How About More Tony and Less Ray?

[MBz]

I really do feel as if Sheed has a lot to do with Ray's shooting slump.  Sheed just takes too many shots, shots which should be heading in Ray's direction.  Ray is a shooter.  All shooters are streaky.  With that said, he needs to keep shooting.  There are also only so many shots to go around, if Sheed keeps shooting at the pace he does and Ray Allen's shot attempts to continue to be down, I really do think Allen's fg% will continue to be down.

[crownsy]

I really do feel as if Sheed has a lot to do with Ray's shooting slump.  Sheed just takes too many shots, shots which should be heading in Ray's direction.  Ray is a shooter.  All shooters are streaky.  With that said, he needs to keep shooting.  There are also only so many shots to go around, if Sheed keeps shooting at the pace he does and Ray Allen's shot attempts to continue to be down, I really do think Allen's fg% will continue to be down.

works both ways, ray gets a ton of open looks because his defender can't close out and ignore sheed at the top of the key of the pick and role or motion.

Bottom line: ray needs to start hitting his shots, alot of them are WIDE open.

[crownsy]

How about more Marquis when he is healthy and less Ray to give his aged body some rest. That I do. TA, not so much...

Why does everyone love Daniels? TA has outplayed him thus far this year. Daniels did practically nothing while he was healthy.

Completely unsupportable hyperbole in my opinion, daniels played fine while he was in and kept the second team moving, as well as nearly always making the smart, safe play.

tony has been better than i expected him to be, but still has far to many brain fart plays on both sides of the ball.

[Who]

I'm not interested in starting another perimeter who cannot shoot the ball in place of Ray Allen. Not alongside Rondo and Perkins.

It's an interesting idea ... I just don't think this Celtics team has the horses needed to make it work. Maybe next season.

[Bankshot]

I'm not interested in starting another perimeter who cannot shoot the ball in place of Ray Allen. Not alongside Rondo and Perkins.

It's an interesting idea ... I just don't think this Celtics team has the horses needed to make it work. Maybe next season.

Who said anything about starting Tony?  The only thing I said was to give Ray less minutes (like 30) and give those extra 5 or so minutes to Tony. So instead of Tony playing 10 minutes, he get 15 or 20 until Daniels gets back.

[Who]

I'm not interested in starting another perimeter who cannot shoot the ball in place of Ray Allen. Not alongside Rondo and Perkins.

It's an interesting idea ... I just don't think this Celtics team has the horses needed to make it work. Maybe next season.

Who said anything about starting Tony?  The only thing I said was to give Ray less minutes (like 30) and give those extra 5 or so minutes to Tony. So instead of Tony playing 10 minutes, he get 15 or 20 until Daniels gets back.

I'm sorry, I read your post wrong. The whole thread really. My mistake. I thought you wanted to start Daniels or TA until Daniels came back with Ray getting extended minutes off the bench (Ginobili minutes) ... anyway, the point remains, my main concern is fielding another non-shooter alongside the remaining starters.

I would be okay with Daniels playing alongside Rasheed Wallace instead of Perkins. That main unit needs another shooter. Sheed could provide that and allow the C's to go with Marquis a bit more. So less court time for Perkins and more Rasheed. Also, this isn't possible until Kevin Garnett comes back. Needs to be a KG + Sheed combo + Pierce to offset Rondo + Daniels/TA.

[Bankshot]

Last night was the perfect example of why Ray needs to play less minutes (28-30) and those extra minutes Ray doesn't play need to go to Tony. Miller shot jumpshots against Tony, but as soon as Ray came into the game he put his head down and headed straight for the hoop.  Ray got torched by whoever he was guarding.  With the exception of that one good defensive play against Bayless, he was horrible.  And his offense is bad too.  With the exception of that 3 in overtime.  If it wasn't for Ray missing 3 layups and wide open shots and his horrible defense, Celtics wouldn't have been in an overtime game with the Blazers in the first place, even with the horrible rebounding. Give Tony more minutes, especially when it's clear he's not having one of his bad games, which so far have been limited.

[Drucci]

Doc is overplaying Ray (another 40+ minutes game yesterday) and this needs to stop right now.

The problem is, even when Tony is effective, Doc still plays Ray because of the spacing he brings to the team's offense.

And I think Ray asks to stay in the game almost all the time, and Doc just can't tell him "no".

That's a concern. If Ray is tired for the playoffs, we will be in trouble because we need everybody to contribute. Not to mention that playing him heavy minutes for the next 4 months could injure him.

Ray is the Celtic who logs the more minutes this season and yet Doc doesn't seem to realize that it's a terrible mistake of coaching.

I hope Marquis' return will make him rest Ray more and play Marquis more minutes but he didn't do it early in the season when Marquis was healthy and I don't see him doing it now either, alas.

[Bankshot]

But I don't understand.  Why is he overplaying the oldest player on the team!?  It's obvious that the defense is better when Tony plays, and the offense doesn't seem to suffer because while he can't shoot, he can score. It's so obvious, but Doc can't see it? Even when Ray's playing terrible and Tony's playing decent, he doesn't bring in Tony for Ray.

[PLamb]

Doc is overplaying Ray (another 40+ minutes game yesterday) and this needs to stop right now.

The problem is, even when Tony is effective, Doc still plays Ray because of the spacing he brings to the team's offense.

And I think Ray asks to stay in the game almost all the time, and Doc just can't tell him "no".

That's a concern. If Ray is tired for the playoffs, we will be in trouble because we need everybody to contribute. Not to mention that playing him heavy minutes for the next 4 months could injure him.

Ray is the Celtic who logs the more minutes this season and yet Doc doesn't seem to realize that it's a terrible mistake of coaching.

I hope Marquis' return will make him rest Ray more and play Marquis more minutes but he didn't do it early in the season when Marquis was healthy and I don't see him doing it now either, alas.

Ray is playing 6 seconds more per game than last year, 36 seconds per game more than in 2007-08, but is playing 1 minute and 48 seconds less per game than the five year average of 38.4 MPG he played in the previous five years before coming to Boston

He's only averaging 37.5 MPG during a month in which the team has been decimated by injuries

He's a superb athlete, regardless of age maybe the second best on the team after Rondo, and playing an extra 2 minutes per game on average during a month in which his team needs him isn't going to kill him

[Drucci]

But I don't understand.  Why is he overplaying the oldest player on the team!?  It's obvious that the defense is better when Tony plays, and the offense doesn't seem to suffer because while he can't shoot, he can score. It's so obvious, but Doc can't see it? Even when Ray's playing terrible and Tony's playing decent, he doesn't bring in Tony for Ray.

I can't understand it either. I think it has to do with the spacing that Ray brings to the team's offense. Doc loves to have 3 point shooters on the court.

I can understand his reluctance to play Tony but so far he's been productive on both ends this year so...

And what bugs me is that Ray is getting older year after year and yet Doc plays him the same amount of minutes, if not more as each season goes on.

I clearly hope that Marquis' return will change that situation but frankly I doubt it. Doc has shown that he never changes his habits. I guess the only way to convince him to reduce Ray's minutes would be that Ray gets a major knee injury like KG.

Plamb > a 2 minutes per game addition for a month seems like no big deal but we know this will  go on for the rest of the season, and it makes a lot of minutes added to his career's minutes, so it's really a bad thing.

I don't care about a 2 minutes differential, the point is Ray shouldn't be playing 36 minutes per game, with consecutive 40+ minutes in January, when he is 34 years old and you have a decent backup to rest him. 30 or 32 minutes per game would be perfect.

[moiso]

Doc is overplaying Ray (another 40+ minutes game yesterday) and this needs to stop right now.

The problem is, even when Tony is effective, Doc still plays Ray because of the spacing he brings to the team's offense.

And I think Ray asks to stay in the game almost all the time, and Doc just can't tell him "no".

That's a concern. If Ray is tired for the playoffs, we will be in trouble because we need everybody to contribute. Not to mention that playing him heavy minutes for the next 4 months could injure him.

Ray is the Celtic who logs the more minutes this season and yet Doc doesn't seem to realize that it's a terrible mistake of coaching.

I hope Marquis' return will make him rest Ray more and play Marquis more minutes but he didn't do it early in the season when Marquis was healthy and I don't see him doing it now either, alas.

Ray is playing 6 seconds more per game than last year, 36 seconds per game more than in 2007-08, but is playing 1 minute and 48 seconds less per game than the five year average of 38.4 MPG he played in the previous five years before coming to Boston

He's only averaging 37.5 MPG during a month in which the team has been decimated by injuries

He's a superb athlete, regardless of age maybe the second best on the team after Rondo, and playing an extra 2 minutes per game on average during a month in which his team needs him isn't going to kill him

only 37.5mpg?  Thats a lot for a 34 year old shooting guard on a playoff bound team.  And he should be playing less than he did the last two years as he gets older.

[More Banners]

A good way, and the only way, to tell when a player is playing too many minutes is this:

Is the other team totally smoking him?  If yes, then get him off the floor, no matter what his name is.

[Greenbean]

Ray Allen is in a shooting slump and thats the bottom line. It has been going on for a while but I have NOT noticed a decline in any of the athletic aspects of his game. So since he is not "declining" he must continue to get the minutes that he does.

I would love to spend an entire day breaking down film of the offense with RA in there vs. TA. Tony can score but Ray allows this team to have spacing and move the ball effectively.

Ray getting 30 minutes plus as a 6th man is a really good idea but Ray is strictly a product of his routine and I would think he would need a looong transitioning period to get used to coming off the bench.

[Bankshot]

Ray Allen is in a shooting slump and thats the bottom line. It has been going on for a while but I have NOT noticed a decline in any of the athletic aspects of his game. So since he is not "declining" he must continue to get the minutes that he does.

I would love to spend an entire day breaking down film of the offense with RA in there vs. TA. Tony can score but Ray allows this team to have spacing and move the ball effectively.

Ray getting 30 minutes plus as a 6th man is a really good idea but Ray is strictly a product of his routine and I would think he would need a looong transitioning period to get used to coming off the bench.

Again, this is not about Ray coming off the bench, just playing less minutes.