Paul is better than Rondo

[Rondo9dunx]

No one has brought it up yet so I will...


Rondo is on a team with 3 hall of famers...

Paul is on a team with.... oh wait i honestly cant name a single other player on that team...

Rondo's numbers are SICK if you take into consideration that he has Paul Pierce, Ray Allen and KG on the floor with him. Even if they are past thier prime now they are still better than most players and can all score, rebound and make assists.

Cant wait to see rondo play every game of his career in green.
And that one guy was right there is something special about Rondo and I dont think we've seen him at his best yet

[BballTim]

One other thing people might not be aware of:  Rondo is only nine months younger than Paul.  For people who say that Rondo can improve...  so can Paul.

  While this is true, I'd expect more improvement from Rondo because IMO he was farther from his ceiling last year than Paul was. A lot of it depends on how well the big three play, however. Rondo's clearly capable of scoring at least 16-18 points a game but he'd just as soon keep the big three involved in the game as carve out a bigger role on offense for himself.

How do we know Rondo is further away?

  After all the posts last summer about how Danny shouldn't sign Rondo to an extension because it was likely he would regress as a player during the 09-10 season, I'll pass on this one. If you think that Rondo's going to improve less than Paul based on what you've seen of them over the last few years then we'll just have to disagree on the issue.

I didn't say Paul would improve more then Rondo.


I said how do we know who will improve more.


You might think Rondo because he has a lot more skills that are lower then Pauls (shooting and TOs)


But we do not know. 

So it is pointless to throw that out there as an argument of who the Celtics should want. 



Two young players (9 months apart).  One of them is better now.  The other, we hope reaches close to the 1st level. 

  I didn't say Rondo WOULD improve more. I clearly said it was my opinion. I don't think it's pointless to talk about  because I think it's extremely likely.

  But what about all the other things we don't know? We don't know that Paul will be healthy over the next couple of years when he's coming back from injury.

  And obviously we don't *know* that the offense will be any better with CP at pg than Rondo. Wasn't it equally silly for people to throw that out as an argument of who the Celts should want?

No.  If one player is better then the other, why wouldn't you want the other player?

Is Rondo going to be healthy over the next couple of years?  He takes more big hits then most guys his size.   

Again, we do not know.  Neither has had a recurring injury. 

  Whatever. I guess if you get top decide what arguments people are allowed to make, it probably increases your chances of winning the argument. Other than that, I don't see your point.

[wdleehi]

  Whatever. I guess if you get top decide what arguments people are allowed to make, it probably increases your chances of winning the argument. Other than that, I don't see your point.

No one is telling you what argument to make or not to make.  I am pointing out the flaw I see.


But if your only argument to my point is "I guess if you get top decide what arguments people are allowed to make, it probably increases your chances of winning the argument"; then your original argument must have been weak.

[BballTim]

  Whatever. I guess if you get top decide what arguments people are allowed to make, it probably increases your chances of winning the argument. Other than that, I don't see your point.

No one is telling you what argument to make or not to make.  I am pointing out the flaw I see.


But if your only argument to my point is "I guess if you get top decide what arguments people are allowed to make, it probably increases your chances of winning the argument"; then your original argument must have been weak.

  You're pointing out the "flaw" you see in my argument, but that same "flaw" exists in about half the posts here. You're being totally arbitrary.

  Is it pointless to argue that Rondo will likely improve more than CP if we don't *know* that he will?

  Yes.

  Is it pointless to argue that the offense will be better with CP than it is with Rondo when we don't *know* it will be?

  No.

  Go figure.

[wdleehi]

  Whatever. I guess if you get top decide what arguments people are allowed to make, it probably increases your chances of winning the argument. Other than that, I don't see your point.

No one is telling you what argument to make or not to make.  I am pointing out the flaw I see.


But if your only argument to my point is "I guess if you get top decide what arguments people are allowed to make, it probably increases your chances of winning the argument"; then your original argument must have been weak.

  You're pointing out the "flaw" you see in my argument, but that same "flaw" exists in about half the posts here. You're being totally arbitrary.

  Is it pointless to argue that Rondo will likely improve more than CP if we don't *know* that he will?

  Yes.

  Is it pointless to argue that the offense will be better with CP than it is with Rondo when we don't *know* it will be?

  No.

  Go figure.

I didn't argue that.


I said trade for the better player.

[BballTim]

  Whatever. I guess if you get top decide what arguments people are allowed to make, it probably increases your chances of winning the argument. Other than that, I don't see your point.

No one is telling you what argument to make or not to make.  I am pointing out the flaw I see.


But if your only argument to my point is "I guess if you get top decide what arguments people are allowed to make, it probably increases your chances of winning the argument"; then your original argument must have been weak.

  You're pointing out the "flaw" you see in my argument, but that same "flaw" exists in about half the posts here. You're being totally arbitrary.

  Is it pointless to argue that Rondo will likely improve more than CP if we don't *know* that he will?

  Yes.

  Is it pointless to argue that the offense will be better with CP than it is with Rondo when we don't *know* it will be?

  No.

  Go figure.

I didn't argue that.


I said trade for the better player.

  Are you saying that when you quoted my post and said "No." you weren't responding to anything in my post?

[K.J.]

I think that this debate about trading for Paul is purely hypothetical.

First, we do not have the assets to do so until about 15th December, due to the three-month no-trade rule regarding former free agents in the Collective Bargaining Agreement.  After 15th December, we could not make a blockbuster trade in mid-season without decimating the depth of our squad and remain contenders.

Second, I agree that Paul is the better player.  He is a top five NBA player, or what Elrod Enchilada calls the best player on a championship team.  Most championship teams consisted of at least one such player.  In my opinion, Rajon Rondo would have to improve his long jump shot and free throw by next season if he were to ever move into the top five. 

If Rondo could become a top five player by next season, we do not have to trade for Paul, as it would only annihilate our roster for minor improvements at point guard.  However, even if Ainge decides to blow up the squad in mid-season as we are no longer contenders, I doubt that Paul would ever jump off the proverbial frying pan into the fire by joining another rebuilding team.

[GreenEnvy]

I think that this debate about trading for Paul is purely hypothetical.

First, we do not have the assets to do so until about 15th December, due to the three-month no-trade rule regarding former free agents in the Collective Bargaining Agreement.  After 15th December, we could not make a blockbuster trade in mid-season without decimating the depth of our squad and remain contenders.

Second, I agree that Paul is the better player.  He is a top five NBA player, or what Elrod Enchilada calls the best player on a championship team.  Most championship teams consisted of at least one such player.  In my opinion, Rajon Rondo would have to improve his long jump shot and free throw by next season if he were to ever move into the top five. 

If Rondo could become a top five player by next season, we do not have to trade for Paul, as it would only annihilate our roster for minor improvements at point guard.  However, even if Ainge decides to blow up the squad in mid-season as we are no longer contenders, I doubt that Paul would ever jump off the proverbial frying pan into the fire by joining another rebuilding team.

Sure it's hypothetical, but it's July, what should we do? The schedule doesn't even come out for another 2 weeks.

As for assets, our two biggest assets for NO is probably Rondo and BBD, both of which are available now. Our next biggest asset is 'Sheed's contract, available now. Then of course, there are draft picks, which are also available. So hypothetically speaking, we can make a deal.

For us, doing a trade now would leave us thin up front with Perk out for the first half. We can't wait til the deadline because then we won't have 'Sheed's contract available.

Trading Rondo for Paul isn't attempting to "blow things up" because we will easily make the playoffs as the East is top-heavy, and this past season proved that we can make a run, so we definitely won't become a rebuilding team.


Most likely the Hornets just move Collison and an expiring contract (Songalia ~$5M) for an all-star, then look to move Peja's ~$15M expiring contract near the deadline if there are any takers. That's if they are willing to spend. If they aren't, they need to move him (or sell the team). Rondo offers not too much of a drop-off in talent, but a substantial savings both now and in the future.

[winsomme]

One other thing people might not be aware of:  Rondo is only nine months younger than Paul.  For people who say that Rondo can improve...  so can Paul.

  While this is true, I'd expect more improvement from Rondo because IMO he was farther from his ceiling last year than Paul was. A lot of it depends on how well the big three play, however. Rondo's clearly capable of scoring at least 16-18 points a game but he'd just as soon keep the big three involved in the game as carve out a bigger role on offense for himself.

what are CPs and Rondo's ceilings based on for you?

[winsomme]

One other thing people might not be aware of:  Rondo is only nine months younger than Paul.  For people who say that Rondo can improve...  so can Paul.

  While this is true, I'd expect more improvement from Rondo because IMO he was farther from his ceiling last year than Paul was. A lot of it depends on how well the big three play, however. Rondo's clearly capable of scoring at least 16-18 points a game but he'd just as soon keep the big three involved in the game as carve out a bigger role on offense for himself.

How do we know Rondo is further away?

  After all the posts last summer about how Danny shouldn't sign Rondo to an extension because it was likely he would regress as a player during the 09-10 season, I'll pass on this one. If you think that Rondo's going to improve less than Paul based on what you've seen of them over the last few years then we'll just have to disagree on the issue.

I didn't say Paul would improve more then Rondo.


I said how do we know who will improve more.


You might think Rondo because he has a lot more skills that are lower then Pauls (shooting and TOs)


But we do not know.  

So it is pointless to throw that out there as an argument of who the Celtics should want.  



Two young players (9 months apart).  One of them is better now.  The other, we hope reaches close to the 1st level.  

  I didn't say Rondo WOULD improve more. I clearly said it was my opinion. I don't think it's pointless to talk about  because I think it's extremely likely.

  But what about all the other things we don't know? We don't know that Paul will be healthy over the next couple of years when he's coming back from injury.

  And obviously we don't *know* that the offense will be any better with CP at pg than Rondo. Wasn't it equally silly for people to throw that out as an argument of who the Celts should want?

I think the argument that the Cs offense would improve is based on CP being the superior offensive player while being at least on par in terms of running an offense and distributing the basketball....so from that perspective there is less uncertainty it seems to me in projecting improvement in the Cs offense (Rondo v. CP) compared with projecting improvement in Rondo's game?

I mean, do you dispute that CP is the superior offensive player? He has a much more diverse offense (three's, mid-range, driving), he gets the FT line twice as much and hits his FTs at a much higher clip, and his A/T ratio is right there with Rondo's....

[Bankshot]

I can't believe this is a debate.  Paul is CLEARLY the better player. 

[wiley]

Rondo is a grittier player, and by virtue of his incredible basketball brain does a lot of things that Paul will never do.  Paul has always had more overall talent.  But he has less of a basketball brain, and has yet to show Rondo's level of grit imo (some of the grit is a result of the off-charts bbIQ, staying in a play when other fall asleep, etc).  When Paul inspires awe it's not because of his amazing smarts, it's because he can take over a game offensively while still providing excellent PG play, quite a package.

I don't know how you can fairly say Paul is better, unless you're using outside shooting and free thow percentage in like 90 % of your equation...

I think Rondo's better overall even with the glaring flaw (Shaq wasn't considered not the best center because of no free throw ability)....and regarding outside shooting, I think Rondo's overall offense and shooting percentage help negate his lesser proficiency from outside compared to Paul.

I think Paul would have also had some rough games if he were on the Celtics during their recent playoff runs, and people would complain about an off-shooting night or a ball pounding night where no one else got it going, etc...)  Paul is great, but he's not Michael Jordan great.

I think we'll get a better sense by the end of this upcoming season.....let's see if the argument swings in favor of the shooter or the brain.

Their are no stats for brains.

[greg_kite]

The great thing about this, at the end of the day, we will have either Rajon Rondo or Chris Paul as our starting point guard. 

[Roy Hobbs]

Rondo is a grittier player, and by virtue of his incredible basketball brain does a lot of things that Paul will never do.  Paul has always had more overall talent.  But he has less of a basketball brain, and has yet to show Rondo's level of grit imo (some of the grit is a result of the off-charts bbIQ, staying in a play when other fall asleep, etc).  When Paul inspires awe it's not because of his amazing smarts, it's because he can take over a game offensively while still providing excellent PG play, quite a package.

I think a lot of people are overrating Rondo's BBIQ.  Didn't we all just watch the playoffs, where for entire games Rondo refused to penetrate, and would simply dribble to the top of the key before bringing the ball back out?  Didn't we see other games where he failed to get the ball to Paul Pierce, who at times was the hottest player on the court?   Didn't we see him start to force a lot of bad passes at times?  Didn't we see a play break down at the end of a half in the playoffs because Rondo refused to run the play to Pierce as directed by Doc?

I guess I'm just not seeing the tremendous BBIQ that he possesses but that CP3 doesn't.  Both are excellent point guards, but both make their share of mistakes, as well.  

[BballTim]

Second, I agree that Paul is the better player.  He is a top five NBA player, or what Elrod Enchilada calls the best player on a championship team.  Most championship teams consisted of at least one such player.  In my opinion, Rajon Rondo would have to improve his long jump shot and free throw by next season if he were to ever move into the top five. 

  One could easily argue that Rondo came within a few minutes of a game 7 of being the best player on a championship team.