Author Topic: Rondo is Average  (Read 41073 times)

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Re: Rondo is Average
« Reply #45 on: March 11, 2010, 02:12:24 AM »

Offline Asce

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Rondo is not an average point guard. Average players don't accomplish the things he has accomplished to this point.

Having said that, he has obvious warts to his game. Would I trade him for CP3, Deron Williams, or Rose, in a NY minute, but those guys are the best young PG's in the league.  Rondo is not the problem.  It's just because we are playing so terribly right now, its easy to pick on the "warts".

While I agree with the notion of Paul for Rondo, Williams and Rose are inferior players (Rose being the least productive of this quartet).

Rondo has actually outperformed Williams in productivity their last 4 seasons in the league (of course, you always have to pace-adjust for 48 minutes).

For example,

Rondo (rookie): 43.1% (Adj.FG%), 7.8 assists, 4.7 personal fouls, 13.1 points scored, 7.6 rebounds, 3.3 steals, and 3.7 turnovers; posted a 0.189 wp48 in 06-07.

D-Will (sophomore): 49.6% (Adj.FG%), 12.1 assists, 4.2 personal fouls, 21.1 points scored, 4.3 rebounds, 1.3 steals, and 4.1 turnovers; posted a 0.149 wp48 in 06-07.

When comparing their (per 48 minute) stats, one can see where Rondo and Williams were below-average and above-average.

While at first glance it does appear as if Rondo is the less productive player, when you actually measure the mean value (above-average performance versus below-average performance), the net sum of Williams' season is one that is slightly below that of (the rookie) Rondo's.

In their third season and fourth season (respectively), the disparity in production was even more noticeable.

Rondo (last season): 51.6% (Adj.FG%), 12.1 assists, 3.4 personal fouls, 17.3 points scored, 7.6 rebounds, 2.8 steals, 3.8 turnovers; posted a 0.332 wp48 in 08-09.

D-Will (last season): 50.3% (Adj.FG%), 14.0 assists, 2.6 personal fouls, 25.3 points scored, 3.7 rebounds, 1.4 steals, 4.4 turnovers; posted a 0.228 wp48 in 08-09.

This season, Rondo's play has declined somewhat (in comparison to last year), whereas Williams is playing slightly better.

Rondo though, is still the better point guard.

Re: Rondo is Average
« Reply #46 on: March 11, 2010, 03:05:41 AM »

Offline KungPoweChicken

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Back in the championship year, the big three, collectively, attempted 41.1 shots a contest. This year, collectively, they attempt 35.2, which means more touches for Perkins and Rondo. We all know Perkins has no business ever touching the ball. Him attempting 7 shots a game is criminal. Rondo is attempting too many shots, too. Any time any of Ray, Paul, or Kevin are only getting of 3 shots a game, we have not chance of winning. I want less razzle dazzle out of Rondo and more of simply finding the open man and getting out of the way.

Re: Rondo is Average
« Reply #47 on: March 11, 2010, 03:25:31 AM »

Offline Scribbles

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I agree and disagree. Rondo is a good player, however he is not a player you can build a championship team around as the main component.(heck probably not even a 2nd round playoff team_  When we won the championship he was the 4th/5th piece.  This year he's probably between the 3rd/4th piece of a team.  I'm a firm believer of Rondo being the biggest beneficiary of playing with the Big 3 on this team.  However if Rondo is the 3rd/4th option on a good team, I think he is  a solid player and can put up solid stats like he's doing now.

People here however are way to biased of Rondo and think he's the 2nd coming.  If I'm wrong I'll eat my words, but when/if Rondo is the center piece of the Celts in a few years this team is at tops a 1st round playoff team.   

Re: Rondo is Average
« Reply #48 on: March 11, 2010, 05:01:31 AM »

Offline rav123

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Rondo is not an average point guard. Average players don't accomplish the things he has accomplished to this point.

Having said that, he has obvious warts to his game. Would I trade him for CP3, Deron Williams, or Rose, in a NY minute, but those guys are the best young PG's in the league.  Rondo is not the problem.  It's just because we are playing so terribly right now, its easy to pick on the "warts".

While I agree with the notion of Paul for Rondo, Williams and Rose are inferior players (Rose being the least productive of this quartet).

Rondo has actually outperformed Williams in productivity their last 4 seasons in the league (of course, you always have to pace-adjust for 48 minutes).

For example,

Rondo (rookie): 43.1% (Adj.FG%), 7.8 assists, 4.7 personal fouls, 13.1 points scored, 7.6 rebounds, 3.3 steals, and 3.7 turnovers; posted a 0.189 wp48 in 06-07.

D-Will (sophomore): 49.6% (Adj.FG%), 12.1 assists, 4.2 personal fouls, 21.1 points scored, 4.3 rebounds, 1.3 steals, and 4.1 turnovers; posted a 0.149 wp48 in 06-07.

When comparing their (per 48 minute) stats, one can see where Rondo and Williams were below-average and above-average.

While at first glance it does appear as if Rondo is the less productive player, when you actually measure the mean value (above-average performance versus below-average performance), the net sum of Williams' season is one that is slightly below that of (the rookie) Rondo's.

In their third season and fourth season (respectively), the disparity in production was even more noticeable.

Rondo (last season): 51.6% (Adj.FG%), 12.1 assists, 3.4 personal fouls, 17.3 points scored, 7.6 rebounds, 2.8 steals, 3.8 turnovers; posted a 0.332 wp48 in 08-09.

D-Will (last season): 50.3% (Adj.FG%), 14.0 assists, 2.6 personal fouls, 25.3 points scored, 3.7 rebounds, 1.4 steals, 4.4 turnovers; posted a 0.228 wp48 in 08-09.

This season, Rondo's play has declined somewhat (in comparison to last year), whereas Williams is playing slightly better.

Rondo though, is still the better point guard.

Thing is, even though they are individual stats, the team has an effect of them. DWill gets buckets of assists passing to losers in Utah. (of course, now, one might say those guys are better than our guys). Playing on our championship team he may have averaged 16 points and 16 assists.

Rose isn't as good as Rondo though. I think Rondo could put up about 18/5/9 on the Bulls team, which is probably better than Rose's 20/4/6

Re: Rondo is Average
« Reply #49 on: March 11, 2010, 09:23:55 AM »

Offline MBz

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Rondo is not an average point guard. Average players don't accomplish the things he has accomplished to this point.

Having said that, he has obvious warts to his game. Would I trade him for CP3, Deron Williams, or Rose, in a NY minute, but those guys are the best young PG's in the league.  Rondo is not the problem.  It's just because we are playing so terribly right now, its easy to pick on the "warts".

While I agree with the notion of Paul for Rondo, Williams and Rose are inferior players (Rose being the least productive of this quartet).

Rondo has actually outperformed Williams in productivity their last 4 seasons in the league (of course, you always have to pace-adjust for 48 minutes).

For example,

Rondo (rookie): 43.1% (Adj.FG%), 7.8 assists, 4.7 personal fouls, 13.1 points scored, 7.6 rebounds, 3.3 steals, and 3.7 turnovers; posted a 0.189 wp48 in 06-07.

D-Will (sophomore): 49.6% (Adj.FG%), 12.1 assists, 4.2 personal fouls, 21.1 points scored, 4.3 rebounds, 1.3 steals, and 4.1 turnovers; posted a 0.149 wp48 in 06-07.

When comparing their (per 48 minute) stats, one can see where Rondo and Williams were below-average and above-average.

While at first glance it does appear as if Rondo is the less productive player, when you actually measure the mean value (above-average performance versus below-average performance), the net sum of Williams' season is one that is slightly below that of (the rookie) Rondo's.

In their third season and fourth season (respectively), the disparity in production was even more noticeable.

Rondo (last season): 51.6% (Adj.FG%), 12.1 assists, 3.4 personal fouls, 17.3 points scored, 7.6 rebounds, 2.8 steals, 3.8 turnovers; posted a 0.332 wp48 in 08-09.

D-Will (last season): 50.3% (Adj.FG%), 14.0 assists, 2.6 personal fouls, 25.3 points scored, 3.7 rebounds, 1.4 steals, 4.4 turnovers; posted a 0.228 wp48 in 08-09.

This season, Rondo's play has declined somewhat (in comparison to last year), whereas Williams is playing slightly better.

Rondo though, is still the better point guard.

I'm sure it took you a while to make this post, but you can show me any number you want that says Rondo is better then Deron Williams and I will not believe them.  There is just no way Rondo is better then Williams.  Williams is on the Chris Paul level for PGs.  It's those 2 and then everyone else.  Rondo is just simply not that at that level.
do it

Re: Rondo is Average
« Reply #50 on: March 11, 2010, 10:58:49 AM »

Offline RJ87

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talk about baiting in a thread title.

Rondo is 4th in the league in assists, he's 1st in steals, and up until this season, he was one of the top 2 players at his position for rebounding.

Average? Come on.

Yeah, really ... have to totally agree with IP, here (TP). I mean how many PG's have had to take over the point in their second year in the NBA, (after not really playing much their first season), be the starter and on-the-court leader of a team with three superstars, (two who were just acquired), and take that team to it's first NBA Championship in over twenty years?!? I've been following this kid from his amazing High School years through to the present, and I'm sorry, but anyone who sees him as "average" either knows very little about basketball, or has been watching him play with their eyes shut. There is nothing average about Rajon save for his easy demeanor, and if he stays healthy, he will undoubtedly become one of the NBA's great Point Guards, and possibly one of the best PG's of all time.


I have to agree also. The skills and the talent that Rondo brings to this team is nothing to warrant a "Rondo is average" post. Like someone mentioned before, there's no way he can be average when he has coaches like PJ and others praising him and his abilities.Even Nash had to praise him for his talent!

His quickness, his trickery, his steals, and his his high basketball IQ is nothing to call average. Hes not like your typical PG and that is why he is great for the team. Just because the team is sucking right now, should not be a reason for Rondo to mainly be at blame. Yes, he still needs to learn to shoot, but right now, that is not something that should be the reason for him supposedly being average.

Rondo def isn't average. Is he a superstar talent? I don't know. But I think its unfair that some say you can't build around him - look at the success that he's had in a system that's clearly not built around him and his attributes. Honestly, I think if you put some quicker, more athletic peices around him, he can be a franchise player.

But as the C's system currently is, we play too slow (so sick of fastbreaks where Rondo has to pull up cuz no one is running with him) and players are too unathletic to really. Even so, he's still one of the top PG's in the league.

Imagine him in a Phoenix type of system, that up tempo game. He can be a cornerstone player, but he needs players that can keep up with him.
2021 Houston Rockets
PG: Kyrie Irving/Patty Mills/Jalen Brunson
SG: OG Anunoby/Norman Powell/Matisse Thybulle
SF: Gordon Hayward/Demar Derozan
PF: Giannis Antetokounmpo/Robert Covington
C: Kristaps Porzingis/Bobby Portis/James Wiseman

Re: Rondo is Average
« Reply #51 on: March 11, 2010, 11:01:49 AM »

Offline hubert.the.potato

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All we need is Cousins.Then Rondo is set.

Re: Rondo is Average
« Reply #52 on: March 11, 2010, 11:16:27 AM »

Offline acieEarl

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Rondo need players that will run with him and that rebound the ball. We don't need a player like Sheed who jacks up 3s and doesn't rebound. Blow up the whole dame thing and build around perk and Rondo.

Sign Rudy Gay quickly next year.

Re: Rondo is Average
« Reply #53 on: March 11, 2010, 11:28:05 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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Rondo is a top PG.


He isn't one of the few PGs you build your team around.  (Paul and Williams look like the only two young ones out there right now)

Re: Rondo is Average
« Reply #54 on: March 11, 2010, 11:37:28 AM »

Offline acieEarl

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Rondo is a top PG.


He isn't one of the few PGs you build your team around.  (Paul and Williams look like the only two young ones out there right now)

I'm not saying Rondo is guy to build around, what I'm saying is the only guys I would def keep is Rondo and Perk. Both have reasonable contracts, and are young. Chris Paul can't do it on this own and Williams has alot of help. This team needs to get younger and the longer we wait the less value our older guys have.

Re: Rondo is Average
« Reply #55 on: March 11, 2010, 11:55:49 AM »

Offline jpd985

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I think he is a above average player but he is not on the Chris Paul/Deron Williams level. His defense and shooting (his FTs have been much better lately) keep him from reaching that upper level.

Re: Rondo is Average
« Reply #56 on: March 11, 2010, 04:14:10 PM »

Offline RJ87

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Sign Rudy Gay quickly next year.

too bad we don't have money.
All we have to offer this summer is the MLE - and say what you want about Gay, but he will get more than that... are real chance to put some young, athletic talent around Rondo was moving Ray's expiring. We didn't and now we're have the team we have.
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SG: OG Anunoby/Norman Powell/Matisse Thybulle
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PF: Giannis Antetokounmpo/Robert Covington
C: Kristaps Porzingis/Bobby Portis/James Wiseman

Re: Rondo is Average
« Reply #57 on: March 11, 2010, 04:24:57 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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Rondo is a top PG.


He isn't one of the few PGs you build your team around.  (Paul and Williams look like the only two young ones out there right now)

I'm not saying Rondo is guy to build around, what I'm saying is the only guys I would def keep is Rondo and Perk. Both have reasonable contracts, and are young. Chris Paul can't do it on this own and Williams has alot of help. This team needs to get younger and the longer we wait the less value our older guys have.


I wouldn't look to move him either.

And I do not think he is average. 

Re: Rondo is Average
« Reply #58 on: March 11, 2010, 04:37:17 PM »

Offline CelticG1

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People are way to into D williams in my opinion. He has had great talent around him for years and hasn't done anything, at all. If he is "the man" or an MVP type player his team would be doing much better than they have over the years. Chris Paul I understand, D williams I don't.

Re: Rondo is Average
« Reply #59 on: March 11, 2010, 05:10:09 PM »

Offline CelticG1

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Also, what franchise, cornerstone,  MVP type point guards have ever led their team anywhere?