How About More Tony and Less Ray?

[Andy Jick]

This is what I missed about posting on this site for a year: knee jerk reactions.  Ray has a bad game and we're ready to sit him in favor of the basketball-IQ-challenged Tony Allen...  Gotta love it! 

[vinnie]

This is what I missed about posting on this site for a year: knee jerk reactions.  Ray has a bad game and we're ready to sit him in favor of the basketball-IQ-challenged Tony Allen...  Gotta love it! 

I hear you, but Ray has had more than one bad game. In the last 8 or 9, for the most part, he has not been good. And, he truly cannot guard anyone anymore. He can still start, but when he is getting torched on the defensive end, Doc really needs to think about pulling him out and putting in TA. I personally think Eddie House is a bigger problem and would love to see him replaced.

[Bankshot]

This is what I missed about posting on this site for a year: knee jerk reactions.  Ray has a bad game and we're ready to sit him in favor of the basketball-IQ-challenged Tony Allen...  Gotta love it! 

I hear you, but Ray has had more than one bad game. In the last 8 or 9, for the most part, he has not been good. And, he truly cannot guard anyone anymore. He can still start, but when he is getting torched on the defensive end, Doc really needs to think about pulling him out and putting in TA. I personally think Eddie House is a bigger problem and would love to see him replaced.

Agreed.  House is a whole other story.  Both he and Ray are killing the Celtics right now.

[Jon]

This is what I missed about posting on this site for a year: knee jerk reactions.  Ray has a bad game and we're ready to sit him in favor of the basketball-IQ-challenged Tony Allen...  Gotta love it! 

I hear you, but Ray has had more than one bad game. In the last 8 or 9, for the most part, he has not been good. And, he truly cannot guard anyone anymore. He can still start, but when he is getting torched on the defensive end, Doc really needs to think about pulling him out and putting in TA. I personally think Eddie House is a bigger problem and would love to see him replaced.

Agreed.  House is a whole other story.  Both he and Ray are killing the Celtics right now.

Well, while I'm not sure I want to see this happen, when Marquis comes back, he and Tony could conceivably take all the backup 1-3 minutes, leaving House out of the equation. 

[Roy Hobbs]

Here's the problem with giving Tony more minutes:  a large part of our offense is based upon the spacing that Ray gives us. 

Tony, despite overall playing pretty well this year, is shooting jump shots at an eFG% of 18.1%.  That's one of the worst marks in the NBA -- it may be the very worst among SGs -- which means that the defense can collapse on the interior and clog things up. 

[snively]

Hopefully Daniels return will mean a bit less of Ray.  TA just can't approximate Ray's offensive role.  As a non-shooting threat and turnover-prone ball-handler, he's not really viable as the first point of attack for the 2nd unit, which is Ray's role with the 2nd unit.  Daniels ball-handling and passing ability make him a better fit for that role than TA, and hopefully he'll perform at a high enough level in that role for Doc to keep Ray's minutes down a bit.

Unfortunately Daniels hasn't been that good for us.  He's been so passive that Doc usually ends up playing Ray alongside him anyways.

[Neurotic Guy]

This is what I missed about posting on this site for a year: knee jerk reactions.  Ray has a bad game and we're ready to sit him in favor of the basketball-IQ-challenged Tony Allen...  Gotta love it! 

I agree. 

Ray has had bad stretches before, and it seems every time there is talk that he is done.  I believe Ray's demise is going to be a slow one and, though it's begun, he ain't done yet.   Oh -- and I like Tony and am very pleased with what he's done this year.

I still feel a sense of calm when Ray is on the floor -- he makes far more smart plays than dumb ones and I agree with those who feel his presence on the floor opens offense for the others.   

[Jon]

I really wouldn't be surprised to see Ray pick it up defensively in the playoffs.  After all, defense is primarily effort driven.  Right now the attitude on this team is that being healthy for the playoffs is more important than winning every regular season game.  Thus, it should come as little surprise if the players aren't going 100% right now.  Moreover, with all the minutes Ray's been playing AND the fact that the C's have had to lean on him more as a ball-handler, I wouldn't be surprised if fatigue had something to do with it too. 

Once it becomes do-or-die, I expect Ray to be something closer to what he was before. 

[Rondo_is_better]

How 'bout more Giddens and less Pierce, too? SCREW THE VETS YEAHHHHHHHHH

[thirstyboots18]

The team defense is so much better with RR,TA,PP,RW,KP. I've really been seeing Ray's defensive weakness since KG has been out.

The reason you are seeing Ray's defensive weakness is because he is getting worn out on the offensive end, much like Paul Pierce was when he was the whole team.  With KG back and Paul healthy, and relief minutes from Marquis, Ray won't have to try to be the whole team offense.  Remember two years ago Ray and Paul shut down Kobe.  That is not a defensive weakness.  Too many times this year there has been no movement in the paint...everyone stands around outside and waits for three point shots.  KG will help alleviate that (as will Marquis, who drives to the basket.  Paul and Ray have been settling.  With KG back, ball movement will improve and Ray will not have to work as many minutes.  Defense is draining work and relief is needed.  (I know I sound like a broken record...)

[Jon]

The team defense is so much better with RR,TA,PP,RW,KP. I've really been seeing Ray's defensive weakness since KG has been out.

The reason you are seeing Ray's defensive weakness is because he is getting worn out on the offensive end, much like Paul Pierce was when he was the whole team.  With KG back and Paul healthy, and relief minutes from Marquis, Ray won't have to try to be the whole team offense.  Remember two years ago Ray and Paul shut down Kobe.  That is not a defensive weakness.  Too many times this year there has been no movement in the paint...everyone stands around outside and waits for three point shots.  KG will help alleviate that (as will Marquis, who drives to the basket.  Paul and Ray have been settling.  With KG back, ball movement will improve and Ray will not have to work as many minutes.  Defense is draining work and relief is needed.  (I know I sound like a broken record...)

TP.  I don't know why more people can't seem to grasp this concept.  Our best player has been out for a while now.  Rondo, Paul, and Rasheed have been banged up.  Our only NBA caliber wing bench player has been out for more than a month.  And Ray's been playing nearly 37 mpg and having to handle the ball.  And people wonder why the C's are struggling and Ray looks worn down.  Geesh. 

More importantly, to play a broken record of my own, I think on some level, conscious or subconscious, the Celtics aren't trying as hard as they used to.  I imagine it's hard to convince yourself that you need to give 110% every night when management has publicly stated they're being overly cautious with every injury because the regular season doesn't matter that much. 

I think that has a lot to do with what Ray looks like on the defensive end.  And I think that'll fix itself with more KG and when games actually start to matter. 

[QuinielaBox]

I support more Ray Allen and less Tony because he is an experienced court-savvy veteran.

Tony does have some good moments out there but makes too many dumb mistakes that set the C's back.

[xmuscularghandix]

I support more Ray Allen and less Tony because he is an experienced court-savvy veteran.

Tony does have some good moments out there but makes too many dumb mistakes that set the C's back.

How many times has Ray Allen turned the ball over with under 5 to play in the game? It seems like it's getting pretty common...

[rondohondo]

I know this seems like a reactionary thread to the 1st half of the lakers game and it is somewhat, but I have also thought about this before and I think it could really work.

- TA has historically been a much better starter. He give us a much better man to man defender in the starting lineup. He also gets out and runs the floor with Rondo.

- We have been looking for a spark off the bench all season. Ray would be able to play against opposing 2nd units and would be able to get more looks than he is in the starting unit.

- It cuts down Rays mins allowing him to be more effective and fresh.

- It has worked for the Spurs in the past with Ginobali. I think Ray would do anything to help this team win


I really think Doc should give this some consideration.

[fanofgreen]

My issue with this is that, I am just not comfortable with a starting backcourt of Rondo and Tony Allen.

I mean, two guards who aren't comfortable with the jumpshot, thats just not good backcourt balance, defenses would sag off so much, and close down the lanes and post entry passing lanes, its just not a good balanced backcourt to start.

And I'm not comfortable with a Rondo-House combo, obviously with the size of house, and streakiness. Also lack of being able to create anything off the dribble.

The Spurs have the luxury of opting to put in Finley, Roger Mason Jr., Bogans, or George Hill, in the starting SG spot.

We have Eddie House, Tony Allen, JR Giddens