Paul Pierce gets it, KG doesn't... (booing)

[guava_wrench]

The whole Bucks in round one thing is interesting though.....that's where I get confused with the why we are so bad at home thing of recent.

You think the Celtics being bad at home is a recent thing?

The Celtics lost 3 of their first 8 games at home this year.

They were 3-4 in seven games in January at home.

They lost three straight games at home in two different months this year.

The Celtics have lost a game at home by 10 or more points in every month this year but December.

The Celtics have lost at home to the following non playoff teams: Washington, New Jersey, Philadelphia, Houston and Memphis.

The patrons at the Garden have seen 16 losses at home this year. That's 4 more losses at home than the last two years combined and only 4 less than in 2005-06 when the Celtics only won 33 games that year.

The fact that the crowd at the Garden took this long to start booing the consistent horrible efforts they have seen at home this year, to me, is a testament of their patience and love for this team. You haven't heard this crowd boo this team in years. I think they are justified in doing it now given what this team has shown.

And I agree with cdif. I hated when people tried booing the team in 2005-06 and 2006-07. Those teams were young and not very talented and gave everything they had, often being in a game until the very end. Booing that is awful

Booing a team because they have a bad game a couple times a year at home is also awful.

But a team full of talent and experience giving no effort game after game for and entire home season? I see nothing wrong with finally, close to the end of the season booing them.

"The fact that the crowd at the Garden took this long to start booing the consistent horrible efforts they have seen at home this year, to me, is a testament of their patience and love for this team."

Huh?

When do you think they started booing? I have heard fans booing for months now.

I can see the love for the team (whether or not this includes the players), but not the patience. We are like other northeast cities -- very impatient and intolerant when it comes to sports.

[barefacedmonk]

I feel for KG on this one. KG relies on his emotional intensity, and it is very difficult to maintain intensity once the booing starts.

I fear a little that the team's morale may be lower at home these days.

The love of booing is a very northeast thing. I'm not a fan of it. It is counter productive. Sure, it is the right of the person paying money to insult players, refs, coaches, etc if they want to. But I am far more concerned with getting the most out of the team. Booing doesn't help get the most out of a team.

Why would you expect someone who gives his all each time out to understand fan booing?

If I were a player, I might avoid the northeast due to the lack of loyalty and sense of entitlement fans show. Boo a player like Blatche, Blount, Sheed, or Ricky Davis. Players that are self-indulgent or lazy. The only reason I can see for booing KG is his poor sportsmanship on the court -- which isn't the reason people boo.

You have to expect that a player who wears his heart on his sleeve will be hurt more when fans treat them like that.

I was just about to go to bed....but had to log in to give you a TP for this post...well said, GW.

[Roy Hobbs]

I feel for KG on this one. KG relies on his emotional intensity, and it is very difficult to maintain intensity once the booing starts.

I fear a little that the team's morale may be lower at home these days.

The love of booing is a very northeast thing. I'm not a fan of it. It is counter productive. Sure, it is the right of the person paying money to insult players, refs, coaches, etc if they want to. But I am far more concerned with getting the most out of the team. Booing doesn't help get the most out of a team.

Why would you expect someone who gives his all each time out to understand fan booing?

If I were a player, I might avoid the northeast due to the lack of loyalty and sense of entitlement fans show. Boo a player like Blatche, Blount, Sheed, or Ricky Davis. Players that are self-indulgent or lazy. The only reason I can see for booing KG is his poor sportsmanship on the court -- which isn't the reason people boo.

You have to expect that a player who wears his heart on his sleeve will be hurt more when fans treat them like that.

To be clear, the fans weren't booing KG.  They were booing the Celtics team, on a night when their captain admitted they weren't playing with their best effort.

I guess I understand if KG takes it personally, but he needs to be able to look around him and examine the effort his teammates are putting in.  The exact wrong thing to do is criticize the fans on a night when the team doesn't show up.

Also, the booing is a recent thing, after months of efforts like this, so I don't think it explains the home losses.  I'd attribute those to increased complacency at home, but that's just a guess.

[nickagneta]

The whole Bucks in round one thing is interesting though.....that's where I get confused with the why we are so bad at home thing of recent.

You think the Celtics being bad at home is a recent thing?

The Celtics lost 3 of their first 8 games at home this year.

They were 3-4 in seven games in January at home.

They lost three straight games at home in two different months this year.

The Celtics have lost a game at home by 10 or more points in every month this year but December.

The Celtics have lost at home to the following non playoff teams: Washington, New Jersey, Philadelphia, Houston and Memphis.

The patrons at the Garden have seen 16 losses at home this year. That's 4 more losses at home than the last two years combined and only 4 less than in 2005-06 when the Celtics only won 33 games that year.

The fact that the crowd at the Garden took this long to start booing the consistent horrible efforts they have seen at home this year, to me, is a testament of their patience and love for this team. You haven't heard this crowd boo this team in years. I think they are justified in doing it now given what this team has shown.

And I agree with cdif. I hated when people tried booing the team in 2005-06 and 2006-07. Those teams were young and not very talented and gave everything they had, often being in a game until the very end. Booing that is awful

Booing a team because they have a bad game a couple times a year at home is also awful.

But a team full of talent and experience giving no effort game after game for and entire home season? I see nothing wrong with finally, close to the end of the season booing them.

"The fact that the crowd at the Garden took this long to start booing the consistent horrible efforts they have seen at home this year, to me, is a testament of their patience and love for this team."

Huh?

When do you think they started booing? I have heard fans booing for months now.

I can see the love for the team (whether or not this includes the players), but not the patience. We are like other northeast cities -- very impatient and intolerant when it comes to sports.

Months now? Really. I haven't.

I heard it first in March. I think it was the Memphis game where they started going nuts booing the team as they left at halftime. That was the start of it. But then the Celtics went on a sustained run of decent home games with wins over Indy, Detroit, New York, Denver and Sacramento before their string of bad recent games.

I haven't heard any sustained string of games with the crowd loudly booing this team.

[Roy Hobbs]

The whole Bucks in round one thing is interesting though.....that's where I get confused with the why we are so bad at home thing of recent.

You think the Celtics being bad at home is a recent thing?

The Celtics lost 3 of their first 8 games at home this year.

They were 3-4 in seven games in January at home.

They lost three straight games at home in two different months this year.

The Celtics have lost a game at home by 10 or more points in every month this year but December.

The Celtics have lost at home to the following non playoff teams: Washington, New Jersey, Philadelphia, Houston and Memphis.

The patrons at the Garden have seen 16 losses at home this year. That's 4 more losses at home than the last two years combined and only 4 less than in 2005-06 when the Celtics only won 33 games that year.

The fact that the crowd at the Garden took this long to start booing the consistent horrible efforts they have seen at home this year, to me, is a testament of their patience and love for this team. You haven't heard this crowd boo this team in years. I think they are justified in doing it now given what this team has shown.

And I agree with cdif. I hated when people tried booing the team in 2005-06 and 2006-07. Those teams were young and not very talented and gave everything they had, often being in a game until the very end. Booing that is awful

Booing a team because they have a bad game a couple times a year at home is also awful.

But a team full of talent and experience giving no effort game after game for and entire home season? I see nothing wrong with finally, close to the end of the season booing them.

"The fact that the crowd at the Garden took this long to start booing the consistent horrible efforts they have seen at home this year, to me, is a testament of their patience and love for this team."

Huh?

When do you think they started booing? I have heard fans booing for months now.

I can see the love for the team (whether or not this includes the players), but not the patience. We are like other northeast cities -- very impatient and intolerant when it comes to sports.

Months now? Really. I haven't.

I heard it first in March. I think it was the Memphis game where they started going nuts booing the team as they left at halftime. That was the start of it. But then the Celtics went on a sustained run of decent home games with wins over Indy, Detroit, New York, Denver and Sacramento before their string of bad recent games.

I haven't heard any sustained string of games with the crowd loudly booing this team.

That's my feeling, as well. 

[Roy Hobbs]

For those who think the booing is a chronic problem in Boston, here were Paul's words in March (after being blown out by Memphis):

"You come out on your home court, get this kind of loss, and get booed by your home court. I haven’t been on a court where we’ve been booed ... it’s been a couple times this year. It’s been about five or six years since I’ve seen that. We’re still 17 games over .500. All the fans want is a constant effort night in and night out. I think we gotta be more consistent with that regardless of if we win or lose.”

So, there's Paul saying the crowd booed "a couple" of times this season, and hasn't done so in the past 5 or 6 years.  He attributes the booing to inconsistent effort.

Now, here we are a month later, and the exact same thing is happening, so of course the fans are going to again voice their displeasure: the team hasn't learned anything.  However, the main point is that this isn't a chronic issue.  Rather, it's a reaction pinpointed at one discrete issue:  the apathy from the team on the court.

[guava_wrench]

I feel for KG on this one. KG relies on his emotional intensity, and it is very difficult to maintain intensity once the booing starts.

I fear a little that the team's morale may be lower at home these days.

The love of booing is a very northeast thing. I'm not a fan of it. It is counter productive. Sure, it is the right of the person paying money to insult players, refs, coaches, etc if they want to. But I am far more concerned with getting the most out of the team. Booing doesn't help get the most out of a team.

Why would you expect someone who gives his all each time out to understand fan booing?

If I were a player, I might avoid the northeast due to the lack of loyalty and sense of entitlement fans show. Boo a player like Blatche, Blount, Sheed, or Ricky Davis. Players that are self-indulgent or lazy. The only reason I can see for booing KG is his poor sportsmanship on the court -- which isn't the reason people boo.

You have to expect that a player who wears his heart on his sleeve will be hurt more when fans treat them like that.

To be clear, the fans weren't booing KG.  They were booing the Celtics team, on a night when their captain admitted they weren't playing with their best effort.

I guess I understand if KG takes it personally, but he needs to be able to look around him and examine the effort his teammates are putting in.  The exact wrong thing to do is criticize the fans on a night when the team doesn't show up.

Also, the booing is a recent thing, after months of efforts like this, so I don't think it explains the home losses.  I'd attribute those to increased complacency at home, but that's just a guess.

You can try to tell KG what he should be doing, and he can tell you what you should be doing. Where does that get us?

I suppose we could tell KG to not give his all (a la Pierce at many moments in his career) so that he won't feel as demoralized when booed, but he is who he is.

I feel that Wyc and the owners have a gripe against KG as he should not undermine their ability to bring in fans. But considering how earnest and respectful KG typically is in each interview he give, we are getting a sense of how he is being affected by fans turning on the team.

I expect that KG is far more frustrated than we fans are, even without us dumping on him.

[guava_wrench]

For those who think the booing is a chronic problem in Boston, here were Paul's words in March (after being blown out by Memphis):

"You come out on your home court, get this kind of loss, and get booed by your home court. I haven’t been on a court where we’ve been booed ... it’s been a couple times this year. It’s been about five or six years since I’ve seen that. We’re still 17 games over .500. All the fans want is a constant effort night in and night out. I think we gotta be more consistent with that regardless of if we win or lose.”

So, there's Paul saying the crowd booed "a couple" of times this season, and hasn't done so in the past 5 or 6 years.  He attributes the booing to inconsistent effort.

Now, here we are a month later, and the exact same thing is happening, so of course the fans are going to again voice their displeasure: the team hasn't learned anything.  However, the main point is that this isn't a chronic issue.  Rather, it's a reaction pinpointed at one discrete issue:  the apathy from the team on the court.

Thank you for the clarifying quote.

I think it has been 3 years. I seem to remember boos at games I attended the season before KG came.

Do you think the Celtics are more apathetic at home than on the road (and thus, the better road record)? How can we differentiate between being outplayed and being apathetic? Or being demoralize and being apathetic? The reason I ask is that after attending the Spurs game, I heard some fan say, "the reason they lost is the other team wanted the game more". We are familiar with this empty cliche.

I though the Celtics lost because the Spurs played better defense and we couldn't figure it out. I thought we played really hard, though we looked like crap in the second half.

I probably need to compare tape with this season and 2 years ago to see if people actually tried harder then, or if we were just a better team.

[guava_wrench]

Despite my comments, I do wish their was a way to boo Sheed without involving anyone else. Sheed really annoys me.

[KungPoweChicken]

I'm a little late hopping into this discussion, but I was watching KG in the post game, live, when it happened, and I was shocked when he said it. In fact, I was so surprised he said it I had to rewind it and watch it again. I figured I heard something wrong, or I misunderstood him. Was this guy really calling out the fans after that effort? It was a total smack in the face to every Celtic fan.

That comment certainly left a bad taste in my mouth. But I have to give it up to Paul. After KG's line, it would have been easy for Paul to say something similar, but he spoke the truth.


Now that's out of the way. Can we boot KG out of the post game interview and insert Rondo? Who's with me?

[KungPoweChicken]

Does anyone remember when the Boston crowd got the MVP chant going for Kobe Bryant? Those were dark times.

[Scottie]

Boo loudly. Boo your lungs off. You should let management, the coaches and the team know you're not happy. Otherwise, if you keep quiet, they just might think that the crap they are giving you is acceptable, and it's not.

What nonsense.

Do you seriously think that the players are happy with how they have been playing and think it's acceptable?? Is there any indication of that in anything you have heard them say??

 But, if you still think the team is playing hard every night, or if you think it's okay that they lose games because they don't play with energy, more power to you.

And there it is. Because I don't share the same opinion as you I apparently think the exact polar opposite...that everything is OK and there's no problem. There's that good old black/white scenario.

Eh...  in case you've forgotten, these were your words:

And that's exactly what you are getting. Nowhere is there any mention of the team having to meet any particular individual's perception of effort, heart or hustle.

You pay to watch a game of basketball and that's what you get. It's that simple.

If anyone can find anywhere where the purchase of a ticket guarantees you a certain level of individually perceived effort or satisfaction I will stand corrected. But, as I understand it, you buy the ticket on the Celtic's terms, not your own.

Is a perceived lack of effort being confused with the fact that these guys are getting old and can't quite do what they used to?

So, rather than accuse me of putting words in your mouth, I'd gently ask you to go back and re-read what you posted less than an hour ago.

Where have I actually said what my opinion on the actual effort of the team is? That hasn't been discussed and is essentially irrelevant to the discussion anyway.

My point, once again, is that all too often when people don't agree with one person's opinion or action (booing in this case), then they are automatically seen to be at the other end of the argument as to the situation (i.e. if I do not boo then I must think the situation is acceptable).

It's an easy (and conveniently lazy) way of trying to dismiss someone's point of view.

I fail to see how it's lazy or dismissive when somebody responds to your specific words (i.e., a ticket doesn't entitle a fan to a certain level of effort, the lack of effort is only "perceived", etc.)  However, if you're going to fall back on the "I've actually held back my opinion, so that nobody can call me on it" card, again, more power to you.

Haven't held back at all. It hasn't been relevant to the discussion so it's redundant to make that the issue. Second time I've mentioned that now.

I do not like booing however, and I am skeptical as to reasons people give to justify why they do so. Ultimately a pretty simple concept. But it's yet another discussion here that has devolved into a black/white, love it/hate it mindset.

I really would prefer not to go back and forth with you and get further and further from the actual point, especially since I have made mine, regardless of whether you actually understand it or not.

[PierceMVP08]

I think the fans are right to boo.  The team hasn't put out the effort.  That doesn't mean we don't support them but it's a kick in the butt.  How is that any different than when KG calls out his teammates?  Remember when he made big baby cry?  Have you seen him yell at his teammates?  Now all this booing is bad for their morale?  Come on now, lets get serious.  The way KG barks at guys, he should be the last one to get upset.  

As for the guy who who said that when we buy tickets we are not guaranteed effort and that we buy tickets on their terms, in the same token they are not guaranteed mindless cheering.  If i see a poor effort I'm going to let them know.  No where on the ticket does it say you have to cheer for a team regardless of results.

And lets be clear, KG was not the one being booed, it was the teams effort.  If he is the effort guy he is supposed to be, he should agree with the fans.  You want me to stay home, KG?  Thats exactly what I have done.  I haven't spent my money on a lackluster effort this year, save one game.  

One last thing.  For those of you who say the team knows that they haven't been performing well and that booing won't help, when are they going to correct this???  It's been going on for more than half the season.  Obviously self reflection hasnt helped.  I can't see how booing can make things any worse?  You think KG is going home and feeling hurt about the booing or playing worse because of the booing, you are kidding yourself.

[Kiorrik]

Imagine a whole garden booing you. How many people is that? Tens of thousands? All of them booing.

Now imagine the adrenaline (seriously, adrenaline is a big thing when you play sports) you get from a Garden that's cheering you on. Calling your name. Chanting MVP. Arguing every call made by refs.

You guys think Sheed can sway the momentum? Just one person? But it's impossible for tens of thousands to do the same thing? You're definitely kidding yourself.

To me, cheering is productive, booing will make matters worse.

I still stand by this, and I love KG for speaking his mind. Where the fans have the right to boo, I think KG should have the right to call the booers out as well. After all, he works his behind off every night to give you guys his very best.

What do players on the bench do when the team plays bad? Boo them? No of course not. They're part of the team. You cheer them on for what they do well, bring energy, energize.

But no, Bostons crowd has to sap whatever energy is left by booing. Very productive indeed.

[cdif911]

Imagine a whole garden booing you. How many people is that? Tens of thousands? All of them booing.

Now imagine the adrenaline (seriously, adrenaline is a big thing when you play sports) you get from a Garden that's cheering you on. Calling your name. Chanting MVP. Arguing every call made by refs.

You guys think Sheed can sway the momentum? Just one person? But it's impossible for tens of thousands to do the same thing? You're definitely kidding yourself.

To me, cheering is productive, booing will make matters worse.

I still stand by this, and I love KG for speaking his mind. Where the fans have the right to boo, I think KG should have the right to call the booers out as well. After all, he works his behind off every night to give you guys his very best.

What do players on the bench do when the team plays bad? Boo them? No of course not. They're part of the team. You cheer them on for what they do well, bring energy, energize.

But no, Bostons crowd has to sap whatever energy is left by booing. Very productive indeed.

this is coming from a guy who made Baby cry by yelling at him, no? =)