Does Danny value 'tweeners too much?

[BballTim]

All star bigs drafted at 19 or lower since 2000:

Jamaal Magloire
Zach Randolph
Mehmet okur
Carlos Boozer
David Lee

tashaun prince, josh boone,kirilinko.derek fisher, sam cassell,sam dalembert, john salmons, jason maxiell, jordon farmar, jamaal tinsley, aaron brooks, kendrick perkins #27,linus kleiza, pj brown, nazir mohammud, anderson varajo #30, gilbert areans 31,rashard lewis 32,brandon bass,   for you scal lovers and bbd both #35,cliff robinson and boozer 36, eddie house ronny turiaf 36,rafear allston monta ellis 39, 40..., pachula 41, cuttino mobley, michael redd 43, keith bogans 43, trevor aziza 43, paul milsap 47, marc gasol 49, powe blatch gomes, 49-50, these guys some bigs, some not, were all available around the later pics, you have to see beyond someones report, that is what makes the diff between knowledge, success, and being led, the teams that picked these guys didn't go with hype, they went with their basketball knowledge, earned by experience and paying attention as they live life, not just taking what others say as law.....use your own mind, and see what is, not what you are just told.

  First of all a lot of the guys you mentioned were, in fact, undersized players. Secondly, you're going back a dozen or so years, so the players you listed account for roughly 10% of the players drafted.

[FallGuy]

I knew it. The "Bring Back Gerald Green" thread is just around the corner.

Paddy O'Blount never could play. He was ambivalent on the floor in college, and he was ambivalent on the floor in the pros. That's why he's gone. NO ONE thinks he can play in the NBA.

It just staggers me that anyone would suggest that this stiff never got a chance. Minutes are earned with effort. When you don't give any - see O'Blount - you don't get any.

Blaming the failure of this guy - whose only NBA qualification is height - on a proven NBA coach is just mind-boggling.

this doesn't prove anything, scal got minutes, plenty of them, he got more than sheldon, your stats prove that sheldon was better, my view shows that also, you can't see it...well okay, not your fault, just not your thing. Same with o bryant, you couldn't see past what you were told, many others are the same, hey, in the 70's we were told there was no oil left, so we had the gas crunch, held hostage by lies again, someone told us it was gone, so you were told he was no good, others also, did you ever watch him in garbage time, he was good on the post, but only got the ball from rebounds, which are few in g-time, no one passes in the post in g-time, he blocked shots, played good position, ran the floor......you get none of this from scal, and many others, you get it from a guy you were told to hate.....hey, it is your life, so be led......!

You're kidding yourself. O'Bryant couldn't even get minutes on an abominable Raptor team with no inside presence at all. The guy flat out can't play (or just as likely - won't). To somehow equate disregarding this lazy non-achiever with mindless lemming-like behavior is rather amusing. Like Doc said, "Patrick needs to learn that we play hard ALL the time."

Still hasn't happened.

[KCattheStripe]

All star bigs drafted at 19 or lower since 2000:

Jamaal Magloire
Zach Randolph
Mehmet okur
Carlos Boozer
David Lee

tashaun prince, josh boone,kirilinko.derek fisher, sam cassell,sam dalembert, john salmons, jason maxiell, jordon farmar, jamaal tinsley, aaron brooks, kendrick perkins #27,linus kleiza, pj brown, nazir mohammud, anderson varajo #30, gilbert areans 31,rashard lewis 32,brandon bass,   for you scal lovers and bbd both #35,cliff robinson and boozer 36, eddie house ronny turiaf 36,rafear allston monta ellis 39, 40..., pachula 41, cuttino mobley, michael redd 43, keith bogans 43, trevor aziza 43, paul milsap 47, marc gasol 49, powe blatch gomes, 49-50, these guys some bigs, some not, were all available around the later pics, you have to see beyond someones report, that is what makes the diff between knowledge, success, and being led, the teams that picked these guys didn't go with hype, they went with their basketball knowledge, earned by experience and paying attention as they live life, not just taking what others say as law.....use your own mind, and see what is, not what you are just told.

  First of all a lot of the guys you mentioned were, in fact, undersized players. Secondly, you're going back a dozen or so years, so the players you listed account for roughly 10% of the players drafted.

Ok, you decided to list quality players and not All Stars from the past 20 + years and not the past 10 like my list. That's fine and I agree that you can find quality players,  20 perimeter players and 15 bigs, later in the draft. But in 20 years you found only 15 impact bigs, less than one a year, and blame Danny's " thinking like a guard" for that. Isn't it just as possible that  this is a year with no impact bigs? Also, whose to say that Bradley, who was the #1 recruit out of high school last year, and Harrangody, a very productive player on some untalented ND teams, won't be similar steals?

[Meadowlark_Scal]

All star bigs drafted at 19 or lower since 2000:

Jamaal Magloire
Zach Randolph
Mehmet okur
Carlos Boozer
David Lee

tashaun prince, josh boone,kirilinko.derek fisher, sam cassell,sam dalembert, john salmons, jason maxiell, jordon farmar, jamaal tinsley, aaron brooks, kendrick perkins #27,linus kleiza, pj brown, nazir mohammud, anderson varajo #30, gilbert areans 31,rashard lewis 32,brandon bass,   for you scal lovers and bbd both #35,cliff robinson and boozer 36, eddie house ronny turiaf 36,rafear allston monta ellis 39, 40..., pachula 41, cuttino mobley, michael redd 43, keith bogans 43, trevor aziza 43, paul milsap 47, marc gasol 49, powe blatch gomes, 49-50, these guys some bigs, some not, were all available around the later pics, you have to see beyond someones report, that is what makes the diff between knowledge, success, and being led, the teams that picked these guys didn't go with hype, they went with their basketball knowledge, earned by experience and paying attention as they live life, not just taking what others say as law.....use your own mind, and see what is, not what you are just told.

  First of all a lot of the guys you mentioned were, in fact, undersized players. Secondly, you're going back a dozen or so years, so the players you listed account for roughly 10% of the players drafted.

Ok, you decided to list quality players and not All Stars from the past 20 + years and not the past 10 like my list. That's fine and I agree that you can find quality players,  20 perimeter players and 15 bigs, later in the draft. But in 20 years you found only 15 impact bigs, less than one a year, and blame Danny's " thinking like a guard" for that. Isn't it just as possible that  this is a year with no impact bigs? Also, whose to say that Bradley, who was the #1 recruit out of high school last year, and Harrangody, a very productive player on some untalented ND teams, won't be similar steals?

Well, look i don't really disagree with you, in fact, there are so many know-it-alls here, it is hard to even keep on a thread. i do believe doc and danny have guard mentality, but that doesn't mean these two guys will not pan out...they may turn into great players, maybe even for us..! Hey, i hope they do...i still wonder why we didn't pick any big guys, there were a few centers there left over, that is probably my point, at least ONE of those bigs should have been worth a chance, but if they weren't drafted, maybe we can get them cheap, as undrafted guys...! I think we need a few bigs, to back up our team. Young ones, to play and learn from our guys. That is all. Direction can belost in email type, and can sound harder..i don't go at anyone here intentionally...but when called out, i am all for it...this isn't really directed at you...! A lot of people have a hard time hearing others point with out taking them on....that only shows little social skills, if someone likes a player, so what, doesn't mean the world will change because of this.

[Meadowlark_Scal]

I knew it. The "Bring Back Gerald Green" thread is just around the corner.

Paddy O'Blount never could play. He was ambivalent on the floor in college, and he was ambivalent on the floor in the pros. That's why he's gone. NO ONE thinks he can play in the NBA.

It just staggers me that anyone would suggest that this stiff never got a chance. Minutes are earned with effort. When you don't give any - see O'Blount - you don't get any.

Blaming the failure of this guy - whose only NBA qualification is height - on a proven NBA coach is just mind-boggling.

this doesn't prove anything, scal got minutes, plenty of them, he got more than sheldon, your stats prove that sheldon was better, my view shows that also, you can't see it...well okay, not your fault, just not your thing. Same with o bryant, you couldn't see past what you were told, many others are the same, hey, in the 70's we were told there was no oil left, so we had the gas crunch, held hostage by lies again, someone told us it was gone, so you were told he was no good, others also, did you ever watch him in garbage time, he was good on the post, but only got the ball from rebounds, which are few in g-time, no one passes in the post in g-time, he blocked shots, played good position, ran the floor......you get none of this from scal, and many others, you get it from a guy you were told to hate.....hey, it is your life, so be led......!

You're kidding yourself. O'Bryant couldn't even get minutes on an abominable Raptor team with no inside presence at all. The guy flat out can't play (or just as likely - won't). To somehow equate disregarding this lazy non-achiever with mindless lemming-like behavior is rather amusing. Like Doc said, "Patrick needs to learn that we play hard ALL the time."

Still hasn't happened.

like i simply said, i liked the way the guy played, you don't....so what. i put my 2 cents here to be considered, you put yours..hopefully as an original thought. if you didn't like him, then you can say that, is it ridiculous, of course not, this IS the 2 cents central, take a breath before your reply. Talk to people here as if they were standing next to you in a bar, a stranger watching the game, and you being responsible for your words, old school responsibility.

[BballTim]

All star bigs drafted at 19 or lower since 2000:

Jamaal Magloire
Zach Randolph
Mehmet okur
Carlos Boozer
David Lee

tashaun prince, josh boone,kirilinko.derek fisher, sam cassell,sam dalembert, john salmons, jason maxiell, jordon farmar, jamaal tinsley, aaron brooks, kendrick perkins #27,linus kleiza, pj brown, nazir mohammud, anderson varajo #30, gilbert areans 31,rashard lewis 32,brandon bass,   for you scal lovers and bbd both #35,cliff robinson and boozer 36, eddie house ronny turiaf 36,rafear allston monta ellis 39, 40..., pachula 41, cuttino mobley, michael redd 43, keith bogans 43, trevor aziza 43, paul milsap 47, marc gasol 49, powe blatch gomes, 49-50, these guys some bigs, some not, were all available around the later pics, you have to see beyond someones report, that is what makes the diff between knowledge, success, and being led, the teams that picked these guys didn't go with hype, they went with their basketball knowledge, earned by experience and paying attention as they live life, not just taking what others say as law.....use your own mind, and see what is, not what you are just told.

  First of all a lot of the guys you mentioned were, in fact, undersized players. Secondly, you're going back a dozen or so years, so the players you listed account for roughly 10% of the players drafted.

Ok, you decided to list quality players and not All Stars from the past 20 + years and not the past 10 like my list. That's fine and I agree that you can find quality players,  20 perimeter players and 15 bigs, later in the draft. But in 20 years you found only 15 impact bigs, less than one a year, and blame Danny's " thinking like a guard" for that. Isn't it just as possible that  this is a year with no impact bigs? Also, whose to say that Bradley, who was the #1 recruit out of high school last year, and Harrangody, a very productive player on some untalented ND teams, won't be similar steals?

Well, look i don't really disagree with you, in fact, there are so many know-it-alls here, it is hard to even keep on a thread. i do believe doc and danny have guard mentality, but that doesn't mean these two guys will not pan out...they may turn into great players, maybe even for us..! Hey, i hope they do...i still wonder why we didn't pick any big guys, there were a few centers there left over, that is probably my point, at least ONE of those bigs should have been worth a chance, but if they weren't drafted, maybe we can get them cheap, as undrafted guys...! I think we need a few bigs, to back up our team. Young ones, to play and learn from our guys. That is all.

  I think that, outside very top picks, smalls are a better risk than bigs. I haven't checked, but I'll bet that if you looked at picks 17-21 or 50-54 over the last 5-10 years the guards and small forwards chosen in those ranges do better than the bigs, which are generally reaches. Bradley might have A 50-50 chance or better of being a player (for example) but one of the bigs we were supposedly looking at (that lasted 10-25 picks later) might have a 20% chance of making it.

[Meadowlark_Scal]

All star bigs drafted at 19 or lower since 2000:

Jamaal Magloire
Zach Randolph
Mehmet okur
Carlos Boozer
David Lee

tashaun prince, josh boone,kirilinko.derek fisher, sam cassell,sam dalembert, john salmons, jason maxiell, jordon farmar, jamaal tinsley, aaron brooks, kendrick perkins #27,linus kleiza, pj brown, nazir mohammud, anderson varajo #30, gilbert areans 31,rashard lewis 32,brandon bass,   for you scal lovers and bbd both #35,cliff robinson and boozer 36, eddie house ronny turiaf 36,rafear allston monta ellis 39, 40..., pachula 41, cuttino mobley, michael redd 43, keith bogans 43, trevor aziza 43, paul milsap 47, marc gasol 49, powe blatch gomes, 49-50, these guys some bigs, some not, were all available around the later pics, you have to see beyond someones report, that is what makes the diff between knowledge, success, and being led, the teams that picked these guys didn't go with hype, they went with their basketball knowledge, earned by experience and paying attention as they live life, not just taking what others say as law.....use your own mind, and see what is, not what you are just told.

  First of all a lot of the guys you mentioned were, in fact, undersized players. Secondly, you're going back a dozen or so years, so the players you listed account for roughly 10% of the players drafted.

Ok, you decided to list quality players and not All Stars from the past 20 + years and not the past 10 like my list. That's fine and I agree that you can find quality players,  20 perimeter players and 15 bigs, later in the draft. But in 20 years you found only 15 impact bigs, less than one a year, and blame Danny's " thinking like a guard" for that. Isn't it just as possible that  this is a year with no impact bigs? Also, whose to say that Bradley, who was the #1 recruit out of high school last year, and Harrangody, a very productive player on some untalented ND teams, won't be similar steals?

Well, look i don't really disagree with you, in fact, there are so many know-it-alls here, it is hard to even keep on a thread. i do believe doc and danny have guard mentality, but that doesn't mean these two guys will not pan out...they may turn into great players, maybe even for us..! Hey, i hope they do...i still wonder why we didn't pick any big guys, there were a few centers there left over, that is probably my point, at least ONE of those bigs should have been worth a chance, but if they weren't drafted, maybe we can get them cheap, as undrafted guys...! I think we need a few bigs, to back up our team. Young ones, to play and learn from our guys. That is all.

  I think that, outside very top picks, smalls are a better risk than bigs. I haven't checked, but I'll bet that if you looked at picks 17-21 or 50-54 over the last 5-10 years the guards and small forwards chosen in those ranges do better than the bigs, which are generally reaches. Bradley might have A 50-50 chance or better of being a player (for example) but one of the bigs we were supposedly looking at (that lasted 10-25 picks later) might have a 20% chance of making it.

You may be 100% right.....but...sooner or later, somehow, you have to get some 6'10-7'  or you'll have a team going no where.....right....? So, sure, pick up the guards in the draft, but then find all the big guys you can, look past the first 5 workouts, and see what you can make him into, you have to take a few chances on the bigs, i mean, what are you going to do without them...some are born, some are made...you get the home made ones cheaper..!

[Dchuck]

BBalltim,

Not necessarily.

After a little research, here is a quick rundown of our draft picks from 2003 on compared to players still on the board.

2003
Celtics - Marcus Banks
Available - David West, Josh Howard, Keith Bogans, Kyle Korver

2004
Celtics - Delonte West, T. Allen
Available - Kevin Martin
Celtics - Justin Reed
Available - Trevor Ariza

2005
Celtics - Gerald Green
Available -David Lee, Brandon Bass, Andray Blatche
Celtics - Ryan Gomes, Orien Greene
Available - Marcin Gortat

2007
Celtics - Gabe Pruit
Available - Marc Gasol

And finally a recent one where swapping these players really hurts....

2008
Celtics - JR Giddens
Available - Deandre Jordan

D. Jordan, who in the last three games of the regular season had 10 pts 15 reb, 10 pts 13 reb, 12 pts 9 reb.  At 6-11, 250 pounds, sounds like somoeone who could've helped this year and next, particularly with Perk's injury.

[Meadowlark_Scal]

That also is a point i have been thinking of, everyone thinks they can just sign some instant big free agent to solve our problems...well, instant things may be fast, but they ain't always good, that is why i say it is worth the risk of trying to go a little further to develop a big guy into a player....there just isn't enough big, good players around. Like bass and maxiell, until they got more playing time, they were throw aways, people on their previous team said they didn't see the worth in them.....usually the coach is under too much pressure from the top to win and produce to have a few side prospects, but that is the extra mile where it can pay off very well. Can't teach height.

[Meadowlark_Scal]

BBalltim,

Not necessarily.

After a little research, here is a quick rundown of our draft picks from 2003 on compared to players still on the board.

2003
Celtics - Marcus Banks
Available - David West, Josh Howard, Keith Bogans, Kyle Korver

2004
Celtics - Delonte West, T. Allen
Available - Kevin Martin
Celtics - Justin Reed
Available - Trevor Ariza

2005
Celtics - Gerald Green
Available -David Lee, Brandon Bass, Andray Blatche
Celtics - Ryan Gomes, Orien Greene
Available - Marcin Gortat

2007
Celtics - Gabe Pruit
Available - Marc Gasol

And finally a recent one where swapping these players really hurts....

2008
Celtics - JR Giddens
Available - Deandre Jordan

D. Jordan, who in the last three games of the regular season had 10 pts 15 reb, 10 pts 13 reb, 12 pts 9 reb.  At 6-11, 250 pounds, sounds like somoeone who could've helped this year and next, particularly with Perk's injury.

Wow, maybe i was right after all.....! The first time in a row, ask my "friends" here...LOL...! That was some righteous research....! TP..!!!!!!!!!

[Meadowlark_Scal]

Those are all guards.....!

[Dchuck]

Tell you what, DeAndre Jordan looks really enticing.  Although he only has one year in check out the Clippers front line roster.

Blake Griffin
Chris Kaman
Travis Outlaw
Craig Smith
Drew Gooden
Steve Novak
Brian Skinner

Wonder if he may be expendable?  Probably not, but why not kick the tires on this one?

[pearljammer10]

I dont understand the tweener picks... How is a combo guard going to help us? We've been down this road before it doesnt help. Same with a tweener forward. Doesnt make sense. Also, the threads to bring back Ryan Gomes doesnt make sense either. Another tweener is not what the roster needs at all.

[Dchuck]

I dont understand the tweener picks... How is a combo guard going to help us? We've been down this road before it doesnt help. Same with a tweener forward. Doesnt make sense. Also, the threads to bring back Ryan Gomes doesnt make sense either. Another tweener is not what the roster needs at all.

Agreed....kinda'.

Tired of tweeners, YES! YES! YES!

However in Gomes' case, he is a good role player and serviceable backup for Pierce.  Especially since we have no backup three anymore (bye, bye Marquis, Finley, Scal).

Problem is our biggest NEED is on the front line.  And that NEEDS to be priority #1.

[KCattheStripe]

BBalltim,

Not necessarily.

After a little research, here is a quick rundown of our draft picks from 2003 on compared to players still on the board.

2003
Celtics - Marcus Banks
Available - David West, Josh Howard, Keith Bogans, Kyle Korver

2004
Celtics - Delonte West, T. Allen
Available - Kevin Martin
Celtics - Justin Reed
Available - Trevor Ariza

2005
Celtics - Gerald Green
Available -David Lee, Brandon Bass, Andray Blatche
Celtics - Ryan Gomes, Orien Greene
Available - Marcin Gortat

2007
Celtics - Gabe Pruit
Available - Marc Gasol

And finally a recent one where swapping these players really hurts....

2008
Celtics - JR Giddens
Available - Deandre Jordan

D. Jordan, who in the last three games of the regular season had 10 pts 15 reb, 10 pts 13 reb, 12 pts 9 reb.  At 6-11, 250 pounds, sounds like somoeone who could've helped this year and next, particularly with Perk's injury.

2003: This was also the same Draft Danny made a move for Kendrick Perkins

2004: Both Tony Allen and Delonte West have been very productive NBA players. i can't fault Danny for missing on KMart when so many others did too, especially after Tony's Final Four run. I also can't fault Danny for missing on a high school project that slipped to the 2nd round.

Edit because I forgot:  HE DRAFTED AL FREAKING JEFFERSON IN THIS DRAFT!

2005: He took a chance on Gerald and missed, that happens to the best GMs. 25 teams passed on Gortat as well.

2007: Pruitt was a bad pick, but 18 teams passed on Marc Gasol twice. also, Danny drafted Big Baby also.

2008: We needed wing depth, there was no sign of KGs injury coming. Our big rotation was Perk, KG, Baby, Powe.

If anything, I think Danny's weakness is spotting foreign players.