Why I want Danny gone

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Danny's failure, ironically enough, will be the same failure that Red had: loyalty.

The same thing that caused the downfall of the 80's will be the downfall of the 10's - an aging team that needs to trade a piece in order to span the bridge to the future. 

I wouldn't even bring this up but Danny already has, because it was Danny who stated that Red should have dealt a member of the original Big 3.  Here we are 20+ years later and it's as if that lesson has been lost in Danny's ties to this team as well.

Doc will end up being the fall-guy, and hopefully it will be sooner than later.  This season can still be salvaged, but I believe if Danny feels this team needs to play harder, that it be DANNY who rids this team of Doc and takes a seat on the bench.  He has stood by this team so he should be the one to steer them back...

Sorry, Andy, but you're off on this one.  The comparison is not as valid as it's made out to be.

True:  We currently don't have many young players (except Rondo) to bridge to the future.  We definitely don't have a young scorer who has the potential to carry the team on most nights(that includes Rondo).

False:  The late 80's/early 90's team didn't either.  They had Brian Shaw and that Reggie Lewis kid, along with good young bench players like Kevin Gamble, a cast-off who had some scoring success off the early 90's bench, and a good running big in Pinkney.  They had some young athletic bigs who could both rebound and run.  The '92 team was actually a running team, even though Bird/McHale/Parrish were still starting, because they had decent depth.

[wdleehi]

Danny traded the farm to get KG and Ray.


They have not been in position to refill the cupboards the 2 off seasons that followed. 


So, short of moving Rondo or Perk with Ray, what did the Celtics have that would be attractive to other teams?




Last thing the Celtics need to do is just dump Ainge.  How many seasons did it take him to put together a contender the 1st time around?

[nishesh]

Maybe my judgement was clouded just a little bit by the fact we just lost to the Nets  

Great ideas, and a lot that Wyc should seriously consider. Honestly the only person guaranteed is Wyc (You can't fire an owner!!) and we'll just have to see.

One thing is certain, we haven't played like a championship team this season, it's not just today's loss. Today itself, Ainge said this summer he's either going to change or add to the team. I hope we change it, big time. No one wants us to fall to what we were 4+ years ago, and I hope the Executives learn from Red's success and failures.

[LB3533]

Now is not the time to fire Danny.

You fire Danny after he fails to rebuild this team from scratch.

[Andy Jick]

Danny's failure, ironically enough, will be the same failure that Red had: loyalty.

The same thing that caused the downfall of the 80's will be the downfall of the 10's - an aging team that needs to trade a piece in order to span the bridge to the future. 

I wouldn't even bring this up but Danny already has, because it was Danny who stated that Red should have dealt a member of the original Big 3.  Here we are 20+ years later and it's as if that lesson has been lost in Danny's ties to this team as well.

Doc will end up being the fall-guy, and hopefully it will be sooner than later.  This season can still be salvaged, but I believe if Danny feels this team needs to play harder, that it be DANNY who rids this team of Doc and takes a seat on the bench.  He has stood by this team so he should be the one to steer them back...

Sorry, Andy, but you're off on this one.  The comparison is not as valid as it's made out to be.

True:  We currently don't have many young players (except Rondo) to bridge to the future.  We definitely don't have a young scorer who has the potential to carry the team on most nights(that includes Rondo).

False:  The late 80's/early 90's team didn't either.  They had Brian Shaw and that Reggie Lewis kid, along with good young bench players like Kevin Gamble, a cast-off who had some scoring success off the early 90's bench, and a good running big in Pinkney.  They had some young athletic bigs who could both rebound and run.  The '92 team was actually a running team, even though Bird/McHale/Parrish were still starting, because they had decent depth.

...and if you recall, that '92 team started off like a ball of fire, and then fizzled out.  Bird's back flared up and that was that.  We all knew deep down there was no way they were better than the Bulls or Trailblazers. 

Sure, they had a nice back court (Shaw, Lewis and Brown) but the front court was full of role-players.  McHale and Parish were really old, and Bird's back was toast.  They had NOTHING waiting in the wings (Pinckney, Kleine, Gamble, M. Smith...).

Funny, but the same is true now...there is NOTHING waiting in the wings to replace Pierce, KG and Ray...

[xmuscularghandix]

Danny is such an idiot, he has loyalty to the two guys that he traded ALL our prospects to get. Especially after an entire 2 years... what a fool, he should have traded them after our first loss of this season. OH WAIT none of the players that would provide us an upgrade will be traded without a young prospect to build around... we don't have any...

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Danny's failure, ironically enough, will be the same failure that Red had: loyalty.

The same thing that caused the downfall of the 80's will be the downfall of the 10's - an aging team that needs to trade a piece in order to span the bridge to the future. 

I wouldn't even bring this up but Danny already has, because it was Danny who stated that Red should have dealt a member of the original Big 3.  Here we are 20+ years later and it's as if that lesson has been lost in Danny's ties to this team as well.

Doc will end up being the fall-guy, and hopefully it will be sooner than later.  This season can still be salvaged, but I believe if Danny feels this team needs to play harder, that it be DANNY who rids this team of Doc and takes a seat on the bench.  He has stood by this team so he should be the one to steer them back...

Sorry, Andy, but you're off on this one.  The comparison is not as valid as it's made out to be.

True:  We currently don't have many young players (except Rondo) to bridge to the future.  We definitely don't have a young scorer who has the potential to carry the team on most nights(that includes Rondo).

False:  The late 80's/early 90's team didn't either.  They had Brian Shaw and that Reggie Lewis kid, along with good young bench players like Kevin Gamble, a cast-off who had some scoring success off the early 90's bench, and a good running big in Pinkney.  They had some young athletic bigs who could both rebound and run.  The '92 team was actually a running team, even though Bird/McHale/Parrish were still starting, because they had decent depth.

...and if you recall, that '92 team started off like a ball of fire, and then fizzled out.  Bird's back flared up and that was that.  We all knew deep down there was no way they were better than the Bulls or Trailblazers. 

Sure, they had a nice back court (Shaw, Lewis and Brown) but the front court was full of role-players.  McHale and Parish were really old, and Bird's back was toast.  They had NOTHING waiting in the wings (Pinckney, Kleine, Gamble, M. Smith...).

Funny, but the same is true now...there is NOTHING waiting in the wings to replace Pierce, KG and Ray...

Actually (after checking) it was the '91 team that fizzled.  They finished well in '92, but still got bounced in the 2nd round, but with a young team/players playing more than the old ones (Larry played only 4 games), and still went 6 games against the Bad Boys of Detroit.  They did it w/o Shaw, who was traded for Sherm Douglass that January.

Point:  They were still very good team (50+ wins, probably like the current team) with BOTH veteran leadership and young talent, unlike the current squad which features little more than veteran leadership plus Rondo, whose merits as the center of the franchise are, in my view, debatable.

The right thing to do would've been to recognize quickly after Posey left that the team would need youth, and started looking for young players then.  They blew it by signing Sheed instead of looking for a younger player.

The 80's/90's team development shows how cursed we really were, with Bias dying, then Shaw's defection to Italy (which Bob Ryan called "near devestating"", then Reggie dying, too.  It's important not to put all the eggs in one basket, I guess.  Or three.

[Rtpas11]

I wouldn't say Danny should be gone, but I will say he has made some mistakes.

#1 James Posey: If you could sign Rasheed for 6 million you could've easily resigned Posey for 6 million.

#2 Leon Powe: Should've been resigned. Shelden isn't even being used, and Powe definitely was and produced.

#3 Dahntay Jones: Should've signed him during that championship run season, and give Tony "injured" Allen the boot.

#4 Allen Iverson: I'm not sure why you didn't go after him before if you can go after Nate Robinson. You could'e signed him and if it didn;t work out waive him like (Memphis)

#5 Eddie House: I was probably the biggest lobbyist to get Nate Robinson onboard on this entire blog, but I never had it in mind that Eddie House will have to go for Nate to come here. Extremely risky move, not going to call it bad yet. I would've waited for a buyout or something signed him and did the same with Allen Iverson.

[PLamb]

Danny Ainge's biggest challenge in trading for Garnett and Allen and then putting the team's future in the hands of three aging superstars has always been when to put the flame to the wick and decide to blow it all up because the team was on the downside of the mountain of championship expectations

The optimal time for that, in retrospect, may have been before the trading deadline of 2010

But nothing happened(I consider the trading of Eddie and flotsam and jetsam for Nate nothing subtracted, nothing added)

So now instead of having traded Ray and/or Pierce and/or Garnett and/or Perk and or expiring contracts for any type of future building, Danny really has resigned himself to HAVING to re-sign Ray to a two year contract and forcing a group of four increasingly nonathletic 30 somethings onto the fanbase for the next 2 1/2 years

Next year a fight to even be .500 and make the playoffs should probably be expected

2011-2012 is probably the good bye tour of all three Big Three at the same time and a trip into the lottery

I just am convinced that this team aged overnight right in front of our eyes this year

It has happened to lots of superstars in the history of the NBA where they get past 30000, 35000 or 40000 career minutes played, injuries occur and "it" disappeared

Usually if happens when only one aging superstar is on a team

I'm not sure it has ever happened to a team with three superstars all at once

It may be happening now and if it is the precipitous fall is going to be shocking to a fan base that just months earlier was expecting 72 wins

Heads will roll

Doc's definitely though I am not sure it will be deserving

In a year or so from now if the C's fall out of the playoffs, Danny's head might roll too because if in retrospect Wyc and company look back and see that trading deadline 2010 was the time for Danny to blow it up and he didn't, it will cost Danny his job as well

Both Doc and Danny's future relies on the players turning things around

Unfortunately a 32 year old and beat up and hurt Pierce, a 33 year old and having chronic knee problems Garnett, a 35 year old washed up Rasheed and a 35 year old and aging and inconsistent Ray might not be able to ever turn things around again

And unfortunately for Doc and Danny, they are players number 2,3,4 and 6 on the depth chart for possibly the next 2 1/2 years

[LooseCannon]

The right thing to do would've been to recognize quickly after Posey left that the team would need youth, and started looking for young players then.  They blew it by signing Sheed instead of looking for a younger player.

Marquis Daniels was the attempt to get younger (although he's not really that young).  I look through the list of 2009 off-season free agent signings and no one screams out to me as a young guy with upside who could have been signed for the MLE.  Would you have preferred Chris Wilcox?  People forget that it was a really poor free agent class and Boston was looking for someone who could be trusted as a starter if KG was out.

I'm willing to believe that Ainge was thinking about blowing up the team, but I definitely believe that he thinks it's not worth it if you have to take on large, bad, untradeable contracts to do so.  I agree with that.

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The right thing to do would've been to recognize quickly after Posey left that the team would need youth, and started looking for young players then.  They blew it by signing Sheed instead of looking for a younger player.

Marquis Daniels was the attempt to get younger (although he's not really that young).  I look through the list of 2009 off-season free agent signings and no one screams out to me as a young guy with upside who could have been signed for the MLE.  Would you have preferred Chris Wilcox?  People forget that it was a really poor free agent class and Boston was looking for someone who could be trusted as a starter if KG was out.

I'm willing to believe that Ainge was thinking about blowing up the team, but I definitely believe that he thinks it's not worth it if you have to take on large, bad, untradeable contracts to do so.  I agree with that.

Well, it certainly isn't overwhelming, but I'd take Brandon Bass over Rasheed, who clearly can't start for KG since he can only play the 5 these days (where BBD should be), and I'd lock in Dahntay Jones on a cheap deal for 5 years over Quisy for one year(for health and 3pt shooting).

But your point is valid:  the deal/signing that a team needs isn't always there.  Locking on to Sheed for 3 years sort of looks like a desperation move in retrospect, though.

[Andy Jick]

who knew KG would turn into an elderly man this quickly?

who knew this team would suddenly lose heart & "get bored" during the regular season?

who knew Fat Davis would regress?

who knew Rasheed would show up out of shape and make love to the 3 point line each night?

who knew Paul would become injury prone this season?

who knew Scalabrine would still suck as bad today as he did 5 years ago when he signed his contract?  wait...scratch that.  we all knew that one...

my point: danny couldn't look into his crystal ball and foresee these things.  maybe he hasn't been totally honest about garnett's status (which wouldn't surprise me), but if that's so, then he would have went after a guy like tyrus thomas at the trade deadline.

i can't completely fault danny for this mess.  but i think he has totally misread this team and the magical buttons he pushed a couple years ago are no longer coming up aces for him...

[Onslaught]

who knew Fat Davis would regress?

I had a gut feeling about that one. I can't explain why but I just couldn't get over the feeling that last years little run for him was a one time thing. And I never really wanted him around for a long period of time.
Reason being is he's a fat. And a with all that weight he'll blow something out sometime.

[xmuscularghandix]

These are all hindsight evaluations... and Rasheed for 6 million is a good deal, Posey for 6 million is a good deal... but JP wanted too long of a deal.

[PosImpos]

Nothing that Danny has done is the direct cause of any of the team's recent struggles.  Can I provide incontrovertible proof of that?  No.  But I defy you to come up with a well reasoned argument proving that Danny should have foreseen that this team would play like that based upon how he constructed it.  You can't. 

Don't blame Danny.  It's not his fault.  This is on the players - and perhaps the coach - and nobody else.  Father Time also has some blame in all of this, but we can't do anything about him.