GSW Fire Sale according to Rick Bucher

[pearljammer10]

I wouldnt do either of those trades... Monta distrupts the chemistry of this years team by always needing the ball, and also distrupts our financial flexibility for the next 5 years.

Hes an incredible scorer and a decent defender but looking at his numbers...Last three games he's gone for; 39, 36, 33...And the field goal attempts for those, respectively; 28, 39, 31...

Wow...Where do you fit in that many shots on the team we have? Not gonna work.

Also I dont know how I feel about Maggette... He's up in the air for me... He's one of those, he can play very well, when he wants to guys, also he still has 4 years on his contract as well... At 9 mil a year it might be hard to nab him...I certainly wouldnt give up Ray in a deal for him. No way.

The only way we could successfully get Maggette would be to trade Scal, Ta, J.R. and Walker...Thats a lot of trash for a guy who has some skill but if the Warriors would bite I would take it.

Rondo/Daniels
Allen/House
Pierce/Maggette
KG/BBD/Williams
Perk/Wallace

Leaves us real thin and with only 11 players... However, that is certainly a lineup that would get us into the finals.

[Roy Hobbs]

I think there is a pretty good chance that Danny will go after Maggette with expiring contracts and draft picks. He already offered Maggette the full MLE 2 years ago , so you know that Danny likes his game.  He is only making a few mil more than the full MLE per year so his contract wouldn't effect our future salary cap to much.

TA, Walker, Giddens and Scal works for Maggette

It's a lot of depth to give up ... i'd want to try to get Anthony Randolph or Brandan Wright since the Warriors would deal either ... this works in the trade machine:

TA, Giddens, Scal, Eddie House, #1

FOR

Randolph, Maggette, Morrow

I can't see Golden State trading Morrow and Randolph just to get out from under Maggette's contract, but yeah, sign me up.

[ssspence]

Bos sends: Ray , BBD  and a 2010 1st
GS  sends: Maggette, Radmonovic, Randolph

Here's how I break this down:

I wouldn't trade Ray for Maggette, straight up.

I wouldn't trade BBD, a 1st, and take on VladRad's deal to get Randolph.

Therefore, I pass.  If there's any way to get Maggette for other expiring contracts, though, I'd have definite interest.

How about Ray for Ellis and Maggette?

I'm not a huge fan of acquiring Ellis.  I have serious concerns about how a backcourt of Rondo and Ellis would function.  Two small guards who need the ball in their hands to be effective isn't a recipe for success, especially when neither is a good shooter.  Ellis bristled when Golden State wanted to play him next to Stephen Curry; I can only imagine his reaction alongside Rondo.

I agree. I like a Maggette and nice pieces trade more than an Ellis trade. Maggette gets his role. Ellis is an emotionally and physically fragile kid with no real clue about life or the game.

[Evantime34]

Bos sends: Ray , BBD  and a 2010 1st
GS  sends: Maggette, Radmonovic, Randolph

Here's how I break this down:

I wouldn't trade Ray for Maggette, straight up.

I wouldn't trade BBD, a 1st, and take on VladRad's deal to get Randolph.

Therefore, I pass.  If there's any way to get Maggette for other expiring contracts, though, I'd have definite interest.

How about Ray for Ellis and Maggette?

I'm not a huge fan of acquiring Ellis.  I have serious concerns about how a backcourt of Rondo and Ellis would function.  Two small guards who need the ball in their hands to be effective isn't a recipe for success, especially when neither is a good shooter.  Ellis bristled when Golden State wanted to play him next to Stephen Curry; I can only imagine his reaction alongside Rondo.

I think a slasher bristling at playing with a shooter is a lot different than getting upset over playing with a distributor. Rondo would get him the ball in easy situations, Curry would want Ellis to pass the ball to set him up in easy situations.

Rondo and Ellis could push the tempo and finish the break well before the other team could get back, there wouldn't be a quicker duo in the league. The fast break points we get would outweigh the hit that would happen to our offense.

I think if we get Ellis and Maggette it is a no brainer, either by themselves should be a no deal.

[sk7326]

Forget Maggette. 40 mil over 4 years for the guy...that's simply too many years for not a good enough player. If he was 28, I might feel differently, but he is 30 and to my recollection has never been an All Star, nor has deserved to be one.

He is not a superstar, but for a remarkable scorer and a potentially lethal sixth man ... that is actually not a bad price.  It seems like a bad contract because silly writers make that claim and thus it becomes fact.  It's not.  He can score in bunches without needing tons of shots.  

Allen Iverson is an all star in 2010 - so whoopee.  

That said, I don't trade for him on his own unless either Brandan Wright (criminally underutilized by Nellie) or Anthony Randolph (harder get - but could be a josh smith sort of floor game tour de force) can be nabbed too - and that is possible since Don Nelson is coaching like he's trying to get fired, and he hates any player taller than 6'6"

[Roy Hobbs]

Bos sends: Ray , BBD  and a 2010 1st
GS  sends: Maggette, Radmonovic, Randolph

Here's how I break this down:

I wouldn't trade Ray for Maggette, straight up.

I wouldn't trade BBD, a 1st, and take on VladRad's deal to get Randolph.

Therefore, I pass.  If there's any way to get Maggette for other expiring contracts, though, I'd have definite interest.

How about Ray for Ellis and Maggette?

I'm not a huge fan of acquiring Ellis.  I have serious concerns about how a backcourt of Rondo and Ellis would function.  Two small guards who need the ball in their hands to be effective isn't a recipe for success, especially when neither is a good shooter.  Ellis bristled when Golden State wanted to play him next to Stephen Curry; I can only imagine his reaction alongside Rondo.

I think a slasher bristling at playing with a shooter is a lot different than getting upset over playing with a distributor. Rondo would get him the ball in easy situations, Curry would want Ellis to pass the ball to set him up in easy situations.

Rondo and Ellis could push the tempo and finish the break well before the other team could get back, there wouldn't be a quicker duo in the league. The fast break points we get would outweigh the hit that would happen to our offense.

I think if we get Ellis and Maggette it is a no brainer, either by themselves should be a no deal.

I don't think any team can rely on fast-breaking all of the time.  I think a starting lineup where only one player has true three point range would hurt us.

[Evantime34]

Bos sends: Ray , BBD  and a 2010 1st
GS  sends: Maggette, Radmonovic, Randolph

Here's how I break this down:

I wouldn't trade Ray for Maggette, straight up.

I wouldn't trade BBD, a 1st, and take on VladRad's deal to get Randolph.

Therefore, I pass.  If there's any way to get Maggette for other expiring contracts, though, I'd have definite interest.

How about Ray for Ellis and Maggette?

I'm not a huge fan of acquiring Ellis.  I have serious concerns about how a backcourt of Rondo and Ellis would function.  Two small guards who need the ball in their hands to be effective isn't a recipe for success, especially when neither is a good shooter.  Ellis bristled when Golden State wanted to play him next to Stephen Curry; I can only imagine his reaction alongside Rondo.

I agree. I like a Maggette and nice pieces trade more than an Ellis trade. Maggette gets his role. Ellis is an emotionally and physically fragile kid with no real clue about life or the game.

No clue about the game? I think your giving the game of basketball too much intellectual credit.
If he is faster than everyone on the court I don't know how high of a basketball IQ he needs to have in order to get to the hoop. His speed allows him to put his head down and get to the basket.

Ellis is an instinctive scorer, I think he not only has a clue about the game but has an innate understanding of it. His numbers reflect this.

[sk7326]

I think there is a pretty good chance that Danny will go after Maggette with expiring contracts and draft picks. He already offered Maggette the full MLE 2 years ago , so you know that Danny likes his game.  He is only making a few mil more than the full MLE per year so his contract wouldn't effect our future salary cap to much.

TA, Walker, Giddens and Scal works for Maggette

It's a lot of depth to give up ... i'd want to try to get Anthony Randolph or Brandan Wright since the Warriors would deal either ... this works in the trade machine:

TA, Giddens, Scal, Eddie House, #1

FOR

Randolph, Maggette, Morrow

I can't see Golden State trading Morrow and Randolph just to get out from under Maggette's contract, but yeah, sign me up.

You are assuming a few things:

1. Golden State management is not clueless
2. Don Nelson is coaching like a normal NBA coach and not a crazy person

If the Warriors are in fire sale mode, then they have to pay a little to get cap relief.  

[Birdbrain]

Ray won't get traded. And if a trade would to happen this season, Celtics have tons of Exp Contract that they can trade before they touch ray: House, TA, Scal, JR, Billy, Daniels, Shelden, Baby.

Do all those add up to Ray's 18 m so we can match Ellis contract?

To trade for Ellis, the Celts would need to send a minimum of $8.72 million back.  That's a lot, but not close to Ray's contract.

EDIT:  What lucky just said.

Great thanks.  The thing though is they probably would like to get 18 million off the books.

[The Walker Wiggle]

Regarding Stephen Curry, Ellis came around pretty quickly towards the rookie, partly just as a result of being out from under Stephen Jackon's rain cloud.

That said I'm still not in favor of dealing Allen for Ellis. I would be excited to see the Celtics deal a package of expiring contracts for Corey Maggette.

As for Randolph, I'm as high on the kid as anyone, but he has two torn ligaments on the outside of his ankle and an avulsion fracture. He's not yet out of his walking boot and is facing a month of rehab, barring setbacks, once the boot is off. Throw in a lack of conditioning and a new playbook for the already raw NBA sophomore to learn, and I'm doubtful he could make any meaningful contributions to the cause this season.

[ssspence]

Bos sends: Ray , BBD  and a 2010 1st
GS  sends: Maggette, Radmonovic, Randolph

Here's how I break this down:

I wouldn't trade Ray for Maggette, straight up.

I wouldn't trade BBD, a 1st, and take on VladRad's deal to get Randolph.

Therefore, I pass.  If there's any way to get Maggette for other expiring contracts, though, I'd have definite interest.

How about Ray for Ellis and Maggette?

I'm not a huge fan of acquiring Ellis.  I have serious concerns about how a backcourt of Rondo and Ellis would function.  Two small guards who need the ball in their hands to be effective isn't a recipe for success, especially when neither is a good shooter.  Ellis bristled when Golden State wanted to play him next to Stephen Curry; I can only imagine his reaction alongside Rondo.

I agree. I like a Maggette and nice pieces trade more than an Ellis trade. Maggette gets his role. Ellis is an emotionally and physically fragile kid with no real clue about life or the game.

No clue about the game? I think your giving the game of basketball too much intellectual credit.
If he is faster than everyone on the court I don't know how high of a basketball IQ he needs to have in order to get to the hoop. His speed allows him to put his head down and get to the basket.

Ellis is an instinctive scorer, I think he not only has a clue about the game but has an innate understanding of it. His numbers reflect this.

His numbers? You mean all those wins? Or how many times he refers to himself in the third person in interviews?

There's plenty of guys who can score a lot taking a lot of shots on a bad team. Yes, he's talented. But he goes 1-on-5 every posession. He calls himself a team leader but really he's selfish and fickle. Why do I want him taking the ball out of Rondo's hands?

[GreenFaith1819]

http://twitter.com/RicBucheR

For my Ws' tweeps: multiple front offices say Ws are looking to move anybody to save $. Raising speculation team could be for sale.

I love Ray , but if this is in fact true that the Warriors are willing to move anyone to save $ then you have to put some very serious thought into this. I would love to add either Maggette, Ellis or Randolph. This is our chance to grab a player who can help us contend this year as well as going forward in the future.


Here are some trades I would do

Bos sends: Ray , BBD  and a 2010 1st
GS  sends: Maggette, Radmonovic, Randolph


Bos sends: Ray, TA and 2010 1st rd pick
GS  sends: Ellis, Bell

Everyone in the media said that GSW won't trade Ellis for expirings, but I think this could definitely be true if the team is for sale. Come on Danny take advantage of this !

You put together some interesting trade scenarios, and I really like Randolph just as much as anyone here (future KG clone?), but anything involving Ray Ray closes our window, as soon as it happens.

Thought just popped in my head.....The last time we traded significantly with Golden State we nabbed someone by the name of Robert Parish......hmmmmmm.

But anything dealing with Ray closes our window. That much I have to stand by. No one in the package above has the experience and clutchness we need.

I just don't agree with the idea that trading Ray closes our window

I think it would completely depend on the trade

With Golden State if the Celtics could land Corey Maggette, Anthony Morrow, Anthony Randolph, EJ Watson and Vladimir Radmanovic for Ray Allen, Brian Scalabrine, Shelden Williams and Bill Walker that wouldn't come close to closing our window

On the contrary extending Daniels Morrow and Watson would give the team the following look for the next several years

Rondo/Watson
Morrow/Daniels
Pierce/Maggette/Radmanovic
KG/Randolph/Davis
Perkins/Wallace

That's not even including the fact that Tony Allen, Eddie House, and JR Giddens could be kept this year and let expire to add 2 drafted rookies or trade as a package for a player while still having their picks to do something with

And that's just Golden State

There are a bunch of other teams where trading Ray helps us this year and extends our championship window as well

I don't recommend trading him unless it's a no brainer type deal but it is still very very possible to trade him and improve the team for now and going forward

You put up a very good debate, PLamb.

But I just don't see where your scenario could give Boston the type of player in return that Ray Allen is.

I guess the quandary I have is that Ray has been clutch for us quite a few times over the years, and in the package you suggested for us I just couldn't see Boston integrating that many new pieces this year in time for our run at Banner 18 this year.

Now the scenario you give allows us more financial flexibility I believe (Vice Rondohondo's) in that we wouldn't take on Monta Ellis' contract, but I still couldn't do it.

Ray brings too many intangibles to us. I just don't see GSW bringing us back any pieces that allows us to win in June 2010....compete for a deep playoff run - Yes. Win a seven game series against LA? Just don't believe so.

[Birdbrain]

Bos sends: Ray , BBD  and a 2010 1st
GS  sends: Maggette, Radmonovic, Randolph

Here's how I break this down:

I wouldn't trade Ray for Maggette, straight up.

I wouldn't trade BBD, a 1st, and take on VladRad's deal to get Randolph.

Therefore, I pass.  If there's any way to get Maggette for other expiring contracts, though, I'd have definite interest.

How about Ray for Ellis and Maggette?

I'm not a huge fan of acquiring Ellis.  I have serious concerns about how a backcourt of Rondo and Ellis would function.  Two small guards who need the ball in their hands to be effective isn't a recipe for success, especially when neither is a good shooter.  Ellis bristled when Golden State wanted to play him next to Stephen Curry; I can only imagine his reaction alongside Rondo.

I agree. I like a Maggette and nice pieces trade more than an Ellis trade. Maggette gets his role. Ellis is an emotionally and physically fragile kid with no real clue about life or the game.

Really you know all that about him?  Interesting.

This place should be pleasant if Boston trades an non performing player on his last legs that's only been here 3 years for young player w/ unlimited scoring ability.  

Poor us.  

[Evantime34]

Bos sends: Ray , BBD  and a 2010 1st
GS  sends: Maggette, Radmonovic, Randolph

Here's how I break this down:

I wouldn't trade Ray for Maggette, straight up.

I wouldn't trade BBD, a 1st, and take on VladRad's deal to get Randolph.

Therefore, I pass.  If there's any way to get Maggette for other expiring contracts, though, I'd have definite interest.

How about Ray for Ellis and Maggette?

I'm not a huge fan of acquiring Ellis.  I have serious concerns about how a backcourt of Rondo and Ellis would function.  Two small guards who need the ball in their hands to be effective isn't a recipe for success, especially when neither is a good shooter.  Ellis bristled when Golden State wanted to play him next to Stephen Curry; I can only imagine his reaction alongside Rondo.

I agree. I like a Maggette and nice pieces trade more than an Ellis trade. Maggette gets his role. Ellis is an emotionally and physically fragile kid with no real clue about life or the game.

No clue about the game? I think your giving the game of basketball too much intellectual credit.
If he is faster than everyone on the court I don't know how high of a basketball IQ he needs to have in order to get to the hoop. His speed allows him to put his head down and get to the basket.

Ellis is an instinctive scorer, I think he not only has a clue about the game but has an innate understanding of it. His numbers reflect this.

His numbers? You mean all those wins? Or how many times he refers to himself in the third person in interviews?

There's plenty of guys who can score a lot taking a lot of shots on a bad team. Yes, he's talented. But he goes 1-on-5 every posession. He calls himself a team leader but really he's selfish and fickle. Why do I want him taking the ball out of Rondo's hands?

The same selfish and fickle comments could be made about a lot of good players early in their careers, especially ones that play without a veteran presence. I know Ray was called selfish early in his career, Pierce would go one on five when he was younger.

Being assimilated into the Celtics would bring him the leadership that could elivate his game from scorer to  all around basketball player.

Discounting his scoring prowess (as well as decent assists and rebounding numbers) because he plays on a bad team is not something a good talent evaluator would do. In order to target a good young player from a bad team in a trade you have to project his potential in a new system, and this kid has boatloads of potential.

[steve]

I don't know if Ellis and Rondo can play on the court at the same time.  Is it possible that on GSW Ellis plays the role of the scoring point guard because that is how their system works.  And maybe if he entered a new system he would adapt.

Can Doc coach anybody out of their ego?  Marbury, Sheed, Rondo... Ellis?

If we remained healthy in the first part of the year and we were dominant would we even be thinking about making a major trade?  KG seems like he is fine.  Marquis will be fine.  Pierce is getting better.  

When healthy this team has the best chance to win this year.  Do you risk that chance for Monta Ellis and his question marks?