Bill Simmons-Rondo for Paul trade idea

[ssspence]

Do I have to actually state how different they are as players? And how Rondo’s scoring is not essential and actually is a detriment to the overall team success?  Seriously more points?

You don't have to state anything. I'd think if you were going to argue that Rondo scoring is detrimenal to the success of the Celtics, you might just skip it and go get a beer or something.

[Birdbrain]

My take - Rajon Rondo is a terrific player on both ends, young, on a great contract, and we should be happy to have him.  Few players in the NBA are better.

Chris Paul is one of those players.

Not only did Kobe's ability to play off of Rondo mess up Boston's team offense (it is a team game after all), but it allowed Kobe to be closer to the boards and help the Lakers dominate us here.  Kobe had 15 rebounds in Game 7.  Does not happen if he is away from the basket guarding Chris Paul.

Also, we are often afraid to put the ball in Rondo's hands at the end of games because of his awful free throw shooting.  As great as he is, he is often a liability.

Wondering where the information that Chris Paul is a bad defensive player comes from?  Just because he gets steals?  Getting steals alone doesn't make you a great defensive player but it doesn't make you a bad one.  Pippen, Jordan, Alvin Robertson, Rondo himself, they all have high steal numbers.

With Rajon Rondo we have 1 championship.  Great.  Glad to have one. With Chris Paul we almost certainly would have 2.

Keep in mind that Rajon has played with 3 hall of famers just past their primes while Paul has played with 0.

I love the revisionism.  The dude dominated Cleveland unlike anything Chris Paul would have ever done.  He essentially made the Cavs and LJ quit with his game 4 performance which is so far in past that everyone forgets..

What did he revise?

Apparently you hang your hat on the 2nd Round?  That was a great series for Rondo but I am far more concerned about how we lost the Finals.  Rondo's inability to shoot from the field and the FT line certainly did not help us.  Was he the main culprit?  No not at all, and in fact was the last to give in.  With Perk healthy and Ray hitting a couple of his threes we win the title.  But regardless, the sag off defense and poor shooting of Rondo are major problems with his game.

Umm you have to get past the 2nd round to get the Finals.  And we most certainly didn't lose the finals because of Rondo.  He was our best player.  Look to lack of rebounding and Allen for missing everything outside of game 2.  

[FallGuy]

My take - Rajon Rondo is a terrific player on both ends, young, on a great contract, and we should be happy to have him.  Few players in the NBA are better.

Chris Paul is one of those players.

Not only did Kobe's ability to play off of Rondo mess up Boston's team offense (it is a team game after all), but it allowed Kobe to be closer to the boards and help the Lakers dominate us here.  Kobe had 15 rebounds in Game 7.  Does not happen if he is away from the basket guarding Chris Paul.

Also, we are often afraid to put the ball in Rondo's hands at the end of games because of his awful free throw shooting.  As great as he is, he is often a liability.

Wondering where the information that Chris Paul is a bad defensive player comes from?  Just because he gets steals?  Getting steals alone doesn't make you a great defensive player but it doesn't make you a bad one.  Pippen, Jordan, Alvin Robertson, Rondo himself, they all have high steal numbers.

With Rajon Rondo we have 1 championship.  Great.  Glad to have one. With Chris Paul we almost certainly would have 2.

Keep in mind that Rajon has played with 3 hall of famers just past their primes while Paul has played with 0.

I love the revisionism.  The dude dominated Cleveland unlike anything Chris Paul would have ever done.  He essentially made the Cavs and LJ quit with his game 4 performance which is so far in past that everyone forgets..

What did he revise?

Apparently you hang your hat on the 2nd Round?  That was a great series for Rondo but I am far more concerned about how we lost the Finals.  Rondo's inability to shoot from the field and the FT line certainly did not help us.  Was he the main culprit?  No not at all, and in fact was the last to give in.  With Perk healthy and Ray hitting a couple of his threes we win the title.  But regardless, the sag off defense and poor shooting of Rondo are major problems with his game that the Lakers exploited on their way to the title.

What's more - Rondo's problems may or may not be correctable.

Agree with the person above who said we'd have two titles instead of one, if we'd had Paul on the roster.

Love Rondo, but I'll drive him to the airport myself if we can get Chris Paul.

[Timdawgg]

My take - Rajon Rondo is a terrific player on both ends, young, on a great contract, and we should be happy to have him.  Few players in the NBA are better.

Chris Paul is one of those players.

Not only did Kobe's ability to play off of Rondo mess up Boston's team offense (it is a team game after all), but it allowed Kobe to be closer to the boards and help the Lakers dominate us here.  Kobe had 15 rebounds in Game 7.  Does not happen if he is away from the basket guarding Chris Paul.

Also, we are often afraid to put the ball in Rondo's hands at the end of games because of his awful free throw shooting.  As great as he is, he is often a liability.

Wondering where the information that Chris Paul is a bad defensive player comes from?  Just because he gets steals?  Getting steals alone doesn't make you a great defensive player but it doesn't make you a bad one.  Pippen, Jordan, Alvin Robertson, Rondo himself, they all have high steal numbers.

With Rajon Rondo we have 1 championship.  Great.  Glad to have one.  With Chris Paul we almost certainly would have 2.

Keep in mind that Rajon has played with 3 hall of famers just past their primes while Paul has played with 0.

No we would definitely only have 1. Chris Paul would have been out of the playoffs last year. We probably lose to the Cavs instead.....and the year before NO KG no win that year either (Paul or no Paul)

[Birdbrain]

My take - Rajon Rondo is a terrific player on both ends, young, on a great contract, and we should be happy to have him.  Few players in the NBA are better.

Chris Paul is one of those players.

Not only did Kobe's ability to play off of Rondo mess up Boston's team offense (it is a team game after all), but it allowed Kobe to be closer to the boards and help the Lakers dominate us here.  Kobe had 15 rebounds in Game 7.  Does not happen if he is away from the basket guarding Chris Paul.

Also, we are often afraid to put the ball in Rondo's hands at the end of games because of his awful free throw shooting.  As great as he is, he is often a liability.

Wondering where the information that Chris Paul is a bad defensive player comes from?  Just because he gets steals?  Getting steals alone doesn't make you a great defensive player but it doesn't make you a bad one.  Pippen, Jordan, Alvin Robertson, Rondo himself, they all have high steal numbers.

With Rajon Rondo we have 1 championship.  Great.  Glad to have one.  With Chris Paul we almost certainly would have 2.

Keep in mind that Rajon has played with 3 hall of famers just past their primes while Paul has played with 0.

I love the revisionism.  The dude dominated Cleveland unlike anything Chris Paul would have ever done.  He essentially made the Cavs and LJ quit with his game 4 performance which is so far in past that everyone forgets..

How is this revisionist?

Rondo played great and propelled us past Cleveland, he wasn't able to maintain that level of play against Orlando and the Lakers though in those series.

The guy said we would certainly won a 2nd championship w/ Paul except we may not have gotten past Cleveland.  You know prior to even getting ECF.

[Birdbrain]

Do I have to actually state how different they are as players? And how Rondo’s scoring is not essential and actually is a detriment to the overall team success?  Seriously more points?

You don't have to state anything. I'd think if you were going to argue that Rondo scoring is detrimenal to the success of the Celtics, you might just skip it and go get a beer or something.

This lacks any semblance of humor or BBIQ, fyi.

[celtsfan84]

I appreciate the Tommy Points guys.  Just stating my opinion, thanks for the support.

It isn't even necessarily the points, Birdbrain, but that Paul would have to be guarded, meaning KG, Paul, Ray would have more room to operate and Kobe wouldn't have 15 rebounds.  And regarding the points thing, you do realize that we only scored 79 points in a Game 7, correct?  More points than 79 would have been good.  Much like everyone here, I would have preferred a great performance in the Finals to a great performance in the 2nd Round.

Also, it makes one no less of a fan of a team to root for a trade.  I root for the name on the front of the shirt, not the name on the back.

Brief history lesson: In 1956, Ed Macauley was our best player and a 6-time all-star.  Red Auerbach decided to deal him for an unproven rookie.  His name was Bill Russell.  11 Championships later ...

Though I'm sure you would have been happier with Ed Macauley, because that would have been loyal, and we might have only one ring out of it.

[Snakehead]

My take - Rajon Rondo is a terrific player on both ends, young, on a great contract, and we should be happy to have him.  Few players in the NBA are better.

Chris Paul is one of those players.

Not only did Kobe's ability to play off of Rondo mess up Boston's team offense (it is a team game after all), but it allowed Kobe to be closer to the boards and help the Lakers dominate us here.  Kobe had 15 rebounds in Game 7.  Does not happen if he is away from the basket guarding Chris Paul.

Also, we are often afraid to put the ball in Rondo's hands at the end of games because of his awful free throw shooting.  As great as he is, he is often a liability.

Wondering where the information that Chris Paul is a bad defensive player comes from?  Just because he gets steals?  Getting steals alone doesn't make you a great defensive player but it doesn't make you a bad one.  Pippen, Jordan, Alvin Robertson, Rondo himself, they all have high steal numbers.

With Rajon Rondo we have 1 championship.  Great.  Glad to have one. With Chris Paul we almost certainly would have 2.

Keep in mind that Rajon has played with 3 hall of famers just past their primes while Paul has played with 0.

I love the revisionism.  The dude dominated Cleveland unlike anything Chris Paul would have ever done.  He essentially made the Cavs and LJ quit with his game 4 performance which is so far in past that everyone forgets..

What did he revise?

Apparently you hang your hat on the 2nd Round?  That was a great series for Rondo but I am far more concerned about how we lost the Finals.  Rondo's inability to shoot from the field and the FT line certainly did not help us.  Was he the main culprit?  No not at all, and in fact was the last to give in.  With Perk healthy and Ray hitting a couple of his threes we win the title.  But regardless, the sag off defense and poor shooting of Rondo are major problems with his game.

Umm you have to get past the 2nd round to get the Finals.  And we most certainly didn't lose the finals because of Rondo.  He was our best player.  Look to lack of rebounding and Allen for missing everything outside of game 2.  

lol you think Chris Paul couldn't have had a similar performance as Rondo?  Again Rondo played out of his mind but Paul could have tore Mo Williams up too for similar numbers.  They are very similar players except Paul can shoot.  Did you watch Paul carry NO in the Playoffs a few years ago?

Like I said and you ignored, Rondo was not at fault for the Finals loss but once Perk was hurt and Ray couldn't hit shots we were boned because Rondo can't shoot to save his life.

Chris Paul can dominate the ball and score when need be or facilitate the offense as well as Rondo.  Don't you think we could have used a dominate scorer from the PG position when Pierce was getting shut down by Ron Artest and Ray couldn't hit a 3 to save his life in Game 7?  You need multiple positibilities in the NBA to react to what other teams throw at you.

Rondo is a great PG but Paul is going to be the best of this generation.  It's not an insult to Rondo and what he has provided to Boston but it's the truth.

[celtsfan84]

I love how some people seem to think that Chris Paul would have been intimidated by the awesome challenge of one Mo Williams in Round 2. Please.  That series would have gone exactly the same way.  As would the Miami series and the Orlando series.

[Birdbrain]

My take - Rajon Rondo is a terrific player on both ends, young, on a great contract, and we should be happy to have him.  Few players in the NBA are better.

Chris Paul is one of those players.

Not only did Kobe's ability to play off of Rondo mess up Boston's team offense (it is a team game after all), but it allowed Kobe to be closer to the boards and help the Lakers dominate us here.  Kobe had 15 rebounds in Game 7.  Does not happen if he is away from the basket guarding Chris Paul.

Also, we are often afraid to put the ball in Rondo's hands at the end of games because of his awful free throw shooting.  As great as he is, he is often a liability.

Wondering where the information that Chris Paul is a bad defensive player comes from?  Just because he gets steals?  Getting steals alone doesn't make you a great defensive player but it doesn't make you a bad one.  Pippen, Jordan, Alvin Robertson, Rondo himself, they all have high steal numbers.

With Rajon Rondo we have 1 championship.  Great.  Glad to have one. With Chris Paul we almost certainly would have 2.

Keep in mind that Rajon has played with 3 hall of famers just past their primes while Paul has played with 0.

I love the revisionism.  The dude dominated Cleveland unlike anything Chris Paul would have ever done.  He essentially made the Cavs and LJ quit with his game 4 performance which is so far in past that everyone forgets..

What did he revise?

Apparently you hang your hat on the 2nd Round?  That was a great series for Rondo but I am far more concerned about how we lost the Finals.  Rondo's inability to shoot from the field and the FT line certainly did not help us.  Was he the main culprit?  No not at all, and in fact was the last to give in.  With Perk healthy and Ray hitting a couple of his threes we win the title.  But regardless, the sag off defense and poor shooting of Rondo are major problems with his game.

Umm you have to get past the 2nd round to get the Finals.  And we most certainly didn't lose the finals because of Rondo.  He was our best player.  Look to lack of rebounding and Allen for missing everything outside of game 2.  

lol you think Chris Paul couldn't have had a similar performance as Rondo?  Again Rondo played out of his mind but Paul could have tore Mo Williams up too for similar numbers.  They are very similar players except Paul can shoot.  Did you watch Paul carry NO in the Playoffs a few years ago?

Like I said and you ignored, Rondo was not at fault for the Finals loss but once Perk was hurt and Ray couldn't hit shots we were boned because Rondo can't shoot to save his life.

Chris Paul can dominate the ball and score when need be or facilitate the offense as well as Rondo.  Don't you think we could have used a dominate scorer from the PG position when Pierce was getting shut down by Ron Artest and Ray couldn't hit a 3 to save his life in Game 7?  You need multiple positibilities in the NBA to react to what other teams throw at you.

Rondo is a great PG but Paul is going to be the best of this generation.  It's not an insult to Rondo and what he has provided to Boston but it's the truth.

No I don't think Paul would have done what Rondo did in game 4.  That's a bit crazy to even think he could.

If Rondo wasn't the issue you probably should have just left your Finals point out.  You were basically saying he was part of the problem while saying he's wasn't.  A win/win so to speak.  (The I don't mean to offend you, but you suck concept).

FYI, I'm very familiar with Paul's game.  Very talented, lot's of stats.  I've been watching him since college.  He seems like a pretty awful person but, that's neither here nor there.  I don't think a trade for him is even logically possible but, if DA somehow swing it I'll get on board.  

[CeltsAcumen]

First off let me say I cant stand Bill Simmons, he cries about everything.  "Oh I lost my childhood innocence when Manny Ramirez got busted for PEDs....Oh I cannot write good articles since the Red Sox won a second world series...blah, blah blah.  The guy is a hack and a cry baby and I am a Boston fan (for most everything except Hockey).

As for the trade, am I the only one who believes Rondo is either as good or on the same level as CP3?  If there are 5 top PGs in the game, CP3, Deron Williams, Rose, the kid from Sacramento, Rondo has to be the 5th.

But some of the potential deals are interesting.  My Guess is that NY has seen an opening and will try and get him.

Right now the Lakers are kicking themselves in the ass for signing Blake and Fisher.

HAHAHAHA. Your top 5 is laughable. CP3? Yes. Deron Williams? Yes. Derrick Rose? Hell to the no. He doesn;t even know what the word 'defense' means. Top 10, but not top 5. I take it "that kid from Sacramento" is Tyreke Evans? He just got off an amazing rookie season, he's not there yet, but he soon will be.

Top 5 PGs in the NBA (IMO):
Chris Paul
Steve Nash
Deron Williams
Chauncey Billups
Rajon Rondo

Umm...Ok, You used "laughable?"  

So three of my top 5 are on your list.  One of your list is an aged player who isnt even better than Ty Lawson a rookie and the other is Nash, which I will concede is probably better but he is also about 46 years old.

So my LAUGHABLE top 5 is basically the same as yours with Rose instead of Nash.

Great analysis there chief.  MY point which went right over your head, was that CP3 is not that much better than Rondo to make a deal unless the Celts have something or someone else in mind, hence people's trade with Perk/C and Rasheeds contract.

[nba is the worst]

My take - Rajon Rondo is a terrific player on both ends, young, on a great contract, and we should be happy to have him.  Few players in the NBA are better.

Chris Paul is one of those players.

Not only did Kobe's ability to play off of Rondo mess up Boston's team offense (it is a team game after all), but it allowed Kobe to be closer to the boards and help the Lakers dominate us here.  Kobe had 15 rebounds in Game 7.  Does not happen if he is away from the basket guarding Chris Paul.

Also, we are often afraid to put the ball in Rondo's hands at the end of games because of his awful free throw shooting.  As great as he is, he is often a liability.

Wondering where the information that Chris Paul is a bad defensive player comes from?  Just because he gets steals?  Getting steals alone doesn't make you a great defensive player but it doesn't make you a bad one.  Pippen, Jordan, Alvin Robertson, Rondo himself, they all have high steal numbers.

With Rajon Rondo we have 1 championship.  Great.  Glad to have one. With Chris Paul we almost certainly would have 2.

Keep in mind that Rajon has played with 3 hall of famers just past their primes while Paul has played with 0.

I love the revisionism.  The dude dominated Cleveland unlike anything Chris Paul would have ever done.  He essentially made the Cavs and LJ quit with his game 4 performance which is so far in past that everyone forgets..

I saw LJ quit, but I didn't see anyone "make him"...

[Birdbrain]

I love how some people seem to think that Chris Paul would have been intimidated by the awesome challenge of one Mo Williams in Round 2. Please.  That series would have gone exactly the same way.  As would the Miami series and the Orlando series.

Yeah you called that one.  That's exactly what I meant.  You deserved every TP you got especially when you agree with the people that are giving you the TPs.

[Snakehead]

My take - Rajon Rondo is a terrific player on both ends, young, on a great contract, and we should be happy to have him.  Few players in the NBA are better.

Chris Paul is one of those players.

Not only did Kobe's ability to play off of Rondo mess up Boston's team offense (it is a team game after all), but it allowed Kobe to be closer to the boards and help the Lakers dominate us here.  Kobe had 15 rebounds in Game 7.  Does not happen if he is away from the basket guarding Chris Paul.

Also, we are often afraid to put the ball in Rondo's hands at the end of games because of his awful free throw shooting.  As great as he is, he is often a liability.

Wondering where the information that Chris Paul is a bad defensive player comes from?  Just because he gets steals?  Getting steals alone doesn't make you a great defensive player but it doesn't make you a bad one.  Pippen, Jordan, Alvin Robertson, Rondo himself, they all have high steal numbers.

With Rajon Rondo we have 1 championship.  Great.  Glad to have one. With Chris Paul we almost certainly would have 2.

Keep in mind that Rajon has played with 3 hall of famers just past their primes while Paul has played with 0.

I love the revisionism.  The dude dominated Cleveland unlike anything Chris Paul would have ever done.  He essentially made the Cavs and LJ quit with his game 4 performance which is so far in past that everyone forgets..

What did he revise?

Apparently you hang your hat on the 2nd Round?  That was a great series for Rondo but I am far more concerned about how we lost the Finals.  Rondo's inability to shoot from the field and the FT line certainly did not help us.  Was he the main culprit?  No not at all, and in fact was the last to give in.  With Perk healthy and Ray hitting a couple of his threes we win the title.  But regardless, the sag off defense and poor shooting of Rondo are major problems with his game.

Umm you have to get past the 2nd round to get the Finals.  And we most certainly didn't lose the finals because of Rondo.  He was our best player.  Look to lack of rebounding and Allen for missing everything outside of game 2.  

lol you think Chris Paul couldn't have had a similar performance as Rondo?  Again Rondo played out of his mind but Paul could have tore Mo Williams up too for similar numbers.  They are very similar players except Paul can shoot.  Did you watch Paul carry NO in the Playoffs a few years ago?

Like I said and you ignored, Rondo was not at fault for the Finals loss but once Perk was hurt and Ray couldn't hit shots we were boned because Rondo can't shoot to save his life.

Chris Paul can dominate the ball and score when need be or facilitate the offense as well as Rondo.  Don't you think we could have used a dominate scorer from the PG position when Pierce was getting shut down by Ron Artest and Ray couldn't hit a 3 to save his life in Game 7?  You need multiple positibilities in the NBA to react to what other teams throw at you.

Rondo is a great PG but Paul is going to be the best of this generation.  It's not an insult to Rondo and what he has provided to Boston but it's the truth.

No I don't think Paul would have done what Rondo did in game 4.  That's a bit crazy to even think he could.

If Rondo wasn't the issue you probably should have just left your Finals point out.  You were basically saying he was part of the problem while saying he's wasn't.  A win/win so to speak.  (The I don't mean to offend you, but you suck concept).

FYI, I'm very familiar with Paul's game.  Very talented, lot's of stats.  I've been watching him since college.  He seems like a pretty awful person but, that's neither here nor there.  I don't think a trade for him is even logically possible but, if DA somehow swing it I'll get on board.  

What is crazy about it?  Chris Paul can't pass, drive to the hoop?  Get steals?  What couldn't he do that Rondo did?

Rondo wasn't the most glaring issue in our Finals loss because Rondo's weaknesses are known quantities to Celtics fans. But like I said if Rondo could dominate the ball and score like Chris Paul can then we could of won the Finals regardless of Ray's dissapearing act from 3 and Perks injury.  You have no argument to the contrary, but nice try.

If you watched the Celtics give KG successfull touches every few times down to court to score on Gasol and then try to iso Pierce only to be shut down... yeah those were our only real options but that was because we have Rondo who can't shoot or score reliably.  Chris Paul can.  If we have him out there the floor is openend up for everyone else and he can score himself.

Being one of the biggest public figures in a rebuilding New Orleans and all that charity work he did... yeah Chris Paul seems like a bad guy.  

[celtsfan84]

Yes, I do agree with them.

Chris Paul is better than Rajon Rondo.
Rajon Rondo is better than Mo Williams.

Chris Paul is way better than Mo Williams and would have dominated him and we would have won the series.  

Also worth noting, the sky is blue, the grass is green.

LeBron quitting on his team has also been a pretty big storyline, in case you missed any NBA news.