NFL Draft 2010

[Rondo2287]

There's another reason it's a horrible pick. Let's say he turns out really good. Great. Then in 5 years he says "Now pay me".  Belichek responds "oooohhhh yeahhhhh. We really don't do that around here."

So the kid calls his agent, and the agent says "Don't worry. This happened to Asante too. We'll get you out of there"

and then we're right back where we started.

if you're going to draft a guy draft him. Don't rent him

5 years is more like a lease than a rental

[Donoghus]

There's another reason it's a horrible pick. Let's say he turns out really good. Great. Then in 5 years he says "Now pay me".  Belichek responds "oooohhhh yeahhhhh. We really don't do that around here."

So the kid calls his agent, and the agent says "Don't worry. This happened to Asante too. We'll get you out of there"

and then we're right back where we started.

if you're going to draft a guy draft him. Don't rent him

Any kid they draft who performs well is going to be looking for a nice payday at the end of their rookie contract.

So the fact that this kid is a CB like Samuel means he and his agent are going to pull a Samuel?  That's taking quite the plunge with the speculation, don't you think?  

It's the nature of the business.  Guys are going to want to get paid and the organizations have to weigh resigning these guys against letting them walk.  If there is still a salary cap in place, they might very well let him walk rather than let them cripple their situation.

So its a horrible pick because of something that MIGHT happen in 5 years?  C'mon.  If that situation arises, its a great thing because it means the kid worked out and they got quality service time at a relatively cheap price.

[nickagneta]

There's another reason it's a horrible pick. Let's say he turns out really good. Great. Then in 5 years he says "Now pay me".  Belichek responds "oooohhhh yeahhhhh. We really don't do that around here."

So the kid calls his agent, and the agent says "Don't worry. This happened to Asante too. We'll get you out of there"

and then we're right back where we started.

if you're going to draft a guy draft him. Don't rent him

This makes no sense eja.

The average NFL career is like 3.5 years long. With a 5 year deal and the ability to franchise a guy twice, the Pats have the ability to control a guy for 7 years. The likelihood that you have gotten the best years a guy is going to play in this league out of a guy that is drafted late in the first round in his first 7 years must be astronomically high.

Asante's first contract wasn't that long because he was a 4th round draft pick so he came into having being franchised earlier and then was only franchised one year because of contract stipulations. Apples and oranges. The Pats sign most of their 1st round picks to 5 year contracts and then have two franchise tags to use on them.

[Eja117]

There's another reason it's a horrible pick. Let's say he turns out really good. Great. Then in 5 years he says "Now pay me".  Belichek responds "oooohhhh yeahhhhh. We really don't do that around here."

So the kid calls his agent, and the agent says "Don't worry. This happened to Asante too. We'll get you out of there"

and then we're right back where we started.

if you're going to draft a guy draft him. Don't rent him

Any kid they draft who performs well is going to be looking for a nice payday at the end of their rookie contract.

So the fact that this kid is a CB like Samuel means he and his agent are going to pull a Samuel?  That's taking quite the plunge with the speculation, don't you think?  

It's the nature of the business.  Guys are going to want to get paid and the organizations have to weigh resigning these guys against letting them walk.  If there is still a salary cap in place, they might very well let him walk rather than let them cripple their situation.

So its a horrible pick because of something that MIGHT happen in 5 years?  C'mon.  If that situation arises, its a great thing because it means the kid worked out and they got quality service time at a relatively cheap price.

I see what you're saying in the sense that Samuel was obviously a good pick well worth it.

I guess it's not inevitable that they won't pay him. They made Wilfork happy and I have some confidence in the Mankins situation.

I guess Samuels had played on a 4th rnd contract and wanted to get paid like the best DB there was, and that probably won't happen in this case.

But at some point I guess you have to decide between crippling your financial situation or crippling your secondary and multiple drafts after that. BB chose the latter.
It's not like we haven't spent a lot of money on wasted draft picks trying to replace Samuels, not to mention some free agents

[Eja117]

There's another reason it's a horrible pick. Let's say he turns out really good. Great. Then in 5 years he says "Now pay me".  Belichek responds "oooohhhh yeahhhhh. We really don't do that around here."

So the kid calls his agent, and the agent says "Don't worry. This happened to Asante too. We'll get you out of there"

and then we're right back where we started.

if you're going to draft a guy draft him. Don't rent him

This makes no sense eja.

The average NFL career is like 3.5 years long. With a 5 year deal and the ability to franchise a guy twice, the Pats have the ability to control a guy for 7 years. The likelihood that you have gotten the best years a guy is going to play in this league out of a guy that is drafted late in the first round in his first 7 years must be astronomically high.

Asante's first contract wasn't that long because he was a 4th round draft pick so he came into having being franchised earlier and then was only franchised one year because of contract stipulations. Apples and oranges. The Pats sign most of their 1st round picks to 5 year contracts and then have two franchise tags to use on them.

I agree with most everything you're saying here and Dons too, but at some point you can't just keep replacing pro Bowlers with draft picks and actually have to pay guys. The Wilfork thing just came a little too close for comfort, and the Samuels thing still stings. Bodden came a little close too

The Pats reputation for not paying is definitely hurting them. Moss is like "No hard feelings, but my bags are already packed and it has more to do with you than me".  I don't think you can really win that way.

[Donoghus]

I have to admit Goodell's announcment of McCourty gave me my biggest "Huh?" Pats draft moment since the Mankins pick.  I can only hope this kid ends up being that good of a pick.  

It sounds like Belichick was very high on this kid to begin with and even stated that he would've taken the kid at #22.  Smartly, he probably realized the kid was going to remain available later on.  This allowed him to trade down and accumulate multiple picks and ultimatly led him to get back into the 3rd round and well as move up a few slots in Rd. 4 which is huge because there was a significant gap between the Pats last 2nd rounder and their next selectin which I believe was going to be #119.  

That's smart decision-making there in terms of asset acquisition.  Why draft the kid at 22 when you know you can still get him 5 picks later AND pick up a 3rd round and move up in the 4th?  

Now, to the talent aspect of things.  I really think Belichick wasn't enamored with the so-called "first round talent" at the DE/LB position.  You have to understand that almost none of these kids have played in a pro-style 3-4 alignment in college.  Belichick likes certain guys to be on the ends here whether its at DE or OLB.   There were question marks on every DE/LB type that was available from 15 on about whether they could transition to the 3-4.  There were no slam dunks there.  Rather than reach, Belichick went with the safer option and took a CB (which believe it or not, was also a glaring need on this football team).  

[Donoghus]

There's another reason it's a horrible pick. Let's say he turns out really good. Great. Then in 5 years he says "Now pay me".  Belichek responds "oooohhhh yeahhhhh. We really don't do that around here."

So the kid calls his agent, and the agent says "Don't worry. This happened to Asante too. We'll get you out of there"

and then we're right back where we started.

if you're going to draft a guy draft him. Don't rent him

This makes no sense eja.

The average NFL career is like 3.5 years long. With a 5 year deal and the ability to franchise a guy twice, the Pats have the ability to control a guy for 7 years. The likelihood that you have gotten the best years a guy is going to play in this league out of a guy that is drafted late in the first round in his first 7 years must be astronomically high.

Asante's first contract wasn't that long because he was a 4th round draft pick so he came into having being franchised earlier and then was only franchised one year because of contract stipulations. Apples and oranges. The Pats sign most of their 1st round picks to 5 year contracts and then have two franchise tags to use on them.

I agree with most everything you're saying here and Dons too, but at some point you can't just keep replacing pro Bowlers with draft picks and actually have to pay guys. The Wilfork thing just came a little too close for comfort, and the Samuels thing still stings. Bodden came a little close too

The Pats reputation for not paying is definitely hurting them. Moss is like "No hard feelings, but my bags are already packed and it has more to do with you than me".  I don't think you can really win that way.

They DO pay guys, though.  That's the biggest misconception about this organization.  They just value certain positions more than others and probably have one of the best business-savy approaches to the salary cap of any team in the league.

They showed Brady the money.  Likewise to Seymour a few years back.  They just showed Wilfork the money.  They showed Warren the money a few years back.  They showed big money to Adalius Thomas which unfortunately not the best deal.

They have a vision on what are the cornerstone positions/guys and are willing to let some others walk.

This isn't like the Carroll/Bobby Grier days where the team was showing everyone the big money (Chris Slade, anyone?) and ending up in salary cap hell.  That's a good thing.

[Eja117]

There's another reason it's a horrible pick. Let's say he turns out really good. Great. Then in 5 years he says "Now pay me".  Belichek responds "oooohhhh yeahhhhh. We really don't do that around here."

So the kid calls his agent, and the agent says "Don't worry. This happened to Asante too. We'll get you out of there"

and then we're right back where we started.

if you're going to draft a guy draft him. Don't rent him

This makes no sense eja.

The average NFL career is like 3.5 years long. With a 5 year deal and the ability to franchise a guy twice, the Pats have the ability to control a guy for 7 years. The likelihood that you have gotten the best years a guy is going to play in this league out of a guy that is drafted late in the first round in his first 7 years must be astronomically high.

Asante's first contract wasn't that long because he was a 4th round draft pick so he came into having being franchised earlier and then was only franchised one year because of contract stipulations. Apples and oranges. The Pats sign most of their 1st round picks to 5 year contracts and then have two franchise tags to use on them.

I agree with most everything you're saying here and Dons too, but at some point you can't just keep replacing pro Bowlers with draft picks and actually have to pay guys. The Wilfork thing just came a little too close for comfort, and the Samuels thing still stings. Bodden came a little close too

The Pats reputation for not paying is definitely hurting them. Moss is like "No hard feelings, but my bags are already packed and it has more to do with you than me".  I don't think you can really win that way.

They DO pay guys, though.  That's the biggest misconception about this organization.  They just value certain positions more than others and probably have one of the best business-savy approaches to the salary cap of any team in the league.

They showed Brady the money.  Likewise to Seymour a few years back.  They just showed Wilfork the money.  They showed Warren the money a few years back.  They showed big money to Adalius Thomas which unfortunately not the best deal.

They have a vision on what are the cornerstone positions/guys and are willing to let some others walk.

This isn't like the Carroll/Bobby Grier days where the team was showing everyone the big money (Chris Slade, anyone?) and ending up in salary cap hell.  That's a good thing.

I think the Carrol/Grier days was as much a problem getting talent as anything. 

Tebucky Jones anyone? Tony Simmons?

I see what you are saying. Perhaps if A Thomas had worked out the way he was supposed to we aren't having this conversation quite the same. But at the same time if Brushi and Vrabel had wanted to get paid what would have happened? And then when Samuel didn't get paid it resulted in a huge whole? Was that good business savy?

[Eja117]

I have to admit Goodell's announcment of McCourty gave me my biggest "Huh?" Pats draft moment since the Mankins pick.  I can only hope this kid ends up being that good of a pick.  

It sounds like Belichick was very high on this kid to begin with and even stated that he would've taken the kid at #22.  Smartly, he probably realized the kid was going to remain available later on.  This allowed him to trade down and accumulate multiple picks and ultimatly led him to get back into the 3rd round and well as move up a few slots in Rd. 4 which is huge because there was a significant gap between the Pats last 2nd rounder and their next selectin which I believe was going to be #119.  

That's smart decision-making there in terms of asset acquisition.  Why draft the kid at 22 when you know you can still get him 5 picks later AND pick up a 3rd round and move up in the 4th?  

Now, to the talent aspect of things.  I really think Belichick wasn't enamored with the so-called "first round talent" at the DE/LB position.  You have to understand that almost none of these kids have played in a pro-style 3-4 alignment in college.  Belichick likes certain guys to be on the ends here whether its at DE or OLB.   There were question marks on every DE/LB type that was available from 15 on about whether they could transition to the 3-4.  There were no slam dunks there.  Rather than reach, Belichick went with the safer option and took a CB (which believe it or not, was also a glaring need on this football team).  

I agree it was excellent asset acquisition.

I also admit there are probably things we don't know that BB does.

It's entirely possible his coaches are telling him "Coach you aren't going to believe this, but Butler took the offseason to eat and Wilhite goes to strip clubs every single night. But meanwhile T MKenzie and Crable are running through walls, lifting cars, and watching 26 hours of film a day, and Ron Brace is so different it's like he flipped a switch and MPryor is 10 times better than at this time last year"

But I just go by what I see and what I saw last year was a team with an imperfect but decent young secondary and huge holes everywhere else on D and a lot of problems on offense. The secondary was just about the only thing I felt pretty good about, besides maybe Brady.

[Cman]

some background info on McCourty:
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/563691?tag=DraftTrackerTableData;DraftTrackerTable27

A nice little nugget about his leadership:

However, it was his leadership skills that shined through during the team's 9-4 record in 2009. Safety Joe Lefeged learned the value of preparation from McCourty. "He could diagnose plays before they even started, based on what the offensive lines was doing or how the receivers were lining up," Lefeged said. "He was calling out plays before they even happened on the field."

Sounds like a smart guy, a leader, and someone who loves football.  Plus is flexible about his role.  In other words, the type of player BB just loves.

[Chris]

 

Now, to the talent aspect of things.  I really think Belichick wasn't enamored with the so-called "first round talent" at the DE/LB position.  You have to understand that almost none of these kids have played in a pro-style 3-4 alignment in college.  Belichick likes certain guys to be on the ends here whether its at DE or OLB.   There were question marks on every DE/LB type that was available from 15 on about whether they could transition to the 3-4.  There were no slam dunks there.  Rather than reach, Belichick went with the safer option and took a CB (which believe it or not, was also a glaring need on this football team).  

This is the key IMO.  One thing about Belichick is that he does not take chances in the first round.  He has never had someone completely bust in the first round.  So if he is not 100% confident a player can play in his system, he will not use a first rounder on him.  I think that was the case with the DE.  Yes, its an area of need, but that doesn't mean he needs to use the first rounder on it, if he doesn't believe in the pick. 

If he is going to pick guys who are not guarantees to fit in the system, then it makes much more sense to use later picks on them.  And with so many hybrid DE/LB's in the draft, it makes even more sense to pick them with less valuable picks.

[Eja117]

I guess you're right that he hasn't had complete busts in the 1rst rnd, but he's had very underwhelming 1rst rounders

Maroney
Daniel Graham
Ben Watson

and lost of 2nd rnd busts.

So it's disappointing to see him skip a guy he wasn't sure about in the 1rst that end up being big time guys to get guys he wasn't sure about in the 2nd that end up busting

[Rondo2287]

I guess you're right that he hasn't had complete busts in the 1rst rnd, but he's had very underwhelming 1rst rounders

Maroney
Daniel Graham
Ben Watson

and lost of 2nd rnd busts.

So it's disappointing to see him skip a guy he wasn't sure about in the 1rst that end up being big time guys to get guys he wasn't sure about in the 2nd that end up busting

Daniel Graham wasnt a bust, he was a superb blocking tight end that allowed Corey Dillon to have some of the best years in Patriots history.

[Rondo2287]

Anybody think that a better defensive backfield will improve the passrush?  I read last year that BB was hesitant to Blitz because he felt that this backfield needed the help with coverage.  If this pick helps sure up that coverage and allows bb to blitz more isnt that a good thing?

[Cman]

Anybody think that a better defensive backfield will improve the passrush?  I read last year that BB was hesitant to Blitz because he felt that this backfield needed the help with coverage.  If this pick helps sure up that coverage and allows bb to blitz more isnt that a good thing?

I like how you think. TP.