Author Topic: Paul is better than Rondo  (Read 30367 times)

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Re: Paul is better than Rondo
« Reply #45 on: July 22, 2010, 12:51:48 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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There are a few things we know about the NBA.  If the overall talent level of the team goes down, player's numbers often go up.  It's the "hey, someone's gotta score" theory.  So yes, Rondo's scoring numbers may go up in the future, as he generates more of the offense himself.
So you're really saying that Paul's numbers are inflated because he's playing on a god-awful team, right?
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Re: Paul is better than Rondo
« Reply #46 on: July 22, 2010, 12:53:54 PM »

Offline Who

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There are a few things we know about the NBA.  If the overall talent level of the team goes down, player's numbers often go up.  It's the "hey, someone's gotta score" theory.  So yes, Rondo's scoring numbers may go up in the future, as he generates more of the offense himself.
So you're really saying that Paul's numbers are inflated because he's playing on a god-awful team, right?
I think Chris Paul's numbers are inflated ... due to lack of offensive talent around him + the offensive system New Orleans runs.

Re: Paul is better than Rondo
« Reply #47 on: July 22, 2010, 12:56:27 PM »

Offline Celtics Fan

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Not only is Paul better than Rondo, I think he's significantly so.  Rondo is a top five PG, but there's still a large gap between the two players.  I expect there will be until Rondo becomes a competent shooter on his jumper and free throws.  Paul is also more consistent in terms of bringing his "A" game.

There's no shame in not being the best point guard in the league, though.  Rondo is an excellent young point guard; I just think he has a more flawed game than CP3, and I don't expect those flaws to ever be completely remedied.

We could won the finals this year with Rajon the guy kept us in alot of game, you guys sure forget. I hope we trade him and see what we will be missing, and then you guys will be whinning lets bring Rajon back, by then he'll be too expensive.

We could have won the Finals with Paul, too.

For whatever reason, Rondo wasn't that good against Orlando or LA.  In his final 10 games of the playoffs, he had 10+ assists twice, and shot above 50% twice.  In those final 10 games, he also shot 16-for-39 (41%) on free throws.

With a better effort from our point guard, would we have won a title?  It's hard to say, but it's entirely possible.  I don't want to downplay Rondo's contributions, but I also don't want to anoint him as some infallible superstar.  CP3 is simply a much better player than he is.

  Without knowing the full story, you could draw a line through Rondo's playoffs before and after he had to leave the game in Orlando with leg/back spasms and his numbers (especially shooting percentages) were markedly worse afterward.

Great point. He play with back spasm, boy how soon do we all forget.

Re: Paul is better than Rondo
« Reply #48 on: July 22, 2010, 12:58:58 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Not only is Paul better than Rondo, I think he's significantly so.  Rondo is a top five PG, but there's still a large gap between the two players.  I expect there will be until Rondo becomes a competent shooter on his jumper and free throws.  Paul is also more consistent in terms of bringing his "A" game.

  But what if you put Rondo on a team without the big three so he's more of a focal point of the offense? If he's getting 18-19 points and 11 or so assists and Paul's getting 21/11 with Rondo still playing great defense and rebounding well is it still a significant gap? Also, it's a lot easier to appear to bring your "A" game more often if you're the focus of the offense every night.

  Paul's a better free throw shooter, which is important. But while he's clearly a better outside shooter Rondo seems to be much better at getting to the hoop. One stretches the floor, but the other can be devastating, as the Cavs will tell you.
and if you are the focus of your offense, you are also the focus of the defense and thus are double teamed more often and the guys guarding you are brining their "A" game.

  I see this in every discussion about Rondo but it doesn't really happen. When Rondo's been a bigger part of the offense (mainly due to injuries) he's picked up his scoring without any dropoff in his scoring efficiency.

Paul is better then Rondo.  It isn't close, you seem to acknowledge this, but yet seem to argue you'd still rather have Rondo which really doesn't make any sense.

  Paul may be better than Rondo but it's probably closer than you think. Again, put Paul on the Celts and his numbers will drop. Put Rondo on a team without the big three and his numbers go up. Put him on a team with 2-3 younger/more athletic players that are good in the transition game and he's in the argument for the best pg in the league.

  Oh, and you also have to factor in Paul's injury history, and the fact that Rondo's still improving.

Re: Paul is better than Rondo
« Reply #49 on: July 22, 2010, 01:00:25 PM »

Offline BballTim

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There are a few things we know about the NBA.  If the overall talent level of the team goes down, player's numbers often go up.  It's the "hey, someone's gotta score" theory.  So yes, Rondo's scoring numbers may go up in the future, as he generates more of the offense himself.
So you're really saying that Paul's numbers are inflated because he's playing on a god-awful team, right?

  I think next year we'll be saying that LeBron's numbers were inflated wwhen he was playing on the team with the best record in the league. It doesn't have to be god-awful.

Re: Paul is better than Rondo
« Reply #50 on: July 22, 2010, 01:06:49 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Not only is Paul better than Rondo, I think he's significantly so.  Rondo is a top five PG, but there's still a large gap between the two players.  I expect there will be until Rondo becomes a competent shooter on his jumper and free throws.  Paul is also more consistent in terms of bringing his "A" game.

There's no shame in not being the best point guard in the league, though.  Rondo is an excellent young point guard; I just think he has a more flawed game than CP3, and I don't expect those flaws to ever be completely remedied.

We could won the finals this year with Rajon the guy kept us in alot of game, you guys sure forget. I hope we trade him and see what we will be missing, and then you guys will be whinning lets bring Rajon back, by then he'll be too expensive.

We could have won the Finals with Paul, too.

For whatever reason, Rondo wasn't that good against Orlando or LA.  In his final 10 games of the playoffs, he had 10+ assists twice, and shot above 50% twice.  In those final 10 games, he also shot 16-for-39 (41%) on free throws.

With a better effort from our point guard, would we have won a title?  It's hard to say, but it's entirely possible.  I don't want to downplay Rondo's contributions, but I also don't want to anoint him as some infallible superstar.  CP3 is simply a much better player than he is.

  Without knowing the full story, you could draw a line through Rondo's playoffs before and after he had to leave the game in Orlando with leg/back spasms and his numbers (especially shooting percentages) were markedly worse afterward.


So, injury to a PG was an issue that effected the Celtics this past season?




  Again, it's possible, just like Ray getting kneed in the thigh affected us last season or the hamstring injury Ray had in the 2009 playoffs affected us, or Rondo having to play through ankle sprains in the playoffs have affected us. But compare that to Paul missing over 30 games this year, 20 games or so in another year and getting killed by Billups in the playoffs in 2009 (reportedly because of health issues).

Re: Paul is better than Rondo
« Reply #51 on: July 22, 2010, 01:12:06 PM »

Offline Celtics Fan

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Not only is Paul better than Rondo, I think he's significantly so.  Rondo is a top five PG, but there's still a large gap between the two players.  I expect there will be until Rondo becomes a competent shooter on his jumper and free throws.  Paul is also more consistent in terms of bringing his "A" game.

  But what if you put Rondo on a team without the big three so he's more of a focal point of the offense? If he's getting 18-19 points and 11 or so assists and Paul's getting 21/11 with Rondo still playing great defense and rebounding well is it still a significant gap? Also, it's a lot easier to appear to bring your "A" game more often if you're the focus of the offense every night.

  Paul's a better free throw shooter, which is important. But while he's clearly a better outside shooter Rondo seems to be much better at getting to the hoop. One stretches the floor, but the other can be devastating, as the Cavs will tell you.
and if you are the focus of your offense, you are also the focus of the defense and thus are double teamed more often and the guys guarding you are brining their "A" game.

  I see this in every discussion about Rondo but it doesn't really happen. When Rondo's been a bigger part of the offense (mainly due to injuries) he's picked up his scoring without any dropoff in his scoring efficiency.

Paul is better then Rondo.  It isn't close, you seem to acknowledge this, but yet seem to argue you'd still rather have Rondo which really doesn't make any sense.

  Paul may be better than Rondo but it's probably closer than you think. Again, put Paul on the Celts and his numbers will drop. Put Rondo on a team without the big three and his numbers go up. Put him on a team with 2-3 younger/more athletic players that are good in the transition game and he's in the argument for the best pg in the league.

  Oh, and you also have to factor in Paul's injury history, and the fact that Rondo's still improving.

Great point again...

Re: Paul is better than Rondo
« Reply #52 on: July 22, 2010, 01:16:43 PM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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The difference between Rondo and Paul isn't solely related to numbers.  Paul's shooting ability would simply make our offense significantly more well-rounded.  CP3 isn't a liability at anything, and unfortunately, Rondo is.

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Re: Paul is better than Rondo
« Reply #53 on: July 22, 2010, 01:17:48 PM »

Offline More Banners

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There are a few things we know about the NBA.  If the overall talent level of the team goes down, player's numbers often go up.  It's the "hey, someone's gotta score" theory.  So yes, Rondo's scoring numbers may go up in the future, as he generates more of the offense himself.
So you're really saying that Paul's numbers are inflated because he's playing on a god-awful team, right?

I'm saying that the numbers to look at are not the counting numbers (pts, ast), because those probably vary the most team-to-team because of the system and other players.  I'm also saying that I don't really get into the advanced stats, but that CP3 probably has, and will continue to have, an advantagge over Rondo in that regard, probably because of his superior shooting.

Re: Paul is better than Rondo
« Reply #54 on: July 22, 2010, 01:23:43 PM »

Offline crafty213

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Statistically Chris Paul is the best point guard the NBA has seen since Magic.  There is no question he is a better all around talent than Rondo and will continue to be.  How he would gel with the Big 3....no one knows BUT if you have the ability to get a talent like Paul you do it. 

Re: Paul is better than Rondo
« Reply #55 on: July 22, 2010, 01:51:07 PM »

Offline BballTim

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The difference between Rondo and Paul isn't solely related to numbers.  Paul's shooting ability would simply make our offense significantly more well-rounded.  CP3 isn't a liability at anything, and unfortunately, Rondo is.

  There are plenty of point guards that don't have as noticeable a flaw as Rondo's shooting that are significantly worse players than him.

  And if you sub Paul's numbers from last year for Rondo's, we go from 20th in shots near the rim (according to hoopdata) to 29th. And that's ignoring the Perk/JO switch, or Tony Allen leaving. We'd likely finish well last in the league in shots from the inside, which I wouldn't call significantly more well rounded.

Re: Paul is better than Rondo
« Reply #56 on: July 22, 2010, 02:09:51 PM »

Offline Snakehead

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The difference between Rondo and Paul isn't solely related to numbers.  Paul's shooting ability would simply make our offense significantly more well-rounded.  CP3 isn't a liability at anything, and unfortunately, Rondo is.

  There are plenty of point guards that don't have as noticeable a flaw as Rondo's shooting that are significantly worse players than him.

  And if you sub Paul's numbers from last year for Rondo's, we go from 20th in shots near the rim (according to hoopdata) to 29th. And that's ignoring the Perk/JO switch, or Tony Allen leaving. We'd likely finish well last in the league in shots from the inside, which I wouldn't call significantly more well rounded.

I don't think substituting those numbers gives you any sort of an accurate number.  They are completely different teams.  Paul would help us in the paint because he would prevent the sag off defense that clogs the lane with Rondo.
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Re: Paul is better than Rondo
« Reply #57 on: July 22, 2010, 02:15:37 PM »

Offline soap07

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Quote
 There are plenty of point guards that don't have as noticeable a flaw as Rondo's shooting that are significantly worse players than him.

Do you understand that in the Finals, the Lakers barely guarded Rondo? This has been a recurring issue for years now, not just because of injury.

Re: Paul is better than Rondo
« Reply #58 on: July 22, 2010, 02:17:50 PM »

Offline ScalPal

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No doubt Rondo is a great player but even if he hasnt hit his peak I dont think Paul has either.

Re: Paul is better than Rondo
« Reply #59 on: July 22, 2010, 02:20:40 PM »

Offline blake

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Nobody worried about health issues of CP3?