that all it'd take to get Ariza is Sheed + a 1st (a probably late 1st at that).

Really, guys?

Managing salary over talent type trades happen all the time in the NBA. Houston's main agenda here was reducing salary, clearly.

[fairweatherfan]

This all hinges on A. Sheed + a late 1st being a better offer than Courtney Lee (nope) and B. Ariza being willing to accept a bench role (very unlikely). 

I'd love Ariza on this team in theory but I don't think you can say Danny could've made this deal and just chose not to for no apparent reason.

[Fafnir]

I believe we had the pieces and Ainge didn't pull the trigger.

Which pieces?  I am pretty sure that Houston prefers Courtney Lee to the likely late first-round pick that the Celtics will have next season.

I'm not sure how likely it is, the Celtics picked 19th this past draft... We'll see this season when it comes to minutes. I don't see Lee carving out much of a role at either wing slot. Though Martin insurance is a decent investment I suppose.

Lee gives them a better defender at the 2, and Martin is also frequently injured. Courtney Lee is a pretty valuable piece who's also on a rookie deal.

[Fafnir]

Ariza's contract was too long.

Hes only 24,25...6 years? who cares. He fits in to what we need now and would have had plenty of time to slide over into a starting role.

If Ainge wasn't going to overpay to try and outbid Memphis for the services of Tony Allen, he's not going to want Ariza.

Ariza's contract is the sort that bad GMs sign a lot of.  I don't think Ainge should take on this sort of player unless he projects the guy to be a future All-Star.

Ainge shouldn't take on an MLE contract unless the player is a future all-star?

Ariza is a fine player in the right role and a great fit with Rondo. Shame we didn't have the pieces to get him.

I believe we had the pieces and Ainge didn't pull the trigger.

The Rockets are trying to win now, I don't see how Sheed + a pick helps them win now.

[nickagneta]

I agree with Roy. The timing of Rasheed's waiver and the next day the announcement of a trade that had to be in the works for weeks given the number of teams involved, tells me that Danny probably was involved in these talks but just didn't have what it took to fit in and get a player they wanted.

It could be Houston was only dealing Ariza

It could be Houston had to have a competent SG back

It could be Houston wasn't interested in a straight salary dump.

It could be Houston was asking for a first rounder besides Sheed's contract

It could be Boston wasn't interested in Ariza's contract

It could be they were only interested in Jeffries or Battier

It could be they were interested in a player from Indiana and not Houston

The reason why Danny couldn't get into this deal could be any of the above or many of the above or none of the above. But I don't think for a moment he didn't know about it and didn't attempt to get involved. The timing of the Rasheed waiver is just not coincidental. I just can't see it that way. Especially given that 12% of the league was involved in the deal and probably the rest of the league knew about it.

[fairweatherfan]

Given the timing of this trade and Sheed being waived, it's also very possible that this is the last deal Danny kicked the tires on before cutting Sheed loose.  Shouldn't assume he didn't even look into Ariza.

EDIT:  Beaten repeatedly on this thought, apparently.  Serves me right for skimming the thread.

[Mike-Dub]

I agree with Roy. The timing of Rasheed's waiver and the next day the announcement of a trade that had to be in the works for weeks given the number of teams involved, tells me that Danny probably was involved in these talks but just didn't have what it took to fit in and get a player they wanted.

It could be Houston was only dealing Ariza

It could be Houston had to have a competent SG back

It could be Houston wasn't interested in a straight salary dump.

It could be Houston was asking for a first rounder besides Sheed's contract

It could be Boston wasn't interested in Ariza's contract

It could be they were only interested in Jeffries or Battier

It could be they were interested in a player from Indiana and not Houston

The reason why Danny couldn't get into this deal could be any of the above or many of the above or none of the above. But I don't think for a moment he didn't know about it and didn't attempt to get involved. The timing of the Rasheed waiver is just not coincidental. I just can't see it that way. Especially given that 12% of the league was involved in the deal and probably the rest of the league knew about it.

Completely agree with you and Roy.

[Mike-Dub]

Ariza's contract was too long.

Hes only 24,25...6 years? who cares. He fits in to what we need now and would have had plenty of time to slide over into a starting role.

If Ainge wasn't going to overpay to try and outbid Memphis for the services of Tony Allen, he's not going to want Ariza.

Ariza's contract is the sort that bad GMs sign a lot of.  I don't think Ainge should take on this sort of player unless he projects the guy to be a future All-Star.

Ainge shouldn't take on an MLE contract unless the player is a future all-star?

Ariza is a fine player in the right role and a great fit with Rondo. Shame we didn't have the pieces to get him.

I believe we had the pieces and Ainge didn't pull the trigger.

The Rockets are trying to win now, I don't see how Sheed + a pick helps them win now.

Kind of.  I know they sured up a weakness on their team by getting a backup for Martin and getting rid of one of their sf's when they had a glutten of them, but if they were really trying to win they wouldn't have done the deal and would have dealt with being over the luxury tax.  They were better off standing pat than they are now IMO.

If I were them I would have tried to deal Battier because I value Ariza over him.  They may have tried and not been able to get something back in return that they would havel liked, but I doubt that and believe that Sheed's contract and a first should have been enough for Battier.

[JSD]

This all hinges on A. Sheed + a late 1st being a better offer than Courtney Lee (nope) and B. Ariza being willing to accept a bench role (very unlikely).  

I'd love Ariza on this team in theory but I don't think you can say Danny could've made this deal and just chose not to for no apparent reason.

A. Lee himself was a late 1st rounder just a couple of seasons ago. He's a solid player, not exactly the greatest late round pick.

The last five draft classes with an NBA track record, of players drafted between picks 20 - 30 that match or surpass Courntey Lee's talent or value:

2004 - Jameer Nelson, Delonte West, Tony Allen, Kevin Martin, Anderson Varejão
2005 - Nate Robinson, Jarrett Jack, David Lee
2006 - Rajon Rondo, Kyle Lowry, Jordan Farmar
2007 - Jared Dudley, Wilson Chandler, Rudy Fernández, Aaron Brooks
2008 - Ryan Anderson, Courtney Lee, George Hill
2009 - Darren Collison, Omri Casspi, Taj Gibson

So no, I don't think it's that easy to say it's Lee over a Celtics first rounder for a non-contending team. Also, a draft pick is more economical for a team looking to rebuild.


B. Ariza doesn't have a no trade clause.

I think Ainge balked at the idea of adding salary beyond the 2012 season and was probably trying to steal Battier instead.

[Roy Hobbs]

Given the timing of this trade and Sheed being waived, it's also very possible that this is the last deal Danny kicked the tires on before cutting Sheed loose.  Shouldn't assume he didn't even look into Ariza.

EDIT:  Beaten repeatedly on this thought, apparently.  Serves me right for skimming the thread.

Great basketball minds think alike.   I'm glad to be in the esteemed company of you, nick, and Mike.

[JSD]

Ariza's contract was too long.

Hes only 24,25...6 years? who cares. He fits in to what we need now and would have had plenty of time to slide over into a starting role.

If Ainge wasn't going to overpay to try and outbid Memphis for the services of Tony Allen, he's not going to want Ariza.

Ariza's contract is the sort that bad GMs sign a lot of.  I don't think Ainge should take on this sort of player unless he projects the guy to be a future All-Star.

Ainge shouldn't take on an MLE contract unless the player is a future all-star?

Ariza is a fine player in the right role and a great fit with Rondo. Shame we didn't have the pieces to get him.

I believe we had the pieces and Ainge didn't pull the trigger.

The Rockets are trying to win now, I don't see how Sheed + a pick helps them win now.

If the Rockets are trying to win now, in this landscape, they're delusional.

[JSD]

Given the timing of this trade and Sheed being waived, it's also very possible that this is the last deal Danny kicked the tires on before cutting Sheed loose.  Shouldn't assume he didn't even look into Ariza.

EDIT:  Beaten repeatedly on this thought, apparently.  Serves me right for skimming the thread.

Great basketball minds think alike.  I'm glad to be in the esteemed company of you, nick, and Mike.

Yeah no doubt Roy, I'll join this club too. Danny was in the mix until he knew it wasn't going to work out.

[Mike-Dub]

Given the timing of this trade and Sheed being waived, it's also very possible that this is the last deal Danny kicked the tires on before cutting Sheed loose.  Shouldn't assume he didn't even look into Ariza.

EDIT:  Beaten repeatedly on this thought, apparently.  Serves me right for skimming the thread.

Great basketball minds think alike.   I'm glad to be in the esteemed company of you, nick, and Mike.

Likewise Roy.  TP.

[jdpapa3]

I think the Rockets can absolutely contend this season. It all depends on Yao obviously, but they have enough talent on both sides of the ball to contend.

Yao going down was enough to push them down to the 17th best Defense in the league after being 4th the year before...that defense will go back to being elite if he's even 85% back.