The Pick Two Draft Thread

[crownsy]

Since this draft isn't being graded, I'm going to sign off on it.  If this were the CB draft, though, this one would be vetoed, without question.

Indiana (Slugger) sends Danny Granger and Roy Hibbert to

Utah (Slamtheking) for Lamar Odom and Utah's 4th round pick.

Ugh. Great trade for utah, awful value for granger.

how come my one sided trade proposals get laughed out of the building?

Please -  firstly Roy Hibbert is a string bean - cannot move my mother out of the low post and has poor lateral movement.  He is not even worth trading for a 7th rounder in my mind.

Danny Granger - this is a bit tougher to justify...

Firstly, he is a good scorer.  However, he isnt all that young (26), is injury prone, and to be honest i dont think he's all that explosive.

He was an all-star last year, but simply due to the fact he was in the east.  I dont think he's really the most valuable on his team.

I think people are looking at his scoring numbers without actually assessing the whole picture.

Lamar Odom to me has just as much value as Danny Granger.  Without him, no way are the Lakers as good.  He is a versatile 3-4 man that can put the ball on the floor, post up his man, is a fantastic passer, can lead the break, can spell your PG of ball-handling duties, and has a hot girlfriend.

I believe these reasons, plus the added value of trading (in effect) Roy Hibbert for a 4th pick, are good reasons.

Comments welcome

I think your assessment that Granger isn't that young at 26 but that you are trading him for a 30 year old is kind of strange

Granger is an All Star, Odom never
Granger will be one of the game best scorers for the next 6 years, Odom was never a great scorer
Granger is now almost a franchise type player, Odom is most effective coming off the bench

I don't like the deal either --- but in Slugger's defense, Granger has slipped a bit from elite swingman over the last year, though I suspect that's as much the Obie effect --- see how it ground Pierce down when he was at that same cusp --- than anything reflective of Granger's lack of ability.

And I'd agree Hibbert is probably getting a bit too much love too --- he's like Bynum 3 years ago when it was all potential. Good center who's really developed since his Freshman year at GTown, but he's no all-star.

that said, in these drafts you have to balance getting the guy you really want with getting solid value for each pick/player IMO

Thanks for putting another spin on it, however i have a couple of queries about a couple of your points.

A) Since when has Granger been an Elite swing-man.  He made the east all-star team, which has never been a mean feat.  Heck, even Jamal Magloire made an east AS team.

Secondly, Hibbert and Bynum are not comparable at the early stages in their careers.  Bynum always had size and strength (or the body to gain strength).  Hibbert is very weak in the post, and may one day make an ok weak side shot blocker.  His ceiling is max Marcus Camby.  Camby is not a good centre.

I strongly disagree with your assessment of danny granger, as do alot of people here. that's where the negative take on the trade comes from.

[The Walker Wiggle]

Lamar Odom to me has just as much value as Danny Granger.  Without him, no way are the Lakers as good.  He is a versatile 3-4 man that can put the ball on the floor, post up his man, is a fantastic passer, can lead the break, can spell your PG of ball-handling duties, and has a hot girlfriend.

Well, the Lakers would be better with Granger as their 6th man than Odom, so that seems a specious argument.

So is the argument that Granger is injury prone, since over his career he's averaged nearly 10 games more a season than Odom, and is four years younger.

Why would Granger suit their system better - all he does better is score.

Lamar can be a really good scorer.  Everything else Lamar does better - even at 30 years old

Well, you didn't address the fact that he's proven less injury prone.

As for Odom's versatility, by the numbers, Granger is the better defender at PF. And while he may not be as good a passer, he's also more careful with the ball. (Odom's focus has been an issue through-out his career.)

I'm not sure you can hand wave away the scoring numbers either, not when comparing an elite scorer to a solid 3rd option. Odom is also a liability at the free throw line while Granger is a career 84% shooter.

I'm wondering if people are just going off Grangers stats, and also the hatred for everything that is L.A.

That said, a pat on the back and a Tommy Point for handling the cross examination so coolly.

[Lucky17]

Any thoughts?

1. Derrick Rose
2. Nicolas Batum
3. Danillo Gallinari
4. Emeka Okafor
5. Joakim Noah.

I thought Batum was a SF? Is he mobile enough to guard SGs?

Extremely athletic and 6'8", Portland's go to defensive player, especially to keep Roy out of foul trouble.

I know; they love him here in Portland. I think he's made everyone here forget Travis Outlaw completely.

But he seems to be more of a SF than a 2/3. Roy, Rudy, and Martell play the 2 for the Blazers (when they don't run a 2 PG set).

[Gomesfan]

PHX is prepared to make their pick once Wiggles waddles up to the podium and announces his pick!

[crownsy]

Lamar Odom to me has just as much value as Danny Granger.  Without him, no way are the Lakers as good.  He is a versatile 3-4 man that can put the ball on the floor, post up his man, is a fantastic passer, can lead the break, can spell your PG of ball-handling duties, and has a hot girlfriend.

Well, the Lakers would be better with Granger as their 6th man than Odom, so that seems a specious argument.

So is the argument that Granger is injury prone, since over his career he's averaged nearly 10 games more a season than Odom, and is four years younger.

Why would Granger suit their system better - all he does better is score.

Lamar can be a really good scorer.  Everything else Lamar does better - even at 30 years old

Well, you didn't address the fact that he's proven less injury prone.

As for Odom's versatility, by the numbers, Granger is the better defender at PF. And while he may not be as good a passer, he's also more careful with the ball. (Odom's focus has been an issue through-out his career.)

I'm not sure you can hand wave away the scoring numbers either, not when comparing an elite scorer to a solid 3rd option. Odom is also a liability at the free throw line while Granger is a career 84% shooter.

I'm wondering if people are just going off Grangers stats, and also the hatred for everything that is L.A.

That said, a pat on the back and a Tommy Point for handling the cross examination so coolly.

TP for me as well, the analysis is good, it just depends alot on really undervaluing danny granger.

I can't get behind that, but i can see the trade if you hold that view of him.

[Evantime34]

Small ball for me

RIP

and one more player this round
what will it be Shard future
PF or SF

My Boy Andre Miller
Rip

Shard
Superman

Rip is good value here. I think people are preferring youth, but Hamilton still has plenty of legs left.

Although, he is not great from 3 pt land. Rashard will help you there, at least. Maybe another deep threat?

A lot of people we valuing age pretty highly. Seeing this I decided to older to improve my team. I love the Rip pickup, old injury prone and big contract, but he can ball. He'd be perfect for the Wizards.
For those that have expressed disinterest in my team, there is no way you can tell me that we aren't significantly better than the current Wizards.

[KCattheStripe]

Any thoughts?

1. Derrick Rose
2. Nicolas Batum
3. Danillo Gallinari
4. Emeka Okafor
5. Joakim Noah.

I thought Batum was a SF? Is he mobile enough to guard SGs?

Extremely athletic and 6'8", Portland's go to defensive player, especially to keep Roy out of foul trouble.

I know; they love him here in Portland. I think he's made everyone here forget Travis Outlaw completely.

But he seems to be more of a SF than a 2/3. Roy, Rudy, and Martell play the 2 for the Blazers.

 I thinks thats a sign of Portland having plenty of good 2 guards so they never need him to slide, as opposed to him being unable to. I, unfortunately, have no such problem.

[Edgar]

people is in denial not tryint to accept my brilliant pick of Rip Hamilton

Small ball for me

RIP

and one more player this round
what will it be Shard future
PF or SF

My Boy Andre Miller
Rip

Shard
Superman

Rip is good value here. I think people are preferring youth, but Hamilton still has plenty of legs left.

Although, he is not great from 3 pt land. Rashard will help you there, at least. Maybe another deep threat?

A lot of people we valuing age pretty highly. Seeing this I decided to older to improve my team. I love the Rip pickup, old injury prone and big contract, but he can ball. He'd be perfect for the Wizards.
For those that have expressed disinterest in my team, there is no way you can tell me that we aren't significantly better than the current Wizards.

And I absolutely agree
people is bragging about teams that are worst than real one
My goal is at least upgrade the surrounding cast of my superstarns
and bench and chemistry in order to make a more well balanced team
If its expensive so be it
I am going for championship
If I am seed No.3 why not going for No.1


and also
I have SUPERMAN!!!!!!


right now Miller>Jameer
and Rip > Vince

[KCattheStripe]

Small ball for me

RIP

and one more player this round
what will it be Shard future
PF or SF

My Boy Andre Miller
Rip

Shard
Superman

Rip is good value here. I think people are preferring youth, but Hamilton still has plenty of legs left.

Although, he is not great from 3 pt land. Rashard will help you there, at least. Maybe another deep threat?

A lot of people we valuing age pretty highly. Seeing this I decided to older to improve my team. I love the Rip pickup, old injury prone and big contract, but he can ball. He'd be perfect for the Wizards.
For those that have expressed disinterest in my team, there is no way you can tell me that we aren't significantly better than the current Wizards.

Just so long as you stay on the floor.  

[Lucky17]

Any thoughts?

1. Derrick Rose
2. Nicolas Batum
3. Danillo Gallinari
4. Emeka Okafor
5. Joakim Noah.

I thought Batum was a SF? Is he mobile enough to guard SGs?

Extremely athletic and 6'8", Portland's go to defensive player, especially to keep Roy out of foul trouble.

I know; they love him here in Portland. I think he's made everyone here forget Travis Outlaw completely.

But he seems to be more of a SF than a 2/3. Roy, Rudy, and Martell play the 2 for the Blazers.

 I thinks thats a sign of Portland having plenty of good 2 guards so they never need him to slide, as opposed to him being unable to. I, unfortunately, have no such problem.

That's true.

[The Walker Wiggle]

PHX is prepared to make their pick once Wiggles waddles up to the podium and announces his pick!

I don't waddle, I wiggle, and I don't fall down. Also I'm waiting on a response to a trade offer.

I lieu of my pick, I offer the following thoughts.

1. I agree with Slugger's assessment of Hibbert, though I'm not sure he'll be able to replace him easily in the 4th round. And whatever his confidence in Granger, it's clear he could've gotten a better return.

2. Rip Hamilton may be the best value pick of the round.

3. I believe Batum is more a 4 than he is a 2.

[Lucky17]

people is in denial not tryint to accept my brilliant pick of Rip Hamilton

Small ball for me

RIP

and one more player this round
what will it be Shard future
PF or SF

My Boy Andre Miller
Rip

Shard
Superman

Rip is good value here. I think people are preferring youth, but Hamilton still has plenty of legs left.

Although, he is not great from 3 pt land. Rashard will help you there, at least. Maybe another deep threat?

A lot of people we valuing age pretty highly. Seeing this I decided to older to improve my team. I love the Rip pickup, old injury prone and big contract, but he can ball. He'd be perfect for the Wizards.
For those that have expressed disinterest in my team, there is no way you can tell me that we aren't significantly better than the current Wizards.

And I absolutely agree
people is bragging about teams that are worst than real one
My goal is at least upgrade the surrounding cast of my superstarns
and bench and chemistry in order to make a more well balanced team
If its expensive so be it
I am going for championship
If I am seed No.3 why not going for No.1


and also
I have SUPERMAN!!!!!!


right now Miller>Jameer
and Rip > Vince

But, Edgar, I have Superman's Kryptonite. Perkins is in Dwight's head.

[KCattheStripe]

people is in denial not tryint to accept my brilliant pick of Rip Hamilton

Small ball for me

RIP

and one more player this round
what will it be Shard future
PF or SF

My Boy Andre Miller
Rip

Shard
Superman

Rip is good value here. I think people are preferring youth, but Hamilton still has plenty of legs left.

Although, he is not great from 3 pt land. Rashard will help you there, at least. Maybe another deep threat?

A lot of people we valuing age pretty highly. Seeing this I decided to older to improve my team. I love the Rip pickup, old injury prone and big contract, but he can ball. He'd be perfect for the Wizards.
For those that have expressed disinterest in my team, there is no way you can tell me that we aren't significantly better than the current Wizards.

And I absolutely agree
people is bragging about teams that are worst than real one
My goal is at least upgrade the surrounding cast of my superstarns
and bench and chemistry in order to make a more well balanced team
If its expensive so be it
I am going for championship
If I am seed No.3 why not going for No.1


and also
I have SUPERMAN!!!!!!


right now Miller>Jameer
and Rip > Vince

I actually have no idea if my team is better, but I think they're in better shape going forward.

1. Derrick Rose
2. Nicolas Batum
3. Danillo Gallinari
4. Emeka Okafor
5. Joakim Noah.

[KCattheStripe]

PHX is prepared to make their pick once Wiggles waddles up to the podium and announces his pick!

I don't waddle, I wiggle, and I don't fall down. Also I'm waiting on a response to a trade offer.

I lieu of my pick, I offer the following thoughts.

1. I agree with Slugger's assessment of Hibbert, though I'm not sure he'll be able to replace him easily in the 4th round. And whatever his confidence in Granger, it's clear he could've gotten better value.

2. Rip Hamilton may be the best value pick of the round.

3. I believe Batum is more a 4 than he is a 2.

I could not disagree more. Especially because of how little time he spends in the post.

[Gainesville Celtic]

Since this draft isn't being graded, I'm going to sign off on it.  If this were the CB draft, though, this one would be vetoed, without question.

Indiana (Slugger) sends Danny Granger and Roy Hibbert to

Utah (Slamtheking) for Lamar Odom and Utah's 4th round pick.

Ugh. Great trade for utah, awful value for granger.

how come my one sided trade proposals get laughed out of the building?

Please -  firstly Roy Hibbert is a string bean - cannot move my mother out of the low post and has poor lateral movement.  He is not even worth trading for a 7th rounder in my mind.

Danny Granger - this is a bit tougher to justify...

Firstly, he is a good scorer.  However, he isnt all that young (26), is injury prone, and to be honest i dont think he's all that explosive.

He was an all-star last year, but simply due to the fact he was in the east.  I dont think he's really the most valuable on his team.

I think people are looking at his scoring numbers without actually assessing the whole picture.

Lamar Odom to me has just as much value as Danny Granger.  Without him, no way are the Lakers as good.  He is a versatile 3-4 man that can put the ball on the floor, post up his man, is a fantastic passer, can lead the break, can spell your PG of ball-handling duties, and has a hot girlfriend.

I believe these reasons, plus the added value of trading (in effect) Roy Hibbert for a 4th pick, are good reasons.

Comments welcome

I think your assessment that Granger isn't that young at 26 but that you are trading him for a 30 year old is kind of strange

Granger is an All Star, Odom never
Granger will be one of the game best scorers for the next 6 years, Odom was never a great scorer
Granger is now almost a franchise type player, Odom is most effective coming off the bench

I don't like the deal either --- but in Slugger's defense, Granger has slipped a bit from elite swingman over the last year, though I suspect that's as much the Obie effect --- see how it ground Pierce down when he was at that same cusp --- than anything reflective of Granger's lack of ability.

And I'd agree Hibbert is probably getting a bit too much love too --- he's like Bynum 3 years ago when it was all potential. Good center who's really developed since his Freshman year at GTown, but he's no all-star.

that said, in these drafts you have to balance getting the guy you really want with getting solid value for each pick/player IMO

Thanks for putting another spin on it, however i have a couple of queries about a couple of your points.

A) Since when has Granger been an Elite swing-man.  He made the east all-star team, which has never been a mean feat.  Heck, even Jamal Magloire made an east AS team.

Slugger, not to belabor the point but, over the last 3 years combined Granger's averages:

22.4 ppg
5.6 rpg
2.4 apg
1.2 spg
1.2 bpg
2.4 3pt/gm

players to avg 20pt/4.5reb/1st/1blk over that span:
Lebron, Dwight Howard, Wade, Granger --- that's it.

players to average 1stl/1blk/1 3pt over that span:
Lebron, Rasheed, Granger

guys to do that for a single-season in the last 3:
Lebron (3 years), Granger (3 years)
Wade (2 years)
Rasheed, Marion, Francisco Garcia, (1 year each).

that's pretty elite company when you compare to Lebron, Wade, Dwight Howard....

to your point though Granger has not shown that he can make his team into a playoff contender, but total-skill-set-wise I'd say he's top 20 in the NBA. (and the anchor/2nd round steal of the 2008-09 Orlando Magics in the CBD II)

It's cool if you prefer Odom, but that doesnt' invalidate what Granger can and has done on the court over the last 3 years...