Author Topic: The Pick Two Draft Thread  (Read 547987 times)

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Re: The Pick Two Draft Thread
« Reply #870 on: February 03, 2010, 05:03:40 PM »

Offline Edgar

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people is in denial not tryint to accept my brilliant pick of Rip Hamilton
;)

Small ball for me

RIP

and one more player this round
what will it be Shard future
PF or SF

My Boy Andre Miller
Rip

Shard
Superman

Rip is good value here. I think people are preferring youth, but Hamilton still has plenty of legs left.

Although, he is not great from 3 pt land. Rashard will help you there, at least. Maybe another deep threat?
A lot of people we valuing age pretty highly. Seeing this I decided to older to improve my team. I love the Rip pickup, old injury prone and big contract, but he can ball. He'd be perfect for the Wizards.
For those that have expressed disinterest in my team, there is no way you can tell me that we aren't significantly better than the current Wizards.

And I absolutely agree
people is bragging about teams that are worst than real one
My goal is at least upgrade the surrounding cast of my superstarns
and bench and chemistry in order to make a more well balanced team
If its expensive so be it
I am going for championship
If I am seed No.3 why not going for No.1


and also
I have SUPERMAN!!!!!!


right now Miller>Jameer
and Rip > Vince

But, Edgar, I have Superman's Kryptonite. Perkins is in Dwight's head.
As long as youre not talking about last game  ;)
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Re: The Pick Two Draft Thread
« Reply #871 on: February 03, 2010, 05:04:15 PM »

Offline KCattheStripe

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Since this draft isn't being graded, I'm going to sign off on it.  If this were the CB draft, though, this one would be vetoed, without question.

Indiana (Slugger) sends Danny Granger and Roy Hibbert to

Utah (Slamtheking) for Lamar Odom and Utah's 4th round pick.


Ugh. Great trade for utah, awful value for granger.

how come my one sided trade proposals get laughed out of the building? :D



Please -  firstly Roy Hibbert is a string bean - cannot move my mother out of the low post and has poor lateral movement.  He is not even worth trading for a 7th rounder in my mind.

Danny Granger - this is a bit tougher to justify...

Firstly, he is a good scorer.  However, he isnt all that young (26), is injury prone, and to be honest i dont think he's all that explosive.

He was an all-star last year, but simply due to the fact he was in the east.  I dont think he's really the most valuable on his team.

I think people are looking at his scoring numbers without actually assessing the whole picture.

Lamar Odom to me has just as much value as Danny Granger.  Without him, no way are the Lakers as good.  He is a versatile 3-4 man that can put the ball on the floor, post up his man, is a fantastic passer, can lead the break, can spell your PG of ball-handling duties, and has a hot girlfriend.

I believe these reasons, plus the added value of trading (in effect) Roy Hibbert for a 4th pick, are good reasons.

Comments welcome
I think your assessment that Granger isn't that young at 26 but that you are trading him for a 30 year old is kind of strange

Granger is an All Star, Odom never
Granger will be one of the game best scorers for the next 6 years, Odom was never a great scorer
Granger is now almost a franchise type player, Odom is most effective coming off the bench

I don't like the deal either --- but in Slugger's defense, Granger has slipped a bit from elite swingman over the last year, though I suspect that's as much the Obie effect --- see how it ground Pierce down when he was at that same cusp --- than anything reflective of Granger's lack of ability.

And I'd agree Hibbert is probably getting a bit too much love too --- he's like Bynum 3 years ago when it was all potential. Good center who's really developed since his Freshman year at GTown, but he's no all-star.

that said, in these drafts you have to balance getting the guy you really want with getting solid value for each pick/player IMO

Thanks for putting another spin on it, however i have a couple of queries about a couple of your points.

A) Since when has Granger been an Elite swing-man.  He made the east all-star team, which has never been a mean feat.  Heck, even Jamal Magloire made an east AS team.

Slugger, not to belabor the point but, over the last 3 years combined Granger's averages:

22.4 ppg
5.6 rpg
2.4 apg
1.2 spg
1.2 bpg
2.4 3pt/gm

players to avg 20pt/4.5reb/1st/1blk over that span:
Lebron, Dwight Howard, Wade, Granger --- that's it.

players to average 1stl/1blk/1 3pt over that span:
Lebron, Rasheed, Granger

guys to do that for a single-season in the last 3:
Lebron (3 years), Granger (3 years)
Wade (2 years)
Rasheed, Marion, Francisco Garcia, (1 year each).

that's pretty elite company when you compare to Lebron.

to your point though Granger has not shown that he can make his team into a playoff contender, but total-skill-set-wise I'd say he's top 20 in the NBA. (and the anchor/2nd round steal of the 2008-09 Orlando Magics in the CBD II)

It's cool if you prefer Odom, but that doesnt' invalidate what Granger can and has done on the court over the last 3 years...




I think the bigger problem with the trade is not how much you value Granger, but how high his perceived value was and thus how much more you could have gotten for him in return.

Re: The Pick Two Draft Thread
« Reply #872 on: February 03, 2010, 05:08:18 PM »

Offline Gainesville Celtic

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yeah but beauty is always in the eye of the beholder KC --- you can't deal *just* based on how others perceive him. It's clear Slugger values Odom more than most here. That he went and got him, more power to him.

I wouldn't take some of the guys being taken over others --- but that's the fun in all this  ;D

(sorry for all the posts --- that's my final 2 cents on the deal)
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Re: The Pick Two Draft Thread
« Reply #873 on: February 03, 2010, 05:09:03 PM »

Offline riah32

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Well have way through the third round and I'm likeing my chances of getting a starting 3 man in the 4th round which allows me to move jr smith or crawford to the bench.
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Re: The Pick Two Draft Thread
« Reply #874 on: February 03, 2010, 05:09:27 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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I say we just move the discussion on to who has second place in the atlantic after the nets

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Re: The Pick Two Draft Thread
« Reply #875 on: February 03, 2010, 05:10:23 PM »

Offline ChampKind

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On Granger and Hibbert:

As a Pacers season ticket holder, I think I am qualified to discuss.

Granger is the real deal, showcased by his crunch time scoring. He can defend three positions, rebounds well, and can score from anywhere. However, he has regressed this year - he's less aggressive and settles for too many threes. It's possible that he's devolving into Antoine Jr., but unlikely.

Simply put, Granger is a player you can build a franchise around - he'll put up 25-6-3 a night, and will fill any role that is asked of him. You can say the same thing about Odom, only he'll give you less production at a higher age.

Secondly, your assessment of Hibbert is one-dimensional. His post defense isn't great, but his post scoring shows loads of potential. He has an arsenal of moves in the post (all ugly) that are effective, and is an excellent help defender. While solid bigs will abuse him defensively, he's a legit starting center with the potential to be a top 15 big man. Unfortunately, he's inconsistent and fouls too often, and does need to put on weight - but he's a 7'2" center with a smooth jumper and good shot blocking instincts. Everyone in Indiana considers him a building block, along with Granger.

Conversely, no one has considered Odom a foundation piece since his time in Miami.

Even more importantly, you traded away a cheap, rising player at a position of extreme need for a pick where big men are going to be scarce. That part is tough to justify.

So props for going ahead with a gutsy trade and having the nuts to stick your neck out there, but I don't think you got the best of this deal.
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Re: The Pick Two Draft Thread
« Reply #876 on: February 03, 2010, 05:10:32 PM »

Offline Gomesfan

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PHX is prepared to make their pick once Wiggles waddles up to the podium and announces his pick!

I don't waddle, I wiggle, and I don't fall down. Also I'm waiting on a response to a trade offer.

I lieu of my pick, I offer the following thoughts.

1. I agree with Slugger's assessment of Hibbert, though I'm not sure he'll be able to replace him easily in the 4th round. And whatever his confidence in Granger, it's clear he could've gotten a better return.

2. Rip Hamilton may be the best value pick of the round.

3. I believe Batum is more a 4 than he is a 2.
Well Toine waddles now so maybe you shoulb be called "the WalkerWaddle". Oh yeah and bye the way does Walker's debt count towards your salary cap? lol

Take your time!
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Re: The Pick Two Draft Thread
« Reply #877 on: February 03, 2010, 05:11:06 PM »

Offline KCattheStripe

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yeah but beauty is always in the eye of the beholder KC --- you can't deal *just* based on how others perceive him. It's clear Slugger values Odom more than most here. That he went and got him, more power to him.

I wouldn't take some of the guys being taken over others --- but that's the fun in all this  ;D

(sorry for all the posts --- that's my final 2 cents on the deal)


I'm just saying he should have found someone who thought GRanger was insanely beautiful. :P

Re: The Pick Two Draft Thread
« Reply #878 on: February 03, 2010, 05:13:31 PM »

Offline Edgar

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PHX is prepared to make their pick once Wiggles waddles up to the podium and announces his pick!

I don't waddle, I wiggle, and I don't fall down. Also I'm waiting on a response to a trade offer.

I lieu of my pick, I offer the following thoughts.

1. I agree with Slugger's assessment of Hibbert, though I'm not sure he'll be able to replace him easily in the 4th round. And whatever his confidence in Granger, it's clear he could've gotten a better return.

2. Rip Hamilton may be the best value pick of the round.

3. I believe Batum is more a 4 than he is a 2.
Well Toine waddles now so maybe you shoulb be called "the WalkerWaddle". Oh yeah and bye the way does Walker's debt count towards your salary cap? lol

Take your time!

ty WW I agree absolutgely

I was thinking thanks to a friend of him even over crawford
JC is only on a good enviroment , wonder what RH can be able to do in hotlanta
well hes now in orlando so we will see ;)
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Re: The Pick Two Draft Thread
« Reply #879 on: February 03, 2010, 05:13:40 PM »

Offline Gainesville Celtic

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In a surprise announcement, the Milwaukee Bucks are finalizing negotiations with Nolan Richardson to become the Assistant Coach in Charge of 48 Minutes of, uh, Heck.
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Re: The Pick Two Draft Thread
« Reply #880 on: February 03, 2010, 05:14:41 PM »

Offline Gainesville Celtic

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On Granger and Hibbert:

As a Pacers season ticket holder, I think I am qualified to discuss.

Granger is the real deal, showcased by his crunch time scoring. He can defend three positions, rebounds well, and can score from anywhere. However, he has regressed this year - he's less aggressive and settles for too many threes. It's possible that he's devolving into Antoine Jr., but unlikely.

Simply put, Granger is a player you can build a franchise around - he'll put up 25-6-3 a night, and will fill any role that is asked of him. You can say the same thing about Odom, only he'll give you less production at a higher age.

Secondly, your assessment of Hibbert is one-dimensional. His post defense isn't great, but his post scoring shows loads of potential. He has an arsenal of moves in the post (all ugly) that are effective, and is an excellent help defender. While solid bigs will abuse him defensively, he's a legit starting center with the potential to be a top 15 big man. Unfortunately, he's inconsistent and fouls too often, and does need to put on weight - but he's a 7'2" center with a smooth jumper and good shot blocking instincts. Everyone in Indiana considers him a building block, along with Granger.

Conversely, no one has considered Odom a foundation piece since his time in Miami.

Even more importantly, you traded away a cheap, rising player at a position of extreme need for a pick where big men are going to be scarce. That part is tough to justify.

So props for going ahead with a gutsy trade and having the nuts to stick your neck out there, but I don't think you got the best of this deal.

Champ -- is Obie really trying to make Granger a PF? I read some things where Granger was admitting that it was taking it's toll on him.
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Re: The Pick Two Draft Thread
« Reply #881 on: February 03, 2010, 05:15:22 PM »

Offline Gainesville Celtic

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yeah but beauty is always in the eye of the beholder KC --- you can't deal *just* based on how others perceive him. It's clear Slugger values Odom more than most here. That he went and got him, more power to him.

I wouldn't take some of the guys being taken over others --- but that's the fun in all this  ;D

(sorry for all the posts --- that's my final 2 cents on the deal)


I'm just saying he should have found someone who thought GRanger was insanely beautiful. :P

TP
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Re: The Pick Two Draft Thread
« Reply #882 on: February 03, 2010, 05:15:38 PM »

Offline Edgar

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I want my 6th man more than I want my 5th


My side on the deal is that I was just ready to give andre and shard for Granger
and thats a whole better deal
I dont care cause my team will be better.

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Re: The Pick Two Draft Thread
« Reply #883 on: February 03, 2010, 05:17:47 PM »

Offline Gainesville Celtic

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Wiggle -- are you really not picking or did i miss it?
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Re: The Pick Two Draft Thread
« Reply #884 on: February 03, 2010, 05:18:56 PM »

Offline crownsy

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Wiggle -- are you really not picking or did i miss it?

he should be picking in a second, we were trading PM's
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